34
34
0
So recently I've been flagged for multiple Failures To Report, as a result UCMJ is pending. I have accepted the consequences of my actions and am prepared to face them. I just wanted to know the extent of the article seeing as I'm still in AIT and haven't reported to my first unit yet. (No pun intended between the Failure to report and me not reporting to my unit. The FTR's are to formation) Help?
UCMJ
Help
Experience
Advice
Edited 7 y ago
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 156
144
144
0
Because CPT Lawrence Cable answered the question you asked so well, as to the extent of punishment, and MAJ Byron Oyler completed it with what can happen if you continue, it frees me up to make an observation: There are several red flags in your post that indicate you think you might be "special". "I'm a Jedi"...PV2(P)...and "I've been flagged"...rather than "I screwed up". But the one that worries me the most, is your focus on your punishment, rather than your attitude and behavior. The good news is, you are smart enough to ask for advice and help. I hope you take this opportunity to come to an understanding...you are in a fork in the road. If you turn the right way, you can make your life gradually better and better. Or, you can really wreck it, permanently. I wish you the best.
(144)
(0)
Lt Col Charlie Brown
I did a pretty good number of LORs and I reserved the right to set up a UIF depending on behavior. That often worked and if it didn't I was building a case.
(0)
(0)
SSG Wayne Wood
As a gun chief in the Army referring a trooper for an Article 15, except in particularly extenuating circumstances, was the last resort only after every other tactic to correct a trooper's behavior had failed.
That said, I have a couple questions the original question brought to my mind. First, when I served (at least when I went through Basic in early 75) we were told a troop couldn't get an AR15 during his/her first six months. What happened to the deadbeats we had in Basic/AIT/Jump School was numerous types of punishment and other corrective measures were tried and if the troop didn't straighten out he was discharged under AR 635-1; inability to adapt to military life. Our Drill Sergeants called it a "----head discharge."
Second, is there no such thing as an "Administrative AR-15" anymore? This came along in the mid-80s and allowed a troop to be punished for an infraction without permanently damaging their future career. As I recall, they took the loss of pay, restriction to barracks, even a temporary bust - but if they kept their nose clean for 90 days the AR-15 (which was kept in the CO's desk) disappeared and I think even the rank might have been restored (not sure if I'm right on that one, been awhile) - no harm no foul.
Our troop with the question is new to the military and its ways and having to adapt to an entirely new mindset and culture.
As one of our Drill Sergeants once said in exasperation, "Don't you s---heads realize what a tough job I have? We've got eight weeks to undo all the damage your Mamas did in eighteen years! We have EIGHT WEEKS TO UN---- your heads!"
An Admin AR-15 might be a good tool for the training cadre to help him without throwing away someone who might be a good soldier. JMO.
That said, I have a couple questions the original question brought to my mind. First, when I served (at least when I went through Basic in early 75) we were told a troop couldn't get an AR15 during his/her first six months. What happened to the deadbeats we had in Basic/AIT/Jump School was numerous types of punishment and other corrective measures were tried and if the troop didn't straighten out he was discharged under AR 635-1; inability to adapt to military life. Our Drill Sergeants called it a "----head discharge."
Second, is there no such thing as an "Administrative AR-15" anymore? This came along in the mid-80s and allowed a troop to be punished for an infraction without permanently damaging their future career. As I recall, they took the loss of pay, restriction to barracks, even a temporary bust - but if they kept their nose clean for 90 days the AR-15 (which was kept in the CO's desk) disappeared and I think even the rank might have been restored (not sure if I'm right on that one, been awhile) - no harm no foul.
Our troop with the question is new to the military and its ways and having to adapt to an entirely new mindset and culture.
As one of our Drill Sergeants once said in exasperation, "Don't you s---heads realize what a tough job I have? We've got eight weeks to undo all the damage your Mamas did in eighteen years! We have EIGHT WEEKS TO UN---- your heads!"
An Admin AR-15 might be a good tool for the training cadre to help him without throwing away someone who might be a good soldier. JMO.
(3)
(0)
PO1 Donald Hammond
Do it the Navy way .... KEEEEEL HAUL HIM!
I loved it on submarines. "We are going to keel haul you at test depth!"
I loved it on submarines. "We are going to keel haul you at test depth!"
(1)
(0)
MSG (Join to see)
SSG Wayne Wood - I was given an AR-15 way back in the Navy. Loss of rank, I continued to perform at a high level (the issue was a small on but the command wanted to make an example of someone and I was the unlucky sailor, not saying I didn't do anything wrong, I did) anyway after a couple of months I did get my rank and all pay restored. However it did stay on my permanent record. Fact is if this soldier fixes his issues he can certainly recover from this setback especially this early in his career.
(1)
(0)
91
91
0
Art 15 generally do not follow you from training; you need not worry so much about the Art 15 as much as you need to correct the action that caused you to receive one in the first place. These can quickly escalate to much worse to include dishonorable discharge if the habit is not soon corrected.
(91)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
I want who ever has been dishonorably discharged for being pate to formation ever. Now maybe if you were late to formation for driving drunk while doing blow off a stripper after murdering your wife then I could see a dishonorable discharge.
(0)
(0)
(2)
(0)
SP5 Lori Pong
While they shouldn't follow you from Training the issue you will have that will stand out is if (and if you have multiple offenses, very likely) you have a reduction in rank. A company grade Article 15 can take a stripe and while the 15 might not be in your records, you may have some explaining to do. Get out of this habit and show up on time. Your permanent party folks won't be as lenient.
(1)
(0)
SrA James Cannon
SSG (Join to see) - I don't think he's trying to say that anyone has been given a dishonorable discharge for showing up late to formation once. I think the point being made is that continual late appearances can lead to snowballing affects throughout the soldier's entire military life and career.
(0)
(0)
57
57
0
Maj Larry Carmon
This minor disciplinary action, is up to you. Should you accept your punishment, correct yourself and drive on, you will have no problem. If you continue down this road, you'll be unemployed before you know it. It’s up to you!
(1)
(0)
SSgt Boyd Herrst
You the Pvt seem to had come into the Army with a bit I
Of a “me, I’m first priority ‘rude and I need my beauty sleep!” So you get up and stroll out to assembly like it’s a summer camp and your counselor, the good Sgt. Has some appointments that you need to take care of. . . and you do or you don’t and you show up or not.. that’s the ‘rude you took.. and now because of your meandering now your superiors are going to inflict a major wake-up call on you with UCMJ action. When you first join it’s a walk-on-glass sit-rep. When it’s
0400 your arse is up and getting ready to meet the day.. previewing where you have to be each moment
And being there 30 to 15 minutes before, Not should I or shouldn’t I..
At least you reached out for help..
I think maybe your recruiter kinda
Duped you or was jesting about not being able to tag your arse out of the rack at 0400 rattling a swagger stick in the trash can (Military alarm clock ). Sure at first it was like that right? Now you are past that and have to get your own self up and going... and being s’where at a specific time.. preferably 30 mins before you had to be to make sure you would not be late... When I was a new A1C I scouted out where I had to be before hand and still got there 30 min ahead of schedule in case there was any forms to fill or
further Instructions.. I made sure my uniform looked right.. Yes, even for that dental AppIentment .. you never know who else was going to be there... Maybe some officer from the base HQ or over at the. Big block building.. I wasn’t worried about them getting in my case..but making a good appearance ... (say by chance he went back to work and made a comment about a Airman he seen whose uniform was impecably Sharp, everything about him was outstanding.. and overheard him saying he was from
Air Base group to the clerk.. ). All that may get back to a person’s org or to the 1SG or Cmdr. Them selves
and shows they are on top of things.. Personnel appearance . attitude.. what is the sorry point.,
It’s the bad apple that gets noticed, but for the negative reason(s). And nobody wants that known about at their org.. Negative attention is a big “No-No”. And units use measures like the UCMJ to persuade personnel to do things the right way. There’s a time/place
For e’thing.. in a troops first few months it’s counseling.. after a few
Months they should know better, so the UCMJ is brought into play.. it’s too easy in some orgs and needs to be tightened up all over. Hopefully
Our Military can become that again and not a testing ground for social-
Feel-good experiments.. seriously..
Social worker in each Section? Let’s get our Military back where it used to be .. with some good old -
Fashioned Military discipline and swagger.. cut the mickey-Mouse-club feel-good-about-self atmosphere.. clean out all them social worker nursemaids that made it hard to do one’s position; be a get it done Officer or NCO.. Thank God we got a New President and Cmdr-
In-Chief ..
Of a “me, I’m first priority ‘rude and I need my beauty sleep!” So you get up and stroll out to assembly like it’s a summer camp and your counselor, the good Sgt. Has some appointments that you need to take care of. . . and you do or you don’t and you show up or not.. that’s the ‘rude you took.. and now because of your meandering now your superiors are going to inflict a major wake-up call on you with UCMJ action. When you first join it’s a walk-on-glass sit-rep. When it’s
0400 your arse is up and getting ready to meet the day.. previewing where you have to be each moment
And being there 30 to 15 minutes before, Not should I or shouldn’t I..
At least you reached out for help..
I think maybe your recruiter kinda
Duped you or was jesting about not being able to tag your arse out of the rack at 0400 rattling a swagger stick in the trash can (Military alarm clock ). Sure at first it was like that right? Now you are past that and have to get your own self up and going... and being s’where at a specific time.. preferably 30 mins before you had to be to make sure you would not be late... When I was a new A1C I scouted out where I had to be before hand and still got there 30 min ahead of schedule in case there was any forms to fill or
further Instructions.. I made sure my uniform looked right.. Yes, even for that dental AppIentment .. you never know who else was going to be there... Maybe some officer from the base HQ or over at the. Big block building.. I wasn’t worried about them getting in my case..but making a good appearance ... (say by chance he went back to work and made a comment about a Airman he seen whose uniform was impecably Sharp, everything about him was outstanding.. and overheard him saying he was from
Air Base group to the clerk.. ). All that may get back to a person’s org or to the 1SG or Cmdr. Them selves
and shows they are on top of things.. Personnel appearance . attitude.. what is the sorry point.,
It’s the bad apple that gets noticed, but for the negative reason(s). And nobody wants that known about at their org.. Negative attention is a big “No-No”. And units use measures like the UCMJ to persuade personnel to do things the right way. There’s a time/place
For e’thing.. in a troops first few months it’s counseling.. after a few
Months they should know better, so the UCMJ is brought into play.. it’s too easy in some orgs and needs to be tightened up all over. Hopefully
Our Military can become that again and not a testing ground for social-
Feel-good experiments.. seriously..
Social worker in each Section? Let’s get our Military back where it used to be .. with some good old -
Fashioned Military discipline and swagger.. cut the mickey-Mouse-club feel-good-about-self atmosphere.. clean out all them social worker nursemaids that made it hard to do one’s position; be a get it done Officer or NCO.. Thank God we got a New President and Cmdr-
In-Chief ..
(4)
(0)
SSgt Boyd Herrst
A few words get changed, no thanks to word-spell/correct... but I think you get the gist of what I’m saying. If any clarification needed..
Feel free to ask !.. I may not get back to you right away, but will try..
Thx, Boyd H. SSGT.(vts)..
Feel free to ask !.. I may not get back to you right away, but will try..
Thx, Boyd H. SSGT.(vts)..
(0)
(0)
50
50
0
Having read through everyone else's responses to you, I have to say you are one lucky PV2 to have so many senior soldiers and airman show so much interest in your fledgling career and giving you such great advice. They've been extremely kind to you. Much kinder than I expected.
Now here's my two cents because I just can't let it go.
You chose to join the military. No one forced you. You asked to join us. You went through basic training, which was supposed to teach you how things are done properly during your time in the service. Apparently those lessons didn't take hold as you have chosen to still do things your way, i.e., showing up late for formation in a school environment. I have to agree with Colonel Lenertz, that you appear to think you are 'special'. You say no, but the "JEDI" on your ID tag says otherwise. Now maybe this will change after you get your Article 15. I hope so, but based on my experiences, I am skeptical.
Get your act together! You had better take SGM Marquez's advice to heart, or get used to being a PV2 or PFC for your entire hitch and then gone. Because as it stands now, no NCO, or officer in their right mind would ever recommend promotion past PFC should your performance issues persist.
Should you continue down this path, you won't even make it to the end of your contracted time. If you want to be 'that guy' in your unit, its up to you. Don't be 'that guy'.
My very light rant, without expletives, is over.
Now here's my two cents because I just can't let it go.
You chose to join the military. No one forced you. You asked to join us. You went through basic training, which was supposed to teach you how things are done properly during your time in the service. Apparently those lessons didn't take hold as you have chosen to still do things your way, i.e., showing up late for formation in a school environment. I have to agree with Colonel Lenertz, that you appear to think you are 'special'. You say no, but the "JEDI" on your ID tag says otherwise. Now maybe this will change after you get your Article 15. I hope so, but based on my experiences, I am skeptical.
Get your act together! You had better take SGM Marquez's advice to heart, or get used to being a PV2 or PFC for your entire hitch and then gone. Because as it stands now, no NCO, or officer in their right mind would ever recommend promotion past PFC should your performance issues persist.
Should you continue down this path, you won't even make it to the end of your contracted time. If you want to be 'that guy' in your unit, its up to you. Don't be 'that guy'.
My very light rant, without expletives, is over.
(50)
(0)
MAJ Stephan Hill
One word of caution. When I was a Co Commander back in 1980, we used NJP fairly often, only to find that in the 90s those soldiers who received an NJP for minor infractions early in their careers were being forced out of the Army as it was reduced to achieve a Peace Dividend. Point is that environments change, and today's current practices may not last thru the soldier's career.
(3)
(0)
CPT Larry Hudson
Agreed. I would suggest recycle through basic again since you obviously are still self centered, reflecting a lack of responsibility and are playing with article 15 punishment and possibility article 31 which will destroy your military service as well as your civilian record for prospects of employment. I see a young man walking a thin line and you either need to get your head screwed on right or experience the worse nightmare of your like of continuous military justice.
(2)
(0)
SCPO (Join to see)
Sir, this is where we disagree, we begged him to join us. The branches are recruiting non stop and spending tons of money for it. The Navy has just increased HYT to keep people who can’t promote and we are retaining sailors who are out of PT standards till end of enlistment now instead of admin seps. This kid washes out and now a unit deploys down range short a individual. This is why he is getting support from NCOs. He can probably be molded and become an asset with “extra attention” and mentor ship. MCPON Giodano has a NJP and is now the senior enlisted man in the Navy. To say we are doing this PV2 a favor is short sighted when the services are giving bonuses and begging people to stay. The correct answer is you build this individual and bring him in to the team and probably end up with a better leader in the future as he had to overcome adversity at some stage of his career. You are right not everyone can be or is worth saving however, it is the NCOs jobs to figure what is best for the junior members and help them towards that goal within reason.
(0)
(0)
46
46
0
I support whole heartedly the advice that you have received already about corrective action and how to go forward.
But I will add this:
If you are "that guy" and show up to my formations late, I will take a personal interest in assisting you with getting squared away.
Trust me, you don't want that.
I can promise you one thing, your PT score will improve.
But I will add this:
If you are "that guy" and show up to my formations late, I will take a personal interest in assisting you with getting squared away.
Trust me, you don't want that.
I can promise you one thing, your PT score will improve.
(46)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
No 1SG being scared to lead is a death sentence in the military. I agree with you, I am a Soldier from 2 eras the mid to late 1980s and today, and today is a different animal. When I was a young soldier I got scuffed up, and you know what I tell soldiers today? Not only did I have it coming, but my leadership was doing me a favor even if I didn't see it then. Today the powers that be want NCO s to document every little thing until we get a pattern of misconduct so we can throw the soldier out of the military. We could save these soldiers careers if we just scuffed them up and let them learn but apparently that takes too much effort today?
(1)
(0)
1SG (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - I guess I always saw it a different way. That what was at issue was that NCOs would get lazy and not document, so that when it came time for the Commander to get involved and chapter a Soldier - and no matter how good a unit is, there will always be some of those - the supporting documentation wasn't done.
I have pretty much always taken the view (two completely unsalvageable Soldiers stand as the exception to this) that once the Commander has to take action, it is a failure on me and my NCOs to get it solved at a lower level. I take them personally when it doesn't happen. Which is why I have religion on both documenting and employing all the powers of persuasion and corrective action necessary to square a troop away before it gets that far.
I have pretty much always taken the view (two completely unsalvageable Soldiers stand as the exception to this) that once the Commander has to take action, it is a failure on me and my NCOs to get it solved at a lower level. I take them personally when it doesn't happen. Which is why I have religion on both documenting and employing all the powers of persuasion and corrective action necessary to square a troop away before it gets that far.
(2)
(0)
LTC John King
A lot of debate over a soldier/Airman/Sailor not being able to be at their appointed place of duty properly prepared and on time. Started the service as enlisted in the Navy and Navy Reserve and retired out of the Army National Guard as a LTC. When I was out of boot camp and junior enlisted in HS-15 training as a aircrewman I reported late for duty on several occasions after I moved off base. Still remember a Senior Chief which took special interest in my situation and helped plan all my weekends and spare time for several months. After his mentoring and special attention I was always early and prepared for duty. The 1 SG is spot on.
(1)
(0)
SPC Cameron Hale An ART 15 is a non judicial punishment procedure designed to deal with minor offenses. As stated else where, the paperwork (digital these days) does not follow you to your unit...(though if you get busted down, have pay taken, that will be visible to the new unit )
What does follow you is the fact you had an ART 15...that never goes away...12 years from now at the QMP board it would be ONE point of consideration in your review...a very minor one, and likely dismissed as inconsequential if there was nothing but stellar performance there after.
So your goal now is twofold.. Fix the underlying issue that caused this NJP, lateness to formation and step up your game overall.
So not one alarm clock.... but two, and a watch with an alarm, and getting with a buddy and telling them, "look man... I need help...if Im not here 15 out like you are, call my stupid ass" And find another that lives in your building..to bang on your door as they are up and moving about.....and you do all that BEFORE you see the commander for NJP... The unit will notice your no longer late as the NJP approaches..and when your commander asks in the Art 15 proceeding if you have anything to say ...MAN UP... Own your screw up not a peep in excuse..not one whine or cry about unfair, you need a chance...Just I did it, I accept it, and this is what i have done so it never happens again. .. And lay it out .. Alarm clock 1, alarm clock 2, watch with alarm, Buddy 1, buddy 2 .. Sir Ive never had to be this responsible for myself before joining... I get it now.....I'll prove it to you.....And your fate is in the commanders hands....what ever it is.... suck it up, and move on.
What does follow you is the fact you had an ART 15...that never goes away...12 years from now at the QMP board it would be ONE point of consideration in your review...a very minor one, and likely dismissed as inconsequential if there was nothing but stellar performance there after.
So your goal now is twofold.. Fix the underlying issue that caused this NJP, lateness to formation and step up your game overall.
So not one alarm clock.... but two, and a watch with an alarm, and getting with a buddy and telling them, "look man... I need help...if Im not here 15 out like you are, call my stupid ass" And find another that lives in your building..to bang on your door as they are up and moving about.....and you do all that BEFORE you see the commander for NJP... The unit will notice your no longer late as the NJP approaches..and when your commander asks in the Art 15 proceeding if you have anything to say ...MAN UP... Own your screw up not a peep in excuse..not one whine or cry about unfair, you need a chance...Just I did it, I accept it, and this is what i have done so it never happens again. .. And lay it out .. Alarm clock 1, alarm clock 2, watch with alarm, Buddy 1, buddy 2 .. Sir Ive never had to be this responsible for myself before joining... I get it now.....I'll prove it to you.....And your fate is in the commanders hands....what ever it is.... suck it up, and move on.
(40)
(0)
SFC Charles McVey Sr.
Capt Gregory Prickett - I have been retired since 2003 and I still do that, my alram is on the other side of the room. Only one I need to get up now is myself,, my Granddaughter for school, and sometimes my wife for either school or work depending on which day of the week it is.
(3)
(0)
SrA Michael Risney
SPC Cameron Hale - Glad to hear !! Watch out for the "after a year" complacency trap. You start to get used to the routine and it is easy to slack a little, you are no longer the new guy, and you start to have younger guys come in that take some heat off of you.
I have been out a long time now, work construction, now as a foreman/manager, and still like to jump in and unload the morning truck now and then. Always try and carry just a little more than the young guys. Most guys notice and start to hump a little more. I notice that and remember at bonus time.
I have been out a long time now, work construction, now as a foreman/manager, and still like to jump in and unload the morning truck now and then. Always try and carry just a little more than the young guys. Most guys notice and start to hump a little more. I notice that and remember at bonus time.
(0)
(0)
SPC Joe Davenport
Speaking as a guy who messed up at the back end of my enlistment for me the issue was I went from a unit where I had a back log of work to clear every day to a unit where nearly every day was "make work" true soldering in Civil War definition. I was a 27E so unlike a combat arms MOS I either had tons of jobs on the bench (in Germany we supported a corps with 15 of us) or bubpkus. When I got to Fort Lewis in 1980 there were 23 of us supporting 9th Infantry Division and the Rangers. Spent a LOT of time painting and polishing things then i discovered bands in Seattle! Too many long nights and suddenly painting the rocks around barracks crimson and white seemed like a waste of time. It was a choice i made and I managed to ETS BEFORE I got busted a second time (would have been bad to get out as an E-2 when you came in E-3.
(0)
(0)
20
20
0
Depends on the rank/level of the Article 15. If it's is done by a company grade officer other than the Company Commander, 14 days restriction and 14 days extra duty. If it's the Company Commander, add an oral reprimand, loss of 7 days pay and reduction to E1 in your case. If they think you have screwed up enough to warrant a Field Grade, 45 days extra duty, 45 days restriction unless no extra duty, then it's 60 days, an oral reprimand, reduction to E1 and the loss of a 1/2 months base pay. You can appeal an Article 15 or demand a court martial, but in general that is a very stupid idea since Judicial Punishment has harsher sentences and has real and immediate career ramifications.
A much harsher set of punishments for Senior NCO's and Officers, both of which Article 15's would be career terminating events.
A much harsher set of punishments for Senior NCO's and Officers, both of which Article 15's would be career terminating events.
(20)
(0)
SGT Randall Smith
When faced with my 1st article 15 I took the 1st Sgt punishment instead. For 4 weekends I scrubbed hallways and cleaned latrines. The man I fought with refused the Top's punishment and the CO busted him down to E-4 from Spec 5 for hitting a PFC. He got his 5 back six months later. The next year when I went before the promotion board there was nothing in my record to hurt me.
(2)
(0)
CPT Lawrence Cable
Ran across this after a long time and did notice an omission. If you are E4 or below, the Article 15 is filed in your local file and destroyed after 2 years or when you PCS's next. So in this case, the Article 15 should not follow the soldier to the next duty station.
(0)
(0)
14
14
0
PV2 Hale - everyone makes mistakes (especially in Basic and AIT). Just remember this - when you are not where you are supposed to be - someone else must take up the slack. Any unit is only as good as its people. When you get to your first unit - just remember that your brothers and sisters depend on you. There is no greater honor or responsibility given to a soldier then the trust of his fellow soldiers. You can either accept and return that trust - or not. The choice is yours. But remember this - in Combat you rarely get a second chance and failure to be where you are required to be has lasting consequences. Good luck on your career
(14)
(0)
LTC Orlando Illi
SPC Cameron Hale - good luck and remember that you are following in the footsteps of millions before you. The Military is not a career for the faint of heart, or the weak in spirit. You can never let your fellow soldiers down. Again, good luck
(7)
(0)
14
14
0
You need to go to Lombardi Time show up 15 minutes earlier than the posted time. FYI, people like you is why a platoon has to have formation 90 minutes before brigade and division runs and other formations at those level. So keep that in mind why you're running late.
(14)
(0)
SGT Randall Smith
I was an Army Brat and in our house every clock was set 5 minutes fast. To this day I keep my watch and truck clock set 5 minutes fast. My dad believed that if you were 5 minutes early you were on time.
(2)
(0)
MAJ Terry LaFrance
The toughest BDE XO I ever worked for set the standard by saying if you're 10 minutes early you're five minutes late.
(0)
(0)
9
9
0
SPC Cameron Hale I know there has been some good advice on here and there has been one particular SSG who has absolutely no idea what it means to be a leader other than to be a tyrant. So there have always been stupid people in charge that are not smart enough to take the time to understand what it takes to be effective leader. It's called the Peter Principle. You can learn from not only good leaders, but bad ones. Carry a notebook and write down things that you think are right and wrong with the way somebody leads. Later that night write why you think the way you do. Go back to them often and see if your opinions change. I started mine as a PFC and it formed my leadership style when I became and NCO. I still have that book and I still take notes, but now it is in the corporate world. I still continue to learn new things every day.
One of my biggest bitches was formation times. I swore when I was in charge I would not make my guys show up earlier than required. I used to ask myself all the time, "Why the fuck am I here 20 minutes early for this formation time, which is 20 minutes for the formation." You are the reason! As a NCO you don't want to look like you can't take care of your shit and then your PL doesn't want to look like he can't take care of his people. So because some people can't roll their ass out of bed the Army way is make everybody show up at some ungodly time in the morning to stand around with their thumb up their ass. Yeah a training formation sucks, but in the real world if I have a route clearing package scheduled for 7am and I need to be 15 minutes behind the engineers so some asshat doesn't bury a IED right after the RCP. So let's say you decide to sleep in and I have to send somebody to get you. By the time you get your shit on and in the truck we are now 45 minutes late. Now we are a hour behind the RCP. We are now going to get hit and somebody may die.
Now the "Come to Jesus part". Get your shit together. This is the fucking Army. We get up early and go to bed late. It is nothing new. Stop chasing ass and partying on weeknights. It is obvious that you act like you want to stay in. I have had soldiers that talk a good game, but when it came down to it they were just bullshiters. So it is all on you to unfuck yourself. You are at a crossroads and the old days of guys getting several Art. 15s and retiring are gone. I had a friend that got one for child support 10 years before. When the draw down happened a couple years ago they would not allow him to reenlist. 12 years down the tubes. So stop wasting peoples time, either fix it or take an admin.
Just so you know I got 2 Art. 15s for late to formation when I was 20 years old. When I reenlisted after 9/11 I was a 32 year old PFC. The advice comes from a reformed fuckup.
One of my biggest bitches was formation times. I swore when I was in charge I would not make my guys show up earlier than required. I used to ask myself all the time, "Why the fuck am I here 20 minutes early for this formation time, which is 20 minutes for the formation." You are the reason! As a NCO you don't want to look like you can't take care of your shit and then your PL doesn't want to look like he can't take care of his people. So because some people can't roll their ass out of bed the Army way is make everybody show up at some ungodly time in the morning to stand around with their thumb up their ass. Yeah a training formation sucks, but in the real world if I have a route clearing package scheduled for 7am and I need to be 15 minutes behind the engineers so some asshat doesn't bury a IED right after the RCP. So let's say you decide to sleep in and I have to send somebody to get you. By the time you get your shit on and in the truck we are now 45 minutes late. Now we are a hour behind the RCP. We are now going to get hit and somebody may die.
Now the "Come to Jesus part". Get your shit together. This is the fucking Army. We get up early and go to bed late. It is nothing new. Stop chasing ass and partying on weeknights. It is obvious that you act like you want to stay in. I have had soldiers that talk a good game, but when it came down to it they were just bullshiters. So it is all on you to unfuck yourself. You are at a crossroads and the old days of guys getting several Art. 15s and retiring are gone. I had a friend that got one for child support 10 years before. When the draw down happened a couple years ago they would not allow him to reenlist. 12 years down the tubes. So stop wasting peoples time, either fix it or take an admin.
Just so you know I got 2 Art. 15s for late to formation when I was 20 years old. When I reenlisted after 9/11 I was a 32 year old PFC. The advice comes from a reformed fuckup.
(9)
(0)
SP5 Floyd Raff
I am a little confused by your comment did you have a break in service? or is your leadership that lousy that they would not promote you for 12 years?
(0)
(0)
SGT William Howell
Chief, say this with only love in my heart. Go fuck youself. The grammar nazi comment section is located somewhere else.
(0)
(0)
PO3 (Join to see)
SGT Howell, knowing full well I'm late to the party here: haven't heard that notebook bit before, but I will assuredly be using it. Ultimate goal in the military is to go from enlisted to officer, in order to learn what it is to be the person being led in order to lead more effectively and judiciously.
I will take this advice and hopefully get to a position where I can use it. Thank you.
I will take this advice and hopefully get to a position where I can use it. Thank you.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google