What is the most appropriate way to address someone being given a false PT score, while minimizing the damage to their career?

I have been out over 25 years but I can say this without any question in my mind, The APFT has and likely always will be an area where far to many get pencil whipped outcomes, I understand the importance of Physical fitness, I also understand testing to a set standard on a regular basis, I don't however see the point in all of the other testing that used to go on regularly. I recall one period in my own service where I did 5 PT tests in 11 months, One before My PCS, One shortly after arrival with minimal time to adjust to the new location, Another prior to attending an NCO Academy, another because the New Battalion Commander wanted 100% of the unit tested within 30 days and the last because He didn't like the results of the previous one. I passed each one but by the time the last one rolled around I was over taking PT tests and my score reflected a minimal effort and from that point on its all I gave for the rest of my time in that Command. I have always believed the test fails to give a true picture of soldier readiness, I have always felt it is over emphasized in its importance and is used as a weapon against some, by people in positions of power.

If this Soldier has done well in every area, then this PT score should not hinder a promotion. Yes fitness, is part of readiness, but when it comes to promotions, it would depend on what exactly will she be doing in her career. If she is not in a combat unit, and or a unit, that needs very physically fit, soldiers, then a curve should be applied, not only to her, but to anyone. I remember, those PT tests, I hated the 2 mile run, which the NCO in charge, was so adamant about. well I could barely breath through my nose due to nasal polyps and an inherited screwed up, ears, nose and throat, compounded by major Hearing loss.Somedays, I could do that run easily and always felt good for beating the clock. On other days, my allergies, polyps, would just hinder my running, and I would come in 5 to 10 seconds off the required time. Physical training is important, but sometimes, mother Nature plays her Joke on you.I say promote her, she obviously has much potential. one other thing, when you are but a mere 19 year old soldier, who raises his hand for a 50 mile walk through the alps in two days( I must have dropped a crazy pill), has got to have some kahunas, well I went to Switzerland to Bern for a 25 mile walk the first day, and when I woke up for the second day, I could barely walk, the blisters from a grueling route through those mountains. I willed myself back into my fatigues, and combat boots, and limped to the starting line for the next 25 miles would tell a story of endurance and not sweating the Pain, that obviously every one had, well even though we were hurting, when we approached the finish line ,and the crowds cheering us on, we went for it, and marched down the BLVD. like it was graduation day, even doing an eyes right. A great feeling to accomplish what was then a difficult test of how well your training was, and if you could keep up. (the colonel fell out, and when were all returned to our garrison, the colonel gave a speech), yes he admitted that he fell out, and to the men who continued the hike, and finished. No PT test that year, the colonel says a PT test is not anything to compare with a 50 mile volksmarch in big mountains area. as for me, Anything to get out of that darn two mile run....Army sure did challenge you almost everyday.

CPL Santos, first of all, how do you know her APFT was falsified? if you do not have proof, do not entertain rumors, if you do report it to your PSG. Now, all Soldiers will receive an APFT upon arrival at any unit, if the Soldier fails, then he/she will be a flag. If she is promotable she can very well lose her promotable status. Your question is what to do in order not to affect her career? Her career is already affected, any 1SG will see the big difference between a 300 APFT score and a barely passing or even failing. A 300 APFT Soldier on his/her worst day will pass the APFT. Bottom line there is no room for an NCO that do not have any integrity at all.

Granted, this was a year ago but... If no one can prove she falsified (or knew it was falsified) the first PT test score then it's hard to prove anything without a witness. You say she was given a false 300 APFT score - based on what? Are you a witness? How do you know this? Does she know it's not the right score or are people assuming this? How do you know she knows? Is this just an assumption because she failed the following diagnostic? Why did she fail the diagnostic? Was she sick or injured? Maybe there's a reason she failed it. Maybe she did score a 300 initially. Seems like some are jumping to conclusions without knowing all the facts OR they have not all been expressed here. There are many more questions that need to be asked here.

If what you are saying is accurate she should have immediately come forward and stated there was a mistake on her initial PT test. If you know this is the accurate version then you should have reported it up your CoC.

Remember you are not there one whom is affecting her career. If you have substantial proof that she gundecked her score then come forward and be a leader.

She affected her own score and career. She made her bed and now she has to deal with it. She messed up.

Part of being a good leader is doing the right thing even if it isn't popular. What about the soldier who is behind her and didn't make rank because she is picked. Is that fair,

I fully understand the complexity of the physical readiness test. In fact, I got out of the Navy as an E6 with 4 years left to retire. Why?I wasn't able to meet the standard in the run portion of the PRT. I tried but I could not keep a pace. I don't blame anyone about it. My leadership had to do what they had to do and deny my last reenlistment. I hold no bad feelings and have respect for them.

I didn't cheat I took it like a grown-ass woman. I feel better because I didn't cheat the system.

You have a duty and obligation to report it. Whatever happens will happen. You also have to CYA, if it ever comes back on you that you knew and did nothing... Then it will look like you helped her cheat too

It's a lot to think about.

I see all of these comments and can just about bet some of you have hooked your buddy up at some point in your careers or had someone give you a few more sit ups or push-ups than you did to better your score. GIve me a break!!

My PSGT in Iraq, 2005, signed off on a PT card for a 300 that never happened. Scored him a trial by Courts Martial and a promotion from SFC to SSG. Her conduct scored her a promotion as well.

It should be obvious if the card was pencil whipped. Sounds like a retest is in order. The NCO needs to be dealt with.

Remedial PT until they can both achieve the score posted! Scored by the CSM.

This is very important, you either have proof or an admission, or you only have a suspicion. The Soldier's current performance is of issue hear, don't fall into a trap. A leader's life is hard enough just dealing with the immediate and the future, don't make the mistake of assuming that this soldier and another NCO are both complicit in a fabrication when there are easily other explanations. Could your Soldier be dealing with issues and she just let herself go? How old was the previous PT test, how conducive has her environment been to support quality PT. It's much easier to loose than to gain. But most importantly, think of the damage to the soldier if your suspicion is wrong. You have proof or you don't, make a decision and deal with what's in front of you, You won't be wrong.

During my time in the Army, for a Corporal to question a higher ranked NCO was a bit of an issue. From your information, you've no idea if her PT test was modified for her promotion or not, maybe it was. But why are YOU questioning it? Are you upset that someone other than you is being promoted? Why aren't you, as an E4, being promoted to E5? If you are in her chain of concern, why would an E4P be under you? Having a PT test modified for advancement is a pretty serious charge. Defiantly violates the regs and falls under UCMJ. Your concern for her "military career" is um... admirable... but to be honest, if you were really concerned about her, you wouldn't be posting her business on here.

The damage or lack thereof is not your concern. You do what needs to be done and drive on. She knowingly did the wrong thing. Whatever fallout happens, happens. She deserves whatever she gets. You don't cheat on a PT test. You just don't. We work our asses off to earn those scores and it is not fair to get an inflated score simply for doing the wrong thing because at any point your fitness may influence an outcome in the field. Similar to if someone says you can shoot a gun and hit a target and you cannot. If you cannot field strip a weapon and hit the damned target, then you don't get qualified because that would make you a deficit to your team. Protecting someone like that is not in anyone's best interests. She should have thought of the consequences of her actions before the crap hit the fan. SMDH.

Well that goes against the army values..LDRSHIP.. not to say about the NCO CREED.

I agree with 1st Sgt statement also

Retest. If she fails, flag. Counseling statements need to be in order. It is obvious that this soldier has zero integrity, honor, personal courage, a lack of morality, and a complete disregard of what it means to be an NCO.

Send her to see a doctor. I'm sure she will likely come up with shin splints during her recovery. She could be given a temp profile which could allow her some time to get back in shape. She is in control of her own destiny, so its all on her to get back to being fit. There are some commands that need to be shaken up so should the ball drop its their own fault. Such a thing shouldn't occur in today's military. There are still waiting lines to get in. A dirtbag is just that, plus a burden on the entire team, especially moral because the word is already out, I guarantee it!

CPL George S.
This is an integrity issue. Either she should not be an NCO or better. She takes the promotion and embraces her responsibilities. She should be running light poles for 4 miles three days a week and lifting weights 3 days a week. Hopefully she learns pencil wiping readiness and promotable criteria hurt her and her unit. With luck she will not fail her troops the way she has been failed. If she wants to lead she needs to learn to and not be Ms. Nice NCO. Sometimes the best way we can lead is to punch someone in the testicles or breasts, knock them down, then give them a hand up, dust them off and help them in the right direction. Over the long term this will not damage her career no matter how it pans out. Every good SNCO I know and have worked with had NJP as a young soldier.

V/R

Crusty MSGT

Unless there is absolute proof little can be done. Would be tough to even have changed down. You can not just jam 2 PT tests back to back and then try to kick out. There is absolutley not nearly enough info here to know what action to take. She failed a dio, nit a record. relax.

Take action for what she does as a new leader in a new duty station. Not for what is perceived to have or have not occurred at the previous duty station as apparently there could have been failed leadership as well. Perhaps she thought being a diagnostic she felt she could slack off and fail or maybe she had been drinking and slacked off throughout the transition of duty stations. Too may what ifs here. Without all the facts you can't make an accurate judgment of what actually happened. Yes I know I was only an E4P when I left but I have held leadership and command positions in law enforcement so I do have a little to say on the subject. That is my two cents on the subject.

What proof do you have. It could have been legit. Without proof or confessing you have nothing to stop it.

I think the biggest issue is when we see leadership only being graded by certain people. It sets a tone amonth the soldiers. I saw an environment where junior enlisted were called out about PT scores but never heard about the PSG or PL etc. At the end of the day no matter the job you should practice what you preach and if you talk the talk as a leader you better walk the walk. If you aren’t a PT stud then don’t act like your rank allows you to be an a SME about PT. It takes a great leader to know where their shortcomings are.