Posted on Mar 21, 2014
What is the best way for a new 2LT to counsel a platoon sergeant?
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One of the biggest challenges for a brand new 2LT is his first counseling session with a SFC who has been in the Army from 8-14 years. While the blanket list of duties that I used in 1995 is pretty straight forward, I don't think it's conducive to building the team necessary to effectively lead a platoon from the get-go. What have you seen that works best?
Counseling
2LT
Platoon Leader
Platoon Sergeant
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 101
Sir, I believe the approach can be generally the same as most initial counseling; "Here is what you can expect from me..." and "Here is what I expect from you..." -- I think what really matters is the tone...<div><br></div><div>If the 2LT is coming in with "I'm just the 2LT, I expect to just basically watch you for a while, and gee whiz, I sure hope to learn!" -- Then the Platoon Sergeant will know that he's got some summer help until the next Platoon Leader.</div><div><br></div><div>If the 2LT is coming in with "I am new and don't have your experience, but I'm a quick learner and I need you to help turn me into the Platoon Leader you always thought this Platoon deserved... let's work together." -- Then the Platoon Sergeant should feel encouraged that he has a leader on his team. </div><div><br></div><div>Just my personal opinion. </div>
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MSgt Brian Duchscherer
Right they need to work together as a team from the start, they both have a job to do and the end result it to make the platoon the best they can together. If the Sgt has 8-14 years of experience, use it to his advantage, and couple it with his officer training.
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SFC (Join to see)
Sir, that's amazing advice. I will actually take that and use it in 2 years when I commission!
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SFC Larry Triplett
I will work with any new officer that is new, I always have told a new LT, that I have a lot of experience in the maintenance field. Sir if you want to learn about you equipment and maintenance I will teach you all you need to know. LT the Soldiers will respect your rank, if you want them to respect you as a person you have to earn that respect. LT my Grandfather all ways told me Son Respect is not given to a person, you have to earn that Respect. LT lets take a 25 cent tour around the motor-pool and explain how things work. I will introduce you to the Mechanics and Platoon Sergeants , if you have any questions please ask me.
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with all the great advice in this thread, I'm just going add one more...
Do it with respect.
Do it with respect.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
I think some NCO could right a book about the care and feeding of a 2nd LT. Personally I think you have to have 'open dialog", we all understand chain of command, as CPT Morris stated RESPECT one and other.
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CAPT Dave Woodard
I was going to say - "with respect and caution". Regularly, respectfully, and hoping he/she will drop some pearly the 2nd LT can use
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How can someone new to the army counsel a seasoned vet? They can't provide mentorship. They need to outline facts based on commanders guidance. They need to steer away from "I wants". It's tough. But they also can't let the PSG bully them. They've been chosen to lead. So as a 2lt, they must be willing to learn as well. I only had one 2lt who meshed with me. The others were challenging. Funny how the one who meshed with me has been successful and the others,,, not so much. He didn't back down either. There were times i was wrong and he had to call me out on it. A good command team is a hard thing to come by. Wish there was a way that you can write a book that had all the answers.
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1SG(P) (Join to see)
Whenever we get a new PL, I bring them in and talk to them after they speak to the CO. I always tell them that they are in charge of the platoon and not to ever doubt that and that they need to make that known to their PSG and junior NCOs, but that he or she will be better off if they're willing to convey that they are willing to talk to and listen to those NCOs and discuss decisions with his PSG whenever possible, before he makes them, and to consider his advice and understand that it will be based upon experience. I explain that they should be a team with one voice, but two different minds willing to talk to each other. I then tell them if anything is ever in question, my door is always open and let them know that they can always ask me questions so that they're not always asking the CO or their PSG what should be done. NCOs have a responsibility to load up the junior officers tool bag so that they can become the leaders that we want to follow. What a LT learns from his PSG and other NCOs will stick with him or her for the rest of their career, good or bad. An NCO does sometimes have a harder time figuring out the best method of communication with some junior officers, but any good officer will quickly recognize a good NCO and that always makes it easier for them to listen to you. Figure out a way to let them know they're the boss, but help them become a good one by letting them know that you're there to help guide them in the right direction.
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COL (Join to see)
1SG(P) (Join to see), an outstanding point, and sorry it took so long to respond. I need to do a better job of checking my posts once they have gone quiet I guess. I have found that almost all of the officers that make it to Battalion Command had a great first platoon sergeant. Whether they were actually great or if they just worked well as a team, I don't think it matters much. What is instrumental is that the young officer is left understanding that his NCO was the reason for his success and his soldiers were the reason they both succeeded. That builds trust for future work and leadership positions where that bond is mutual and necessary.
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SSG Paul Headlee
Sometimes everything clicks. Most of the time its constant effort on one thing or another. It gets better when the trust is built and justified. That's always about the time one of you is due to PCS.
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Maj Michael Blakemore
This is actually a very important topic and can be pivotal in how young officers grow up and learn to interact with their SNCOs in the long term. I am a bit biased since I was a SNCO before I was a 2nd Lt but the way I approached it was with respect and the intent to learn and grow on both sides. The absolute worst thing the officer can do is come in with no experience or frame of reference and attempt to move all the furniture around. That is true of any rank in any command I have ever been part of. You cannot alienate the people you are in charge of and responsible for and then expect to be recognized as a leader. Conversely the worst thing the SNCO can do is to shut them out and not educate or support their officers. It creates a conflict within the unit, leads to a lack of unity, and a loss of esprit de corps. As a new officer in any command you must establish an open and interactive relationship with your SNCOs. That doesnt matter if you are the CO or 2nd Lt. Ultimately you are in charge and you are responsible, but you cant do anything on your own.
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Sir,
The approach I took is completely unorthodox, but it is a route I recommend for EVERY new 2LT. Being that I come from a military background, I knew that it would not be appropriate to go in and explain my "expectations" due to the fact my knowledge would be unequivocal to the years of experience of the platoon sergeant. Instead, I asked the platoon sergeant for their input on what they thought was working, and what they believed some of the central areas of focus should be within the platoon. We conducted this session together in a dialog. I then used the DA 4856 to ensure everything we discussed was listed and that appropriate actions would be taken. This is definitely a great topic for discussion.
Very Respectfully,
1LT Krohn
The approach I took is completely unorthodox, but it is a route I recommend for EVERY new 2LT. Being that I come from a military background, I knew that it would not be appropriate to go in and explain my "expectations" due to the fact my knowledge would be unequivocal to the years of experience of the platoon sergeant. Instead, I asked the platoon sergeant for their input on what they thought was working, and what they believed some of the central areas of focus should be within the platoon. We conducted this session together in a dialog. I then used the DA 4856 to ensure everything we discussed was listed and that appropriate actions would be taken. This is definitely a great topic for discussion.
Very Respectfully,
1LT Krohn
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COL (Join to see)
That's the best approach I've seen. Asking the platoon sergeant what he thinks is the right first step. From that point on, if he's worth his salt, he will see that a LT is willing to defer to his experience in private while taking on the mantle of platoon leader.
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SSG Paul Headlee
Nice job Sir! Most PSG can handle that level of trust. The ones who can't are the exception.
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LTC Havlorson,
Given that I was on both sides of the counseling coin. I agree with the white board method as I have personally seen that one used on me as a 19K platoon sergeant. However, I was stubborn in my transition, when I became a 2LT and prepared my 1st Platoon Sergeants initial counseling it was horrible. I regret it to this day, because I thought me being a prior E7 there is no way this guy was going to pull the wool over my eyes! Well needless to say it didn't go over well and I lost a lot of respect from him during that counseling. It taught me a valuable lesson in life and I have yet to repeat it.
The platoon sergeant knew I was in charge, but he also knew I needed him more than he needed me. I was in my commanders officer more than I care to admit and that was all due to the initial counseling from the beginning that cost me dearly. He didn't see me as a team player, but a self-serving jerk.
I think a thorough counseling class given by a TAC officer at BOLC would facilitate the basics of how you're to counsel your senior non-commissioned officers. This would at least give them a basic educational understanding, and at least a firm grasp on their responsibilities as a platoon leader.
I was like a bull in a china shop and that method doesn't work! I can't say that enough, you need those Sergeants to develop the team you hope to employ. That was my way, but I can at least admit it.
Good Luck to all you LTs and as always NCOs lead the way.
Given that I was on both sides of the counseling coin. I agree with the white board method as I have personally seen that one used on me as a 19K platoon sergeant. However, I was stubborn in my transition, when I became a 2LT and prepared my 1st Platoon Sergeants initial counseling it was horrible. I regret it to this day, because I thought me being a prior E7 there is no way this guy was going to pull the wool over my eyes! Well needless to say it didn't go over well and I lost a lot of respect from him during that counseling. It taught me a valuable lesson in life and I have yet to repeat it.
The platoon sergeant knew I was in charge, but he also knew I needed him more than he needed me. I was in my commanders officer more than I care to admit and that was all due to the initial counseling from the beginning that cost me dearly. He didn't see me as a team player, but a self-serving jerk.
I think a thorough counseling class given by a TAC officer at BOLC would facilitate the basics of how you're to counsel your senior non-commissioned officers. This would at least give them a basic educational understanding, and at least a firm grasp on their responsibilities as a platoon leader.
I was like a bull in a china shop and that method doesn't work! I can't say that enough, you need those Sergeants to develop the team you hope to employ. That was my way, but I can at least admit it.
Good Luck to all you LTs and as always NCOs lead the way.
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COL (Join to see)
That's some wisdom right there. Can't find it in school. Has to be earned...the hard way.
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Sir, I would offer that the messages the new PL should send are humility and a desire to learn and work as a team. One further point that may not be obvious to a new PL is the importance of his or her relationship with Squad- or Section-leaders.
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COL (Join to see)
Yeah, I missed that in some of my earliest counselings with LT's coming in. Not only the PL/PS connection, but how they delegate their tasks to their SSG's and SGT's. Everyone talks about SSG's and SGT's being robbed of time and responsibility. The best platoons use every single one of their NCO's to the max.
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SSG Paul Headlee
Its huge and can not be overstated. In the field, the PL works directly with the SLs and its got to be seemless.
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On his hands and knees. Just kidding.
I think a senior NCO is going to know what to expect his LT to expect. In my last unit all the four platoons had fairly good interactions but the PSG's didn't hesitate when something notoriously ill advised was about to occur. But it's a respect thing both ways. I think the PSG is good he will mentor the LT and is the LT is good he will take charge of mission planning/ other officer business.
If an officer just lets the PSG run the show they are both wrong.
I think a senior NCO is going to know what to expect his LT to expect. In my last unit all the four platoons had fairly good interactions but the PSG's didn't hesitate when something notoriously ill advised was about to occur. But it's a respect thing both ways. I think the PSG is good he will mentor the LT and is the LT is good he will take charge of mission planning/ other officer business.
If an officer just lets the PSG run the show they are both wrong.
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1SG Dave Arpin
I always enjoyed my counseling sessions with LT's no matter if they were first or second. They usually listened very well:-) That made us a great team:-)
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Sir,
The best way for a platoon leader to have an initial counselling session is to conduct the first session in the presence of the Company Commander as the Senior Rater. The senior rater can guide the initial counselling session and show him how it should be done. Every leader will do it somewhat differently from that point on but 2LT's need a lot of professional development and I think that is a good way to start. From that point platoon leaders need to establish trust and communication with their platoon sergeants. They should make the counselling session a 2 way conversation because that platoon leader will learn much more from that NCO than the NCO will from him. The 2LT should learn everything about him then together they should set goals. Finally, once all of this is set the platoon leader should close any counselling session knowing that he appreciates and will consider the platoon sergeants recommendations on all matters but the platoon leader alone makes the final decision.
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COL (Join to see)
Can't believe I never responded to this posting. Sorry. Doesn't that seem like going to "daddy" for overhead cover? I can see a CPT pulling a PL and a PS in at the same time for "platoon initial counseling," but I was thinking more about a conversation between the new PL and the grizzly SFC.
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Great question - Be prepared, follow the rules, and stick to the basics. Whether event oriented, or performance...
I had to do this (negative event oriented) with an E-7 and an E-6 PSG as a PL, and at least one time at each level of command.
This is hard to do, but we have all had to do such things. I have had amazing NCOs around me my entire career, but unfortunately at each level I have had NCOs that required negative counselings and actions; it is/was never easy, but being prepared was huge help.
This is the standard:
1. Preparing for Counseling:
● Select a suitable location
● Schedule the time
● Notify the subordinate well in advance
● Organize the Information
● Outline the Counseling session components
● Plan your counseling strategy
● Establish the Right Atmosphere
2. Conduct the Counseling Session:
● Opening the session
● Developing the plan of action
● Recording and closing the session
● Follow-up
Remember, only one person is Responsible in every organization.
I had to do this (negative event oriented) with an E-7 and an E-6 PSG as a PL, and at least one time at each level of command.
This is hard to do, but we have all had to do such things. I have had amazing NCOs around me my entire career, but unfortunately at each level I have had NCOs that required negative counselings and actions; it is/was never easy, but being prepared was huge help.
This is the standard:
1. Preparing for Counseling:
● Select a suitable location
● Schedule the time
● Notify the subordinate well in advance
● Organize the Information
● Outline the Counseling session components
● Plan your counseling strategy
● Establish the Right Atmosphere
2. Conduct the Counseling Session:
● Opening the session
● Developing the plan of action
● Recording and closing the session
● Follow-up
Remember, only one person is Responsible in every organization.
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COL (Join to see)
COL Charles Williams, sorry about the response time. I don't know how I missed this one. Straight out of the book. Now these are all bumper stickers as you will find in most places (doctrine). It goes into more detail about every bullet point, but that's what you'd expect from the Army. Can't leave anything to chance. I prefer a more loose approach. A conversation if you will. I guess that gets into "planning your counseling strategy." I'm not a fan of a "plan of action either." My tolerance for ambiguity is very high. I prefer to identify lanes for a team-mate (versus a subordinate) and identify how our two lanes are going to work together and where they will intersect. It is my belief that they should intersect at friction points in the organization. While I prefer that the two (officer and NCO) are complimentary instead of singular (the misguided concept that an officer and his NCO have to be seen together everywhere), I think that it's the job of leadership to find friction points and mass on that location to crush resistance to progress. I like identifying lanes and then setting standards and watching subordinates and teammates succeed in their own ways.
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