Posted on Aug 16, 2017
What is the most appropriate way to address someone being given a false PT score, while minimizing the damage to their career?
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Apologies for my terrible English. Here is the question broken down and explained in what I hope is in better terms.
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
Article 15
Fraud
APFT
UCMJ
Promotions
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 244
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Sounds like somebody had a happy ending and decided it was worth a 300pt score. "aaaaahhhhh! I've never had that before. That was amazing. That a 300 in my book."
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No place in the NCO corps for the person who pencil whipped it or her if she knew it was pencil whipped. Hard to believe she doesn’t
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I have seen a LTC kicked out of the army for fusing a PT score and then tried to use it to be pinned full bird whIle in a combat Zone, in my years in the army I have seen a large drop of integerity, honest, selflessness in both the NCO and Officers ranks, when I returned home from the middle east and I found it very hard to maintain the standard due to injury received over seas I dropped my retirement papers, I would not ask my subordinate and peers to keep a standard I could not, lead from the front and never ask of soldiers some thing that you are not able to or willing to do.
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To be serious, this is clearly a POG we're talking about and I'll say the same thing to you as I did one of my POG friends; You can be the best dental technician in the world, but if you can't do the right amount of pushups your career is going nowhere.
Unless it becomes evident false pt scores are being used as a form a favortism, I would assist in the cover up until the person got their score up.
Unless it becomes evident false pt scores are being used as a form a favortism, I would assist in the cover up until the person got their score up.
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Talk to your first sgt or plt sgt. Depending on where your foxhole is.
What's done above your pay you can't control, let your leadership do that. You didn't commit or covert the act. Yoy didn't dio anything. . If they try charging you hey Ann attorney.
What's done above your pay you can't control, let your leadership do that. You didn't commit or covert the act. Yoy didn't dio anything. . If they try charging you hey Ann attorney.
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She has an integrity problem. She does not deserve becoming and NCO. If one has unquestionable evidence that her supervisor lied for her to get her promoted, I say confront this person. Give them a chance to demonstrate and apply the leadership skills they’ve learned. If the soldier refuses, do the Army, the NCO Corps and the soldiers who will serve under this person a favor. Get rid of this dead weight.
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I had a company who pencil whipped so many pt scores for some E6 and most E7 and above including officers. Somehow the fat pieces of shit that failed the alternate aerobic exercise (the walk) still got a 280 or higher. I'm sorry I was a Walker too and they failed by every and any standard. When it takes 45 min to do 2.5 miles you failed.
In reference to your question, either she needs to come clean or work her ass off to get a 270 or higher on the next pt test to say the diag was just a fluke
In reference to your question, either she needs to come clean or work her ass off to get a 270 or higher on the next pt test to say the diag was just a fluke
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I saw this way to much while in. Fat females with e5 and e6 rank. There is no way possible they failed hight and weight. But somehow passed tape tests...
They could never pass PT tests. Yet had rank.
They could never pass PT tests. Yet had rank.
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Falsifying any information to be promoted is pathetic. And the fact that the issue is trying to be covered up is even more so. In my opion, the answer to your question is to decline the promotion, and make an apft oriented fitness plan so that she can live up to the standards that an NCO is. This in itself is poor leadership trying to promote someone because they favor a person over any characteristics of merit or true leadership. Soon enough she will promote and then lead her soldiers and promote her soldiers the same way she was lead and promoted.
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Is it assumed that the previous was pencil whipped because she failed this one? Did she recently pcs and take a lot of leave? Was the new apft her first one at her new unit?
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Well CPL, let me ask YOU this. Are you considered an NCO being a CPL? Let me help ya with that answer, YES you are. Now question number two, is this soldier, since she is promotable but nit pinned yet, in your squad? Platoon, Company? Either way, as an NCO yourself, albeit you are kinda an JR NCO in training you are still considered to be in a MCO position with NCO authority as an CPL. So as an NCO and having the authority of an NCO, if I were you, keeping with the spirit and allining yourself within the terms of the NCO creed, which as a CPL I,hope you,k,iw amd understand the NCO creed, you could go amf speak with the/an NCO within her chain of command and make this problem known.
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I would suggest a remedial PT to get her in condition. I would also suggest that she volunteer that the previous PT test results were wrong. Give her one chance, no more.
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Have you ever heard of ethical dilemmas? Do NCOs no longer have any integrity. You are NOT politicians. She is evidently not ready to be an NCO
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As far as the general failure of a PTtesr should be enough to disqualify the soildier. But as leaders I know that NCOs should be held to a higher standard. This is crap that I would expect from a PVT not a potential SGT
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This is beyond unnerving... especially since female personnel have it very easy when it comes to the PT test. I've struggled to meet the standard numerous times and made an honest effort to do well. I probably had a higher raw score than she did yet I'm being held to a different standard because of my gender.
This is the one reason why I cant wait until the ACFT rolls out...
This is the one reason why I cant wait until the ACFT rolls out...
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Giver her a record APFT, if she fails she’s flagged and barred from promotion, if she really wants the stripes, she’ll pass the APFT, as for the old score, water under the bridge, the new score is what counts as far as record.
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If she knows it was a false score she’s honor bound to report it and if she doesn’t you are . That said if the promotion doesn’t require that score coming clean should not be a problem you can always say as soon as it was realized y’all tried to figured out exactly what to do
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Do a re-test with others that are not under her chain of command. But sounds like a fomplete fail all around. NCO’s are & must be held to a higher standard.
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Well let’s see
... as an NCO the ARMY VALUES are always at play integrity is the top of all we do and lies are lies so with that screw her and all that had a part in the lack of integrity to get her there. That is the same person that will later flag one of their own soldiers for failure to pass their own apft
... as an NCO the ARMY VALUES are always at play integrity is the top of all we do and lies are lies so with that screw her and all that had a part in the lack of integrity to get her there. That is the same person that will later flag one of their own soldiers for failure to pass their own apft
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Simple......get rid of the BS give her another PT test. Move out from there. You CV ant control the past but you can the future. If there is an integrity issue....handle it.....if not.....dont wine about it and make a big stink about it.....give the pt test for record and either promote or flag. It's that simple.
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