Posted on Dec 9, 2019
PFC PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
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I have a question, I've recently gotten an company grade article 15 at my first duty station. For my punishment, I received 14 days extra duty, demotion of rank from E3 to E2 and 45 days of suspended restrictions. This happened on November 22nd 2019, it is now December 9th 2019. In the last week of December i am supposed to be automatically promoted to SPC for reaching my TIS and TIG, my unit has yet to change my rank on my ERB. I've already completed my extra duty, what happens next? Do I wait and see if ill get my SPC automatically after my flag is lifted or do I tell my unit that they did not change my rank from E3 to E2 on my ERB ?
Posted in these groups: 111011 f jf989 002 Article 15Rank Rank9202ff71 PFCArmy usa or 02.svg PV2
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MSgt George Fillgrove
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Edited 6 y ago
I wouldn't push my luck, if I were you. You have been formally punished. Don't bring attention to yourself by inquiring.

Believe me. There is/will be a roster that is sent to your orderly room. Your first sergeant, platoon leader and your company commander will be tasked with the determination if you are eligible for promotion or rank reinstatement. Don't be surprised if your name has already been red-lined and the appropriate forms or annotations made to change the ERB.

You've also lost your Good Conduct Medal for this period. The eligibility date will be adjusted accordingly.

So, instead, I recommend that you bring attention to yourself by reversing the behavior that resulted in the demotion. You are being watched. Show that you are both deserving and worthy. Then let the promotions take their course.
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Sgt Field Radio Operator
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SSG Brian Wilber
SSG Brian Wilber
>1 y
PFC Jeffrey Herrington - There are only two Art. 15s that don't follow you, a Summarized Art. 15, or one in which you were exonerated. (Yes, that does happen.)
Also, boards don't use the absence of GCM's as an indicator of Art. 15s. In case you aren't aware, S1 is human and as such they are prone to errors. In my case, I had almost seven years TIS when I went before the board and no GCM due to errors made in Personnel. I got it corrected, but only after being promoted. The board did/could not hold it against me that I didn't have one, because the issue was brought to their attention during the records review.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Company grade Article 15 maximum punishments are: 14 Days ED, 14 Days restrictions and 1 grade reduction. It is the Field Grade that gives the 45 days.

If you received a suspension of punishment, right now I wouldn't press the luck of asking about your SPC advancement.

If you were dropped from E3 to E2, trust in the system that your ERB will be reflected correctly very soon. Also, you will not be getting SPC at the end of December, since your TIG requirements will start over from the effective DOR of the reduction.
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SSG Brian Wilber
SSG Brian Wilber
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PFC Jeffrey Herrington - I don't know where you are getting your information from, but I know it's not from any AR's. Once non-judicial punishment is set forth, all parties are bound by it, unless appealed. If appealed and upheld, then all parties are bound by it, including the commander who set the punishment. If the restriction is suspended for 45 days, and the SM serves the 45 days without a problem, he or she cannot then say, I want more time to enforce this.
I think you might be one of those barracks lawyers you were talking about.
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MSG Gary Eckert
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Your post concerning the suspended restrictions is confusing. Unless you are in one those rare Companies where the Commander is a field grade officer then you could not have gotten 45 days of restriction. I think you might be saying all of your punishment was suspended for 45 days. If so the you will be flagged an until after the suspension is complete. If that is not what you are trying to say and you were reduced without a suspension, then you DOR for PV2 is 22 Nov. When you are promoted back to PFC then you will have a new DOR and you TIG will start from that point.
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PFC PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
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im wearing a pv2 rank, they never took the rank off my chest themselves , he just said he was demoting me from Pfc to pv2, he then dismissed me and I changed the rank myself
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MSG Gary Eckert
MSG Gary Eckert
6 y
Someone should have given you a copy of your Article 15 (that is the demotion paperwork.) The punishment should be spelled out. It sounds like you have 14 days of restriction suspended until 6 Jan. Without seeing the Article 15, I can't tell if the reduction has been suspended, too. The legal clerk, should have provided the personnel guys in the S1 the Article 15 and that should resulted in your personnel records being updated, if required. Don't worry though, even if they missed it, someone will catch it when they work the next C10 roster (or whatever roster has replaced it to determine who is eligible for promotion in a unit.) You have been paid as an E3 at least once since the Article 15, when the reduction transaction is submitted, the Army will re-coop the over payment.
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SSG Brian Wilber
SSG Brian Wilber
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MSG Gary Eckert - I am sure he means that the restriction was suspended. That being the case, the flag by regulation cannot be lifted until the period of suspension is served, so he can forget the auto promotion anyway.
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SSG Brian Wilber
SSG Brian Wilber
>1 y
PFC (Join to see) - Even though they did not remove the rank themselves, if you did not appeal the Article 15, you are in violation of Art. 134 by wearing a rank you are not authorized to wear and they could slap you with another Article 15 for that.
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What happens with my automatic promotion to SPC if my demotion tp PV2 does not reflect on my ERB?
SSG Brian G.
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Ok, you got a company grade Art 15, got told you were demoted from E-3 to E-2 and that you had 14 days extra duty, and that anything further ie restricted to barracks was suspended by 45 days and would not happen if you did not screw up for that month and a half. Your demotion has not showed up in the system. Couple of things. Count your blessings.

1. Say nothing, do nothing. You want to be as far below and off your 1SG and CCo's Radar as you possibly can be. Go with what you have, as you have it.

2. Paperwork can be slow. A lot of times it is slow in your detriment, sometimes, like now it is slow in your favor. Accept this, say nothing, do nothing and roll on.

3. You buckle down, keep your mouth shut, do what you are supposed to do, be where you are supposed to be and show them that you are worth keeping in the Army.

4. IF by some miracle you skate through and they forgot to demote you officially, in the system, and you get promoted to E-4, you accept this, say nothing, do nothing and be thankful.

Do not be eager to screw yourself. Right now you are in some limbo area in a wait and see.
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PFC PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
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Thank you . time will tell
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SFC Retention Operations Nco
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What should happen is that your S1 will eventually process your reduction, with your new date of rank effective to the date of your reduction. Even if you were erroneously promoted to SPC it would just be rescinded.
Promotion to E4 is not automatic in that it happens on its own. The commander still has to review the monthly promotion report and approve your promotion, so it won't go unnoticed for very long.
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PFC PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
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oh okay, thank you
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SPC(P) Firefighter
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Listen to everyone here. Take the correction and learn from it.

Also the “automatic” promotion is not automatic at all even for non flagged soldiers. Every months the command team gets reports that shows who is eligible for promotion once they meet TIS/TIG. The commander still has to approve that promotion. With you situation, 1) your TIG resets so it will be a bit before you make it back to that point, 2) Your commander will still need to recommend you for promotion.

Like I said learn from it and focus on improving yourself and preventing this type of situation from happening again. Your focus shouldn’t be on getting promoted, it should be on figure out why you didn’t live up to the values that we all serve by.
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PFC PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
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Interesting to know, you learn something new everyday. Thank you for the response
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SSG Cavalry Scout
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Your time in grade will reset and you will need to complete 6 months before being eligible to pick up PFC again. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that because you meet TIS requirements for E4, that you will automatically get it either. You’re chain of command make that decision if they think you are deserving.
Don’t let this turn you into a shitbag though. I find soldiers tend to check out after losing rank, give 100% effort and be motivated. Show that you can fix yourself because people will notice.
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PFC PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
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In my predicament, anyone could've gotten an article 15, it just so happened to be me lol. Always forward from here. Im just looking to get my flag removed so I can re-enlist.
Thanks for your words
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SSG Cavalry Scout
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That’s what it’s all about. Gives you something to learn from. Getting demoted at your rank won’t hold you back too much compared to when you become an NCO.
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1SG Dennis Hicks
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Keeping this short, you are currently ineligible for promotion to SPC since you are an e-1 and you date of rank starts over from that day you put PVT rank back on. Since you seemed to have screwed up I would make very effort to turn yourself around, not repeat the behavior and become a stellar troop and you can regain your rank and more. This is speaking from personal experience as shown in my profile. I have seen a small selection of troops that screw up move beyond that and do very well in uniform. Commanders and NCO ( I should say MOST Commanders and NCO's) will look at someone who screwed up and say either of two things. Not worth the time and effort to fix or lets give this troop a chance to show what he/she is made of. Back in the day units had many troops that road the rank roller coaster over stupid but costly things. Its a test of what your are made off to drive on beyond this hiccup and show them they are wrong about you. Don't look back except to see where you messed up and move forward so many years from now you can mentor a young troops that screwed up and be an example of both what not to do and how to overcome the natural response of screw this I quit.
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PFC PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
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Always forward
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SGT Infantryman
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Not entirely sure what is supposed to happen but keep an eye on it for yourself. I'm saying this because I had a close friend (PV2) who lost rank a few days before he should have had PFC reflected on his ERB. He got busted down to PVT and had a flag that wasn't taken care of for nearly 2 years. By the time it was fixed he was an E1 for nearly 3 years. If I remember correctly he never wore PFC rank, he went straight to SPC during his last few months in the unit.
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SFC Incheon Airport Jppc Ncoic
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Short answer...if paperwork was not submitted to stop the automatic promotion, you will get promoted to SPC. I’m still kind of confused as to why they didn’t remove your stripe if this was their intent. As previously mentioned in one of the comments, an O-3 can only do 14 days not 45. I hope this helps...
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SPC Stewart Smith
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I've read through the responses and I'll give the best response I can think of:
Did you complete your 'punishment'? Your ART 15 is completed? Have you shown your senior leadership that you, not only completed, the "punishment", but that you also understand your responsibility as a soldier and will do what is required of you without being a complaining blue falcon?
If you completed your punishment, understood that the leadership was not trying to hurt you, but to help you grow and learn from your mistakes, you are keeping a positive attitude, then I feel you should go to your first line supervisor and inquire about your rank. They will let you know. There is paperwork that must be submitted and signed off by the commander. But don't go inquiring if you have done nothing but complain through the entire process. If you have a negative attitude it shows you are not willing to accept responsibility for your actions. Out here in the civilian world, an unfix-able negative attitude constitutes termination. It's too easy to get someone who wants to do the job.
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PFC Ray Aquila
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Naughty, naughty.......Ask and maybe you might receive. Like in school, show some initiative, do extras and see where it leads. You cannot erase what you did. But maybe, they will see, that you learned something and like a good little dooby,sic, you will behave. Good Luck!
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PFC Construction Equipment Repairer
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don't worry about it probably never went through same shit happend to myself.
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PFC Construction Equipment Repairer
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question for ya'll I am currently promotable trying to make points any body know how to make aroud 300 points fast ?
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SSG Religious Affairs Nco
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Edited 6 y ago
In your current state, you are best advised to wear that E2 until further notice. Keep your head low, and do not bring attention to yourself. I got a field grade article 15 some years back when I was an E4. It took me all the way back to E2. I came in as an E3. Stay out of trouble and you will see rank again. Additionally, I met with JAG for one of my soldiers who was questioning a similar issue. It will remain in your record for the next 2 years. Take this as a learning opportunity. They don't disappear once you become an NCO. Your pay will likely answer the rank question for you fairly quickly. Check your next LES. It will advise of your current pay grade.
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PV2 Ross Bryan
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LOL THIS REMINDS ME OF WHEN I WAS IN ARMY RESERVES IN 1963-67!
DUE TO MY EMPLOYMENT I WAS ABLE TO SLIP INTO INACTIVE RESERVES AT THE TIME,BUT HAD TO ATTEND THE 2 WEEKEND MEETINGS BEFORE SUMMER CAMP THEN DO SUMMER CAMP AND THEN WAS BACK INTO INACTIVE!
MY PLATOON SGT RAISED HELL WITH ME AND TOLD ME I WAS BUSTED FROM E-4 BACK TO E-2!!
I THEN REPLIED,
"BIG DEAL, NO ONE EVER TOLD ME I MADE E-4!!"
LOL!
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