Posted on Jan 5, 2014
SSG Robert Burns
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I'm curious to what everyone's own definition of professional is. &nbsp;(Without googling it) &nbsp;What is your honest definition of the word. &nbsp;How do you decide what is and is not professional?<div>For example, some people think hands in pockets is unprofessional vs other who don't. &nbsp;What makes you decide this? &nbsp;What is the basis or standard that you measure professionalism against?</div><div>I think we should have some very interesting and variant responses to this question.</div>
Posted in these groups: 28d14634 NCOESProfessionalism logo Professionalism
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CW2 Humint Technician
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I am more of a relaxed leader.<div><br></div><div>I enforce the regulations, without complaining to my subordinates, but honestly many of them are "stupid". I follow them not because I believe in them but because I believe in my job as an NCO, if that makes sense.</div><div><br></div><div>A high and tight hair cut, keeping hands out of pockets, logos on sunglasses...none of that stupid crap makes a Soldier better or not.</div><div><br></div><div>I had a Soldier that had a within-regulation haircut, albeit longer, and a very high ranking person (I won't point fingers since I'm still in the unit) threatened to bar him from re-enlisting because of the haircut.</div><div><br></div><div>If I ever find myself as a CSM where that is my biggest priority for the day...and I'm deployed and I call for the CSM and 1SG (that would be me) over the emergency base defense net to get them over there to scream at them for 15 minutes about that hair cut, I'm going to retire or shoot myself.</div><div><br></div><div>The things that people think make someone a good/professional Soldier often baffle me.</div><div><br></div><div>To me professional is respectful, great and dedicated at their job, physically fit, competent, and probably most importantly respectful - not to rank but to other human beings, not just superiors, but treating all Soldiers as human beings and adults.</div><div><br></div><div>You talk to some senior leaders and they think professional is a high and tight, short or non-existant sideburns, 300 APFT, and everything else is secondary. And some of these people are the same people that will scream, belittle, and generally stomp over all of their subordinates while claiming THEY are unprofessional for stupid things. Unprofessional is bullying and screaming in my opinion.</div><div><br></div><div>A little quote from Eisenhower:</div><div><br></div><div><div>You don't lead by hitting people over the head - that's assault, not leadership.</div><div><br></div></div><div>Hell I had a senior leader tell me "are you satisfied with scoring a 180 on your APFT?!" Of course my answer was "No" because I love lifting weights and fitness. Their reply was "If you don't like barely meeting the standard on the APFT then why are your sideburns barely meeting the standard!?! Cut your sideburns further!!!"</div><div><br></div><div>So my sideburns, which were about 1/8" above the lower opening of the ear (so "exceeding the standard" by 1/8"), were expect to be now cut to the UPPER opening of the ear, to "exceed" the 670-1 standard and therefore show how professional I am/was.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I can't think of a thought process much more ridiculous than some of those.</div>
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CPT Mike M.
CPT Mike M.
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Someday when I'm in a position where I can semi-hand pick people for certain positions, some of you common sense based guys may be getting RFO for wherever I am!
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CW2 Humint Technician
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Especially if you need intel sir!
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PV2 Senior Web Designer, Web Team Lead
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i think the military need more men like you Cpt Miller!
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SSG Human Resources Specialist
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CW2 (Join to see), when you brought up the issue of sideburns, I recalled an incident with my squad ldr back in 92. One day, he came up to me and said "Garza, you'd look better with a high & tight, you should get it cut", he also had one too. The operative word being 'should' doesn't mean I will. Oh by the way, I had a fresh haircut from 2 days prior and within regs.

In front of my team leader, platoon sgt, I replied "Sergeant, I've budgeted for 2 haircuts a months, and I've used one of those already. If you're willing to pay for it, I'll go to the barber shop right now and get it done." My sqd ldr, tm ldr, plt sgt all looked at me like I just shot the Mother Teresa. Right there and then he whipped out $5(haircuts were $4.50), I took the $5 from his hand said "Roger SGT, moving!" I came back after about 20 minutes with a high and tight.

What I didn't tell him, is that I knew the girl who cuts my hair, she did it for free. Thanks for the $5 and the two free pints of dunkelweizen I didn't have to pay for out of my pocket.
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LTC Joseph Gross
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We shouldn't confuse the fact that we are using professional in both its meanings. We serve in the profession of arms and as such we are professionals. Who actually falls in that category varies with some saying that SSG and above are professionals and others saying SFC, but it still means we are not members of a trade or simply laborers. We have dedicated our lives to a larger funtion. The second usage of the word is not to say one is not a professional Soldier but rather one has violated the norms we have agreed on as members of a profession. Those don't have to be ethical or legal violations but if they are unethical or illegal they most certainly meet the definition of unprofessional. But we have all also known that young officer or young NCO who is doing his initial entry requirement and is then punching out to take his skills to the civilian world. Now that guy can be a professional for no matter how short the period may be, but I'm talking about the one who is just going through the motions. He is the unprofessional without being illegal or unethical. 
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SGT(P) Team Leader
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To me professionalism is how you carry yourself and act.
I go to parade rest for anyone that out ranks me and talk to everyone the way I would like to be talked to. I don't think your hands in your pocket is unprofessional. I wear my uniform correctly and with pride, but my pants may be bloused lower than regulation allows but I still look professional by the way I act and converse.
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SGT(P) Team Leader
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reminder that this is my opinion
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CPT All Source Intelligence
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Yeah, but nothing accentuates the fact that you missed a button on your ACU bottoms more than having your hands shoved into your pockets...especially if you make a fist.  True story.  

[you may now resume your serious conversation]
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SGT(P) Eye Specialist
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The very first impression you make is your appearance. As we continue to transition to a garrison based army this will become more and more of a factor. Attention to detail.
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What is the def. of professional and what is unprofessional? Seems to be pretty subjective based on the responses I read on this site.
SFC Michael Faircloth
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Edited 11 y ago
1). The term professional is a word defined in many ways by different points of view. The first step in understanding professionalism is to narrow the term to what point of view you want to look at it from. We are obviously defining it from a military profession or as LTC Gross put it "a Profession of Arms" point of view. Now we must understand that other professions will have vastly different and varying points of view.

2). In the Profession of arms it is our duty to do things that other Americans would not, or even could not do. We as Americans are taught from childhood to respect the lives and freedoms of others. In turn we want our lives and freedoms respected. This we all know as the "Golden Rule". But our duty as professional soldiers is to; when necessary, infringe in the highest manner possible on another human being's rights. That is by taking their life. Now the duty to lawfully kill another human being is reserved only for the privileged. This is the highest, hardest and most challenging duty that can be given to anyone, and since the beginning of time the Soldier has always owned that duty.

3). Every leader must understand that it takes a certain type of person to be able to lawfully kill another. It is not just about killing though it is also about sacrifice. Because the people that we are duty bound to kill are just as duty bound to whatever beliefs that cause the judgment of their deaths. These people are going to defend their beliefs with deadly force. So we the people selected to carry out the judgment of another man's death must understand that we do this at a risk to our own lives and to the lives of our Brothers around us. It is not until this understanding that we can truly be called Soldiers.

4). The Soldier; not just a person in uniform, but a true Soldier has been found over the years to have certain character traits. These traits in our profession are called "The Army Values". They are; Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage. These values are essential to having the privilege of taking the life of another human being. I'll give you an example. I am a Sci-Fi nerd so I will use Star Wars. Think of the Jedi and why they must be pure. It is because the obligation to the security and welfare of the people they serve has a Dark Side. This "Dark Side" is what we call the easy wrong. It is appealing, it is popular, it is what we think will help us look good in the eyes of our Soldiers.

5). The regulations placed on us as Soldiers are not there to annoy the people who think they know what really being a soldier is about. They are there to measure one's ability to conform to and maintain the Values expected of us as Soldiers. If every Soldier was Loyal, would there be any Bergdahls? If every Soldier understood his obligation to Duty, would there be AWOLS, or prisoner abuse such as Abu Ghraib? If every Soldier had Respect, would the SHARP Program need to exist? If every Soldier provided Selfless Service, would there be a need for Army Team Building? If every Soldier had Integrity, would there be an 8th Troop Leading Procedure? If every Soldier had Honor, would there be punishments for Stolen Valor? And finally if every Soldier had Personal Courage, would I be writing this post right now?

6). So back to the original post's one example of professional, hands in your pocket. Yes it is unprofessional. Standing around with your hands in your pocket makes you look like you don't have anything to do, or that you are to stupid or lazy to find anything to do. There are three types of people; Those Who Make Things Happen, Those Who Watch Things Happen, And Those Who Say, "What Just Happen." Iron Discipline and Training is what makes a Soldier, a killer of men. One who kills for his country not dies for it. Enforcers of Iron Discipline are what soldiers expect from leaders. I would rather my soldiers respect me than like me. Trust me it's not the same thing.

7). Respect doesn't come from treating them kindly. It comes from your ability to lead by example. It comes from your competency level at you Job. It comes from getting your hands dirty because no matter what rank you are Participative Leadership is your primary leadership style. It comes from putting their needs above your own. Being kind and not enforcing standards is selfish. It is your need to be liked, or to be the cool NCO or Officer over the Soldiers need to survive. This is a recipe for writing a lot of letters to loved ones. If that is what you want, then be the Leader who's Soldiers say, "He was so cool he didn't care about any of that stupid Army Stuff." But I want mine to say what a soldier said to CSM (Ret) Purdy when he left 1st Ranger BN, which was, "Sergeant Purdy, I hated to hear you come in, in the morning, and sometimes I just flat hated you, but I would follow you to hell with gasoline drawers on."

8). there are NO I say again NO quotes from any of the GREAT Leaders in history that sound anything like: "I enforce the regulations, without complaining to my subordinates, but honestly many of them are "stupid". I follow them not because I believe in them but because I believe in my job as an NCO, if that makes sense." They sound more like: “We don't rise to the level of our expectations; we fall to the level of our training.”― Archilochos. Or like this: "Victory is reserved for those who are willing to pay its price." - Sun Tzu

9). I really hope you understand at least my point of view on MILITARY, NOT CIVILIAN Professionalism, you may not agree but, that is your right. Of which real Soldiers have fought and died for. To the originator of this discussion I hope that was interesting enough for you.
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SSG Tim Everett
SSG Tim Everett
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Oh my. This was an outstanding response. Thank you! I may have to print this out and frame it, if you don't mind.
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SFC Michael Faircloth
SFC Michael Faircloth
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You are more than welcome to
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SSG Robert Burns
SSG Robert Burns
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Awesome diatribe.
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SFC Patrick R. Weston, MPH
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As a SOF professional, my answer may be different and possibly even inflammatory to some. A professional, in my opinion, is someone who shows up, ready to go with their personal feelings and judgements in their back pocket. They execute whatever tasks that require accomplishment and do so without needing to be told. A professional may even see another issue or deficiency or an improvement along the way towards mission accomplishment, stop and address the issue and then "charlie mike" without breaking stride.

I do not believe that a Professional has to look a certain way, as they may find themselves in a variety of environments as we often do on the SOF side of things, but their appearance is neat and within the confines of governing regulation, they hold themselves with a quiet dignity and are never condescending in their manner to subordinates or lay-persons and demonstrate equal deference to all they encounter.
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SSG Robert Burns
SSG Robert Burns
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Very well said.
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1SG Shane Hansen
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Sir,

The term "unprofessional" takes on a different meaning than the root word "professional".  Dictionary.com defines unprofessional as the following:

 

1. not professional; not pertaining to or characteristic of a profession.

 

2. at variance with or contrary to professional standards or ethics; not befitting members of a profession, as language, behavior, or conduct.

 

In my opinion, based on that 2nd definition, I would say it is being used correctly as we do not want a bunch of misbehaver's amongst the ranks in the military.  That type of behavior goes against the ethics and desired conduct of our profession.

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LTC Program Manager
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So they are using the base word in the definition.  What I hear you saying is what I am pointing out.  Soldiers are using the term "unprofessional" when what they are really trying to describe is unethical or misconduct or misbehavior.
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1SG Shane Hansen
1SG Shane Hansen
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Sir, unethical behavior or misconduct is "unprofessional" in our profession.  Our profession is based on the Army values and if a Soldier does something contradictary, than it is unprofessional.  Again, this is just my opinion and how I feel about it.  I think it really depends on how you define our profession and the ethics and codes of our profession on whether or not an act is unprofessional for a Soldier.

I personally love hearing it used, it means that my Soldiers actually are resolute in the fact that they serve in the profession of arms.

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MAJ Knowledge Management Specialist
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Sir, you are probably right.  I have never seen the Army actually define the work "professional."  It seems that it is just assumed that everyone knows what it is.  Kind of like not being able to completely describe right, but knowing what right looks like.

It's something so basic, that the definition piece has been overlooked.
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SSG Robert Webster
SSG Robert Webster
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Sir, you are incorrect.  The Army has defined the word "professional" many times in what I would consider the recent past.  This discussion about service in the Armed Forces being a "profession" has been going on longer than I can remember.  In one of the courses from the early 1990's in the Infantry Advanced Non Commissioned Officers Course, there was a class on this very subject. It seems to me that if you have not seen it defined in any Army publication that would seem to be part of a Required Reading List, then some where along the way in the past 18 years since I have retired, our educators, commanders and leaders have failed in their job.
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MAJ Infantry Officer
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I think this is a very good question, and you are right there will be many different answers.  It may be easier to define what is UNprofessional opposed to what IS professional.
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1SG Visual Information Operations Chief
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This question is like asking NCOs what is consider faddish. All of them will have a different answer. 
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SSG Robert Burns
SSG Robert Burns
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I know some Senior NCO's who consider a super high and tight unprofessional.
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SSG Robert Burns
SSG Robert Burns
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Asking the definition of a word is vague?
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SSG Robert Burns
SSG Robert Burns
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Ok gotcha.  Im following way too many threads and sometimes I get confused.
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SSG Robert Reynolds
SSG Robert Reynolds
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Professionalism is an honest effort to bring about the maximum gains to the mission and troops.

Unprofessionalism is merely a concentrated effort to use the mission and troops for personal gratification.

Identify the direction of one's energy expended and you will know the nature and mindset of the individual.
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Maj Assistant Director Of Operations, Integration
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First, know your job and do it well. Professionalism is following the standards and balancing those with the situation. Practicing tact to always be truthful. Listening to your troops when they voice a concern and correcting them, when needed. It's the ability to know your troops in order to hold them accountable while understanding when they may be struggling. Quiet, honest, humble, knowledgeable, may be some traits used to label those exhibiting high degrees of professionalism.
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SSG Mike Angelo
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Edited 11 y ago
At this point in my life, I ask myself what can I live with or without. We all go through some sort of Spring cleaning, however we are creatures of habit. With these habits, we bring a social and emotional part of ourselves to the table.

To be professional is to ask the same question; what can I live with or without?
Then I can ask; where is my moral compass pointing to?

For decisions I ask myself, am I consulting the team for the greater good or am I making the executive decision because I am in charge? When I was in the military, being a leader too can be a lonely job and it requires those hard decisions, good, bad or indifferent.

In those cases, I have made my decision and stuck by them. I have learned that changing a decision in mid stride confuses people. Learning from mistakes is part of the leadership process.

Like marching troops, follow your own steps in cadence and everybody will follow too, eventually. They may growl when your step is not consistent with theirs but nevertheless, those marching troops are in charge of the formation being led.

Out in civilian life, moreover I need to keep a lid on my military leadership style and adapt to whatever the free society norms are.
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SSG Robert Burns
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Edited 11 y ago
Sir, may I pose a question?  Can you be professional without having a profession? 
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SPC Christopher Smith
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Yes,
One can be professional without being in a profession. The term professional covers those who are in a profession, and the ideal way a person carries themselves in a work place (my opinion without looking up the definition, trying to play by the rules).

Example: A Pastor is a Professional under Theology, and he lives (usually) under that image.
The Cashier at McDonalds should have a professional status under the guidelines of the company culture, although it is not a lifestyle.
(Again examples made up with no research, this is harder than it sounded.)
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SSG (ret) William Martin
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The act of being "professional" or "unprofessional" can be based from interpretation.  Simply laughing loudly in uniform in the commissary with my wife might be considered "unprofessional" to a person who thinks nothing is funny and everything is serious.  I was once told my made-into-shorts FR ACU shorts by a professional tailor were unprofessional while wearing a shirt with Jimi Hendrix on the front was unprofessional by a Private who I quickly admonished. 
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LTC Program Manager
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Exactly.  Soldiers don't like something and so they throw out the word unprofessional and watch other soldiers immediately get defensive but they don't really know what they are getting defensive about other than their belief that the word unprofessional has a negative connotation to it.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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Simple. Technical and tactical competence.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
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Is that not one of our Leadership traits? That's one of those inherent aspects of our job.. 
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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Let's not let JJDIDTIEBUCKLE die forgotten and alone...

 

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SFC Terry Wilcox
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Some time ago a judge stated he could not legally define PORN - but that he knew porn when he saw it. The same thing with Professional and UNprofessional. Many things in life are subjective, it takes a moment to decide which side of the line you are standing on.
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LTC Lee Bouchard
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Edited >1 y ago
Excellent question SSG Burns

Some years ago I ran across an article on this topic written in the Harvard Business Review. The author was the Dean of the Masters Program at Harvard and had this to say. (Summarized key points) To be considered a "professional organization" and a member of such, three things must be in place.
1. There must be a requirement for members to have an education or specialized training that is not otherwise available to the general public.
2. Members are required to take an oath (ie. office, allegiance)
3. A professional organization must be self policing. (Be able to police itself within)
Members of the U.S. Military can be considered professionals and members of a professional organization using the above definition. Ultimately, it is up to the individual and in the manner in which they conduct themselves.
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1SG Steven Stankovich
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I define being professional as constantly doing the right thing in both word and deed.


I keep it simple for a reason.  In my opinion, those 10 words cover just about everything that one can think of when it comes to defining a professional.


I define unprofessional as not doing the right thing in word and/or deed.  Again, 10 words.  In my opinion, those 10 words cover just about everything that one can think of when it comes to defining unprofessional. 

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