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http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/Update-Warrants-Issued-In-Homicide-311771951.html?device=phone&c=y SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" 1LT Sandy Annala PV2 (Join to see) SSG Peter Muse SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas SGT (Join to see) SGT Kristin Wiley SGT Kristin Wiley
Youth
Justice
Murder
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 9
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It is due to our ineffective legal system. Gangs know that juveniles will not be held responsible for their actions so they use the kids as assassins to take out their rivals - and to initiate them into the gangs by making their bones. These three will not likely see much jail time, and will likely be released when they hit 21 (if they are even in jail that long).
Don't you just love liberals/liberalism?
Don't you just love liberals/liberalism?
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SGT Jeremiah B.
Capt Seid Waddell - My post was unnecessarily hostile. Sorry about that. My point still stands though - It's a story about a single event. If you bring up ANY ideological stance, you're blaming. This kind of crap has always happened and will always happen until humans are extinct. Whether we are soft or hard on crime has little demonstrable effect here. Children simply don't think of the consequences that way.
Further, broad societal issues today have more to do with the breakdown of community and idolized individualism than anything Conservatives or Liberals might advocate. BOTH sides forward policies that are unhelpful and both sides have a firm grasp on part of the picture. The more I study both political theories, the more I think the primary difference is the location of the blinders.
Further, broad societal issues today have more to do with the breakdown of community and idolized individualism than anything Conservatives or Liberals might advocate. BOTH sides forward policies that are unhelpful and both sides have a firm grasp on part of the picture. The more I study both political theories, the more I think the primary difference is the location of the blinders.
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Capt Seid Waddell
SGT Jeremiah B., the differences in the conservative and liberal ideologies are quite significant. Conservatives think that the individual is responsible for their own outcomes in life and liberals think that it is government’s responsibility to take care of them when things don’t work out. There are consequences that follow each ideology.
It is the difference between being an adult and being a child in one’s thinking, IMHO. Childish wishful thinking always results in unfortunate outcomes while those that take the initiative and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps tend to have better results.
Policies driven by liberal ideology always end with disastrous results. Detroit and pre-Katrina New Orleans are two perfect examples of liberal dysfunction. Also, our educational system has been run by liberals for five decades at least, and is failing us in every metric.
Our “catch and release” legal system is another example of the failure of the liberal ideology that refuses to hold perpetrators responsible for their crimes – so the perps see no reason to change their behavior. One good example of this is the illegal alien felon released by San Francisco police even though ICE had requested that they notify them if he was released so that he could be deported (for a sixth time). The liberal administration of SF has declared that it is a “sanctuary city” and refuses to cooperate with the Federal government. This felon was released and killed a young woman with a gun stolen from a law enforcement officer’s car.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/03/us/san-francisco-killing-suspect-immigrant-deported/
This is typical liberal “thinking” to be more concerned with consideration for the lawbreaker than with the safety of the public.
If one does not hold people responsible for their own behavior there is no reason for them to correct destructive behavior, and it is easier for them to just expect the government to make it right for them no matter what they choose to do.
It is the difference between being an adult and being a child in one’s thinking, IMHO. Childish wishful thinking always results in unfortunate outcomes while those that take the initiative and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps tend to have better results.
Policies driven by liberal ideology always end with disastrous results. Detroit and pre-Katrina New Orleans are two perfect examples of liberal dysfunction. Also, our educational system has been run by liberals for five decades at least, and is failing us in every metric.
Our “catch and release” legal system is another example of the failure of the liberal ideology that refuses to hold perpetrators responsible for their crimes – so the perps see no reason to change their behavior. One good example of this is the illegal alien felon released by San Francisco police even though ICE had requested that they notify them if he was released so that he could be deported (for a sixth time). The liberal administration of SF has declared that it is a “sanctuary city” and refuses to cooperate with the Federal government. This felon was released and killed a young woman with a gun stolen from a law enforcement officer’s car.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/03/us/san-francisco-killing-suspect-immigrant-deported/
This is typical liberal “thinking” to be more concerned with consideration for the lawbreaker than with the safety of the public.
If one does not hold people responsible for their own behavior there is no reason for them to correct destructive behavior, and it is easier for them to just expect the government to make it right for them no matter what they choose to do.
Suspect in San Francisco woman's death deported 5 times - CNN.com
The man accused of shooting and killing a San Francisco woman had previously been deported five times, ICE says.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
Capt Seid Waddell - Don't misunderstand me. I know there are significant differences between the two. The point, and your metaphor illustrated it quite nicely, is that both sides grab some concepts very well but seem to completely miss or dismiss others.
It isn't "Adults vs Children." It's two varied ideas on the most effective way of bringing about human flourishing. One side, in its extreme form, thinks the government can solve all of our problems and our problems will just go away if we create broad reaching social programs that take care of our needs. The other thinks that everything boils down to personal responsibility to the point that if you're poor, it's because you deserve it and that businesses are totally rational actors that don't have a well-established history of exploiting everything for the profit of a few. Both have fair points, but I don't think it's an either/or proposition.
Some things the government CAN do best and one thing I've learned volunteering in India and talking to friends that work with the poor here - The problems are more structural and the way out less "boot strappy" than a lot of Conservatives want to admit.
On the other hand, things like welfare and over-regulation can create dependence and stifle innovation. Bureaucrats can be mindless routine followers or drunk on power. Bad regulations can sink economies faster than good ones can help grow them. Governments can create as many problems as they solve.
This is why, though I readily admit to being Left-leaning, I'm beginning to hate the "Stupid Liberals/Conservatives!" approach. It distills extremely complex problems and solutions down to single points of blame, which rarely have ANY basis in reality. In many cases, it's a bunch of stuff that doesn't fit in a Left/Right dichotomy unless you shoehorn it in. I think binary thinking blinds us to reality.
It isn't "Adults vs Children." It's two varied ideas on the most effective way of bringing about human flourishing. One side, in its extreme form, thinks the government can solve all of our problems and our problems will just go away if we create broad reaching social programs that take care of our needs. The other thinks that everything boils down to personal responsibility to the point that if you're poor, it's because you deserve it and that businesses are totally rational actors that don't have a well-established history of exploiting everything for the profit of a few. Both have fair points, but I don't think it's an either/or proposition.
Some things the government CAN do best and one thing I've learned volunteering in India and talking to friends that work with the poor here - The problems are more structural and the way out less "boot strappy" than a lot of Conservatives want to admit.
On the other hand, things like welfare and over-regulation can create dependence and stifle innovation. Bureaucrats can be mindless routine followers or drunk on power. Bad regulations can sink economies faster than good ones can help grow them. Governments can create as many problems as they solve.
This is why, though I readily admit to being Left-leaning, I'm beginning to hate the "Stupid Liberals/Conservatives!" approach. It distills extremely complex problems and solutions down to single points of blame, which rarely have ANY basis in reality. In many cases, it's a bunch of stuff that doesn't fit in a Left/Right dichotomy unless you shoehorn it in. I think binary thinking blinds us to reality.
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Capt Seid Waddell
SGT Jeremiah B., there is no hope of fixing problems if we do not address the nature of the problem and call it what it is. Liberal ideology fails to account for the reality of the situations it addresses or to take into account human nature - and as a result the liberal policies always result in disasters to those they seek to help due to their unanticipated consequences. Good intentions are not sufficient when they hurt those they try to help.
The school of hard knocks is harsh because we get the test first and the lesson later. But as harsh as it is, it is necessary for obtaining good (or at least better) results.
If people blow off their schooling, dabble in intoxicants of any nature, engage in dysfunctional anti-social behavior, and do not have good work habits and integrity they are going to have poor outcomes regardless of what the government does to help them.
I believe that the prevalence of liberal ideology is responsible for much of the decline we have seen over the past half-century since the counter-culture of the '60s threw off the restraints of self-discipline and brought us the hedonism of the "Me" generation.
I grew up as a child of the ‘40s and ‘50s, and have seen the destructive changes take place. You grew up when the counterculture was the norm, and clearly have a different POV from mine. You did not see what the society was like before the left did its magic on this country. I have seen the destructiveness of the left up close and personal.
The ‘60s split my family down the middle according to birth order; the three older are traditionalists and the three younger are hippies. We might as well have grown up on different planets to see how we live and to hear us talk.
Liberalism is a cultural pathology, IMHO.
The school of hard knocks is harsh because we get the test first and the lesson later. But as harsh as it is, it is necessary for obtaining good (or at least better) results.
If people blow off their schooling, dabble in intoxicants of any nature, engage in dysfunctional anti-social behavior, and do not have good work habits and integrity they are going to have poor outcomes regardless of what the government does to help them.
I believe that the prevalence of liberal ideology is responsible for much of the decline we have seen over the past half-century since the counter-culture of the '60s threw off the restraints of self-discipline and brought us the hedonism of the "Me" generation.
I grew up as a child of the ‘40s and ‘50s, and have seen the destructive changes take place. You grew up when the counterculture was the norm, and clearly have a different POV from mine. You did not see what the society was like before the left did its magic on this country. I have seen the destructiveness of the left up close and personal.
The ‘60s split my family down the middle according to birth order; the three older are traditionalists and the three younger are hippies. We might as well have grown up on different planets to see how we live and to hear us talk.
Liberalism is a cultural pathology, IMHO.
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“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.”
― Socrates
In truth, the only thing that has changed is the 24x7x365 news need for something to fill the space. This stuff has always happened .. it's just now you are actually hearing about it.
― Socrates
In truth, the only thing that has changed is the 24x7x365 news need for something to fill the space. This stuff has always happened .. it's just now you are actually hearing about it.
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When there are two family incomes and single parent homes, the children are entrusted to the bureaucracy. The progressives have been trying to destroy the family for a long time. It appears their plan is coming to fruition.
"Education should aim at destroying free will so that after pupils are thus schooled they will be incapable throughout the rest of their lives of thinking or acting otherwise than as their school masters would have wished ... The social psychologist of the future will have a number of classes of school children on whom they will try different methods of producing an unshakable conviction that snow is black. Various results will soon be arrived at: first, that influences of the home are 'obstructive' and verses set to music and repeatedly intoned are very effective ... It is for the future scientist to make these maxims precise and discover exactly how much it costs per head to make children believe that snow is black. When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for more than one generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen."
Bertrand Russell quoting Johann Gottlieb Fichte, the head of philosophy & psychology who influenced Hegel and others – Prussian University in Berlin, 1810
"Education should aim at destroying free will so that after pupils are thus schooled they will be incapable throughout the rest of their lives of thinking or acting otherwise than as their school masters would have wished ... The social psychologist of the future will have a number of classes of school children on whom they will try different methods of producing an unshakable conviction that snow is black. Various results will soon be arrived at: first, that influences of the home are 'obstructive' and verses set to music and repeatedly intoned are very effective ... It is for the future scientist to make these maxims precise and discover exactly how much it costs per head to make children believe that snow is black. When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for more than one generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen."
Bertrand Russell quoting Johann Gottlieb Fichte, the head of philosophy & psychology who influenced Hegel and others – Prussian University in Berlin, 1810
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I REALLY believe Babies are raising Babies, SSG Trust Palmer
IT's this generation of wants and EVERYTHING is owned to them type of personality. I just don't understand. And by the look of that picture, you wouldn't think that kiddo would've done anything like that. Maybe moms or dad was in the gang as well. This is just a very sad situation.
IT's this generation of wants and EVERYTHING is owned to them type of personality. I just don't understand. And by the look of that picture, you wouldn't think that kiddo would've done anything like that. Maybe moms or dad was in the gang as well. This is just a very sad situation.
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SSG Trust Palmer We really don't know why they committed the crime. The news is speculating that it may have been a set up or drug related. The facts will come out later. The bottom-line is we have a problem in this country with youths getting involved with gangs, drugs, and guns at a very early age. This is a problem we haven't been able to fix in our country. We now have generations of youth coming from gang related and drug related parents and families and unfortunately that cycle is continuing. I don't know the answers, but it is something we need to concentrate on as a society and try and fix. There are still a lot of great parents out there, even in the inner cities that have brought their children up under strict guidelines and helped them break the cycle of violence. We need to find a way to help the single parents that provide that level of discipline because they are just trying to survive themselves. This is a much greater problem to work on then the Confederate Flag issue. My 2 cents for the day!
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I'm retired Counselor/Teacher, 38 years, It is a complex problem, however the computer & media are a large part in changing our society. No longer are young people connecting with others, face-to-face, they go home after school and enter their fantasy world on the computer, they cannot separate reality from fantasy, a lot of the games they play are all focused on violence, the media focus on violence daily for ratings. There are other factors involved, parents working long hours, no family time, no parent interaction, this is also contributing to health factors, overweight due to non-activity, poor eating habits, fast food daily. That also effects their brain activity, sugar is a major factor. I did my Master Thesis on that topic, how nutrition affects behavior, a complex issue for a complex society.
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Parents. You gotta KNOW what your kids are doing, you have to know the people they're hanging out with, and if your kids' friends have parents too busy to do that then you have to step in and be a positive influence in their lives.
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SSG Trust Palmer
Right on SPC David Hannaman but this isn't always the problem. Kids lie and hide things all of the time. These kids nowadays make fake accounts and are able to get phone apps and so much more. I do agree with you about being more involved in their lives. That is a step in the right direction.
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SSG Trust Palmer, I realize you would have to view information about the case but how to you feel about charging them as adults? Should we bee quick to throw them to the wolves? Can they be rehabbed?
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SSG Trust Palmer
SSG (ret) William Martin Let me go back and view this again. I forgot about this post. Sorry about that.
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This is the result of the destruction of the "family" and "religion" in America. With some 52% of all black children living in a single family home this is very problematic for the black community. Conservatives are more likely to value teaching religious faith and obedience. Liberals are more likely to value teaching tolerance, empathy for others, curiosity and creativity. Conservatives often hold positions aligned with their religious values, such as opposition to abortion, and liberals are often express the need for public policy to show empathy for others, such as aid to the poor. While both seem as positives the big differences is in "family values". There appears to be a connection between strong adherence and practice of a traditional religious faith and a lower divorce rate. So when looking at this as a political party issue the conservative approach is the better of the two ideologies in ebbing the decay in the inner cities. However the liberal ideology is preferred often in the high crime areas due to poor economic conditions. The liberal approach is acting as an enabler exasperating the conditions of economic inequality, gangs and teen violence. I'm sure this will ruffle the feathers of liberals, however the correlation between religion, single parent homes and gang violence is well known yet the problem persists. The drift between the affluent and poverty stricken communities widens every day with each black-on-black murder. The problem is you need some injection or capital as well as some strong organized local action. Honestly all the political rhetoric is in the same vain as sitting in a stalled out car waiting for a push on an empty tank. One side yelling to put the gas in while the other side is complaining about the push. The sad thing is this is not about a stranded driver its about real lives with very little hope in seeing change.
- Over the past thirty years, the rise in violent crime parallels the rise in families abandoned by fathers.
- High-crime neighborhoods are characterized by high concentrations of families abandoned by fathers.
- State-by-state analysis by Heritage scholars indicates that a 10 percent increase in the percentage of children living in single-parent homes leads typically to a 17 percent increase in juvenile crime.
- The rate of violent teenage crime corresponds with the number of families abandoned by fathers.
- Even in high-crime inner-city neighborhoods, well over 90 percent of children from safe, stable homes do not become delinquents. By contrast only 10 percent of children from unsafe, unstable homes in these neighborhoods avoid crime.
Also
- Neighborhoods with a high degree of religious practice are not high-crime neighborhoods
- Over the past thirty years, the rise in violent crime parallels the rise in families abandoned by fathers.
- High-crime neighborhoods are characterized by high concentrations of families abandoned by fathers.
- State-by-state analysis by Heritage scholars indicates that a 10 percent increase in the percentage of children living in single-parent homes leads typically to a 17 percent increase in juvenile crime.
- The rate of violent teenage crime corresponds with the number of families abandoned by fathers.
- Even in high-crime inner-city neighborhoods, well over 90 percent of children from safe, stable homes do not become delinquents. By contrast only 10 percent of children from unsafe, unstable homes in these neighborhoods avoid crime.
Also
- Neighborhoods with a high degree of religious practice are not high-crime neighborhoods
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