Posted on Aug 16, 2017
What is the most appropriate way to address someone being given a false PT score, while minimizing the damage to their career?
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Apologies for my terrible English. Here is the question broken down and explained in what I hope is in better terms.
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 244
It is a smack in the face to all the soldiers who put in hard work pass the APFT and when soldiers know that leaders are other soldiers are not they lose all respect for them and that is not good for the military
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This was and still is very serious problem with the Army. It’s all on the NCOs to fix this. It’s happened and is still happening every day in uniform. Rank chasers and bullet chasers have they buddie hook them up with a PT score they really didn’t earn.
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Send her my way. Here’s the conversation: This is your only slim chance to survive this. I want a sworn statement from you as to your PT Score of record. If you wish to stand by it, that’s perfectly fine. Sign the statement and meet me at the track. I’ll give you a 15% variance, but less than that and everything is on hold while I conduct a formal investigation. On the other hand, if you now having second thoughts about this whole thing, document the actual events and be prepared to be called as a witness. Your promotion is gone, your career probably is too. But this will at least let you avoid prosecution. I’ll be back in 30 minutes.
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It is a question of integrity you either have it or you don't and she don't as well as anyone who is an accomplice to the situation. There can be no good reason for cheating or falsifying the score. Minimizing the damage will be hard if not impossible. From now on everything she does will have a question mark beside it. That is not the stuff leaders are made of. When I went throught the NCO Academy years ago we had a Sgt and a Ssg whi were caught cheating on the PT test. They were both kicked out of the academy and when they returned to their units they both received Article 15's.
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The NCO who submitted the false score and the soldier tested if she knowingly allowed the false score to move forward should both be discharged after facing charges. There’s no room for a lack of integrity. You are in a precarious situation and without a doubt go to 1stSgt. If he doesn’t do anything then go to the SgtMaj. If he doesn’t do anything go to the CO. If this pattern continues call the SgtMaj of the Army.
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An NCO or potential NCO MUST have integrity and should report this herself! Otherwise she is setting a very bad presidency.
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Integrity is the easiest thing to lose and the hardest to regain. If you’ll pencil whip one piece of paper you’ll pencil whip any piece of pape
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I agree with SGT Gunderson. I would order another PT test to be performed due to change in duty station or unit. However, do make sure is doesn’t have an injury of some sort. I remember maxing my PT test, going to a different duty station, retaking my PT test and failing. I pulled my groin muscle deadlifting. Needless to say, my groom muscle refused to warmup or work with me that day. However, a month later, I was retested and maxed my pt test. The funny thing was, I thought is could warm my muscle up and actually run, maybe not max score run, but run fast enough to pass. The answer to the question was no, evidently I couldn’t run.
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The only POSSIBLE reason I could see for a legit 300 to failure would be if this soldier had transitioned to Ft. Carson and read not given the 30 days to become acclimatized. Beyond that it was pencil whipped for promotion points.
As Top pointed out a test for record, and proceed from there.
As Top pointed out a test for record, and proceed from there.
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If she failed the PT just retake it, she just took a diagnostic pt test not the record test which is yearly she has the time to trained up. The diagnostic test can not reflect badly as it is a test to gadge where a soldiers physical training in getting ready for the PT Test. Tell the soldier to put her head down and Trained. It’s nothing to tell most soldier don’t report to there next duty station ready to pass the PT Test. I did but I wouldn’t max it like I would want
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More info is needed was she a consistent high 200s? Was she stationed on the coast and moved Carson for example. Elevation changes messed me up for a few months.
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This isn’t the first bloated PT score and it won’t be the last. The vast majority of soldiers have benefitted from an easy monitor or a downhill running course at some point in their careers. It’s a break that falls into the laps of good troops. I think there are two problems here. One is the complete fudgery of what should have been a failure and a soldier’s complete involvement in it either during or after the fact. There is no benefit of the doubt. The troop didn’t get a 275 on the diagnostic and caught a break based on discretion...someone grossly fudged the record. My real issue is with the desire to protect careers. Who cares? Multiple soldiers are lying to further their careers. These are not honest mistakes. Heads should roll as an example that nothing is given or taken unearned.
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1. My $.02, if anyone knowingly gives/accepts false grades- then they should not be an NCO in the 1st place. 2. She has a moral dilemma and what a transfer- it becomes long distance hearsay. 3. Since she failed a diagnostic PT test- it may invalidate her promotion., and cancel her orders. She better damn will pass the next one with flying colors- or they might try to chapter her.
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Company grade Article 15 or worse. The higher the rank, the harsher the punishment. Officers should be relieved for cause.
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Now everyone is worried about their career..? Not when they were lying, or found out there was falsified documents? I don't personally care what happens to any of them, as long as they aren't put into a position where they have to lead soldiers.
Where were y'all during the Army Values classes in basic?
Where were y'all during the Army Values classes in basic?
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Well, first off, what are all these "points" for promotion? Dang. I look around now as the sailors (and others) get ready for promotions and know I would never have made it above E-4 if I had had to do all that stuff.
As I always said about PT. I can run from the torpedo room to shaft alley with a EAB (emergency air breathing) mask on. About 300 feet. Where, on a submarine, would I ever run further than that? Give PT that resembles the job.
So all you grunts, do a 20 mile hike with your full gear, dig a fox hole, and shoot the "enemy", set up a tent, eat an MRE, and then hike back. You have 2 hours. GO! :)
As I always said about PT. I can run from the torpedo room to shaft alley with a EAB (emergency air breathing) mask on. About 300 feet. Where, on a submarine, would I ever run further than that? Give PT that resembles the job.
So all you grunts, do a 20 mile hike with your full gear, dig a fox hole, and shoot the "enemy", set up a tent, eat an MRE, and then hike back. You have 2 hours. GO! :)
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I picked up on one thing here, she got transferred. This tells me probably WHY her score was faked. They wanted to transfer her out but couldn't if she had a bad score. This actually happens a lot. Not necessarily with PT but with evals being written to be able to transfer a person. I learned this when I first made LPO. I had a total derelict sailor under me. So I wrote his evals to reflect that. I was taken in by a person of rank I will not name but was way above me and told to change the eval to a "good" one. I did so. When he got his transfer I was told NOW you write the eval as his transfer eval. Yeh. Got stopped by a Chief while walking along the pier and he just blew a gasket at me about lying etc on an eval. But it happens. Funny thing was that the same people who were behind this used to say "we don't pass our problems off to others".
So I'm betting they wanted to transfer her and made sure it happened.
What can she do? Fess up if she knew about the fake score. Or lie. And never stop lying. That gets tuff.
So I'm betting they wanted to transfer her and made sure it happened.
What can she do? Fess up if she knew about the fake score. Or lie. And never stop lying. That gets tuff.
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1SG (Join to see)
If your going to lie on an APFT just to get rid of someone, why send them out with a perfect score? A 180 (minimum, for you non-Army folks) will do nicely.
No, all of my money plus a loan from the loan shark is on that this Soldier had a non-professional relationship with the NCO who falsified this PT test in order to get this quid pro quo.
And I would take the time to locate this former NCO of hers too to ensure that he earned some consequences from his Chain-of-Command.
No, all of my money plus a loan from the loan shark is on that this Soldier had a non-professional relationship with the NCO who falsified this PT test in order to get this quid pro quo.
And I would take the time to locate this former NCO of hers too to ensure that he earned some consequences from his Chain-of-Command.
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