Posted on Aug 16, 2017
CPL Metal Worker
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Apologies for my terrible English. Here is the question broken down and explained in what I hope is in better terms.
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
Edited 8 y ago
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1stLt Infantry Officer
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NJP.
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COL Stanley Zezotarski
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It's better for her to fess up. You're right in struggling with your conscience. No matter what the consequences for her, you can't put your own integrity at risk--it's priceless. An option might be to approach her and encourage here to confess to her superiors, then offer moral support by accompanying her. Otherwise, you have no choice but to say it like it is. You don't have to offer her an ultimatum, you just have to say this is a discussion in both your best interests.
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COL Stanley Zezotarski
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She needs to come clean and accept the consequences. You are under no ethical obligation to remain silent about an untruth. Would be ideal if could approach her and ask her to fess up on her own as a matter of honor. But up front with her that as a matter of conscious you cannot go along with this false score. You don't have to give her an ultimatum, it only needs to be a discussion. Heck, you could even offer moral support by accompanying her with your superiors.
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SSG Rheta Perez
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It’s been a while since I had to worry about a PT test, but it seems to me that this makes the army sounds like it’s turning into a bunch of cheaters. I’m disappointed, but not surprised. They wanted women to be on the same level as men, but noting the physical differences, they have to resort to cheating. I have other ideas as to how she was allowed to pass, but I’ll keep those to myself.
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Bob Smithereens
Bob Smithereens
>1 y
I'm not in the military but its apparent that the women "serviced" the NCO in other ways to get a passing score.
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CPO David Sharp
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This is falsifying an official record. All I can see is General Discharge under less than Honorable Conditions. I have no mercy for those who will knowingly put a false record entry.
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SSG Ronald Colwell
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How was it rectified as you commented. She and whoever conspired this should be held accountable for their actions.. so sad that this goes on. I’ve seen it done. After be a scorer and hearing that it was changed by someone higher up
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Cpl Tyler Therrien
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As a Marine her lack of integrity is to me utterly unacceptable. She need to be pulled aside and given the opportunity to come clean on her own or face the music. For you, if she refuses to come clean go 1st to your Sgtmajor and allow the process to work. If you go directly to your xo or co you may piss off the NCOs above you- not advisable LOL
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SSG Samuel Mitrovich
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Edited >1 y ago
Her actions most likely deprived another Soldier of an important promotion. From the information provided, she appears to have no concern that her actions negatively impacted someone else’s career or enlistment and is only worried about being caught. I would bring this to the attention of the chain of command and lose not one night’s sleep or have a single regret.
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MSgt Martin Okulski
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It was cheating - same as if they'd studied together. Same as if friends passed test questions to each other. All involved should receive an article 15 or be dishonarably discharged. People have been reduced in rank as well. It's hard to believe that she wasn't aware she was out of shape. So she lied as well.
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Pvt Robert L. Lamoreaux
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I can only address this from two viewpoints: one as a retired civilian lawyer and one as an Instructor in a chapter of the Young Marines organization when I was 69 and 70 years of age.
As a lawyer, I'd question how the inquirer knew the test result was falsified. Was it intentionally falsified or was it simply a very lenient tester? Or did she really get the score reported but grew out of shape between tests? From the description, it appears that she knew she didn't earn the score, but how badly was it off?
From the standpoint of being an old Instructor, let me say that I ran with the kids and did PT with them, yelling "If I can do it, YOU can do it!" (And I was wearing "utilities" or BDUs and "boondockers" while they were wearing shorts, t-shirts, and sneakers. Thank God for asprin!) My point is, if you want to be a leader you have to be expected to hurt, bleed, and sacrifice...And be honest about your own capabilities. The word "leadership" is already being so diluted and mixed up with "management" that it is losing its honorable meaning. Just my opinion.
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SPC Joseph Weaver
SPC Joseph Weaver
>1 y
A very good Opinion, I am sure all soldiers do not want to fail, at anything. Its not an option ,you are either a go or a no go. a little humility might not be so bad, I have learned that aspect very well. If she failed, then its time for improvement. If she came this far, and wants that promotion, she will crush her P.T. Test
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SSG Dave Johnston
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It's been a year since this question was posted; So what steps did you take to remedy the "questionable" PT score?
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SFC Robert Walton
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Okay to much missing information. How do you know her APFT was falsified? then lets move forward from that.
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SPC Ammunition Specialist
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If you're going to cheat on your APFT, and we all know it happens way more often than many would like to admit, why the hell would you give yourself a 300? Sounds like this soldier is just a really terrible decision maker.
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SFC Tracy Scott
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Edited >1 y ago
I believe there are two issues associated with this current situation.
1. The NCO that indirectly or directly scored the soldier.
2. The Soldier associated with the PT-Test.
The soldier in question from the information provided was given a diagnostic PT-Test for which that soldier (Failed) prior to this, the soldier in question had scored a (300) maximum score on the associated PT-Test as prior to this documents have indicated
Proving the fact that the soldier's Pt-Test was either changed or incorrectly score will be difficult unless the soldier or the NCO scoring or that changed the results admits to the incident ( which by all accounts will not happen)

The soldier that Failed to perform and meet the Minimum required score to receive a passing score should be counseled for the failure, the company commanders, or the Bn directive should be followed as to how Pt test failures are handled.

The NCO associated with the PT-test in question should also be Counseled with regards possible integrity and action unbecoming of a Non-Commisioned Officer, this could be a direct reflection listed and associated with that NCO's NCO'er, the NCO Should also be advised that these allegations are taken seriously and any continued action of this nature will result in corrective action up to and including action under UCMJ. ( this is still suspect to the fact of did or didn't they change or improperly score the test, but the soldier should still be Counseled )

All personnel within the company Training and testing section should also be Counseled as well, and thereafter all personnel selected to conduct and score associated testing should be counseled, in regard to the expectation of the testing area selected required and required performance standard, this will ensure that all personnel have been shown what is acceptable and what is not acceptable as related to the proper scoring, integrity and proper conduct becoming of an NCO.
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SSG Brian G.
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Excuse me? You are a CPL in the US Army. That means that someone, somewhere saw something in you that they liked enough to laterally promote you into a leadership position. Being a leader means you do what is RIGHT, not what is least damaging. If there is a cancer you treat it or excise it before it brings down the whole unit.

From what you have recounted this soldier, that is up for promotion, took a score that was not earned and there is no way, NO WAY, that they did not know they did not earn it. Zero. Every APFT taker has off times and does not perform to their best. EVERY SINGLE ONE. A variation up or down is to be expected. Off tests are going to happen as are tests that are up.

You as a a junior NCO have a DUTY, an OBLIGATION to the Unit, the ARMY and to yourself to take this to your command as clearly this person LACKED the integrity to do so on their own. That person does not belong in a position of leadership and needs further counseling on the morals, ethics and code to BE a leader of soldiers. This person is about to be pinned and placed into a position to lead and influence others that are coming up in ranks behind them. Their behaviour thus far is NOT something one wants to see fostered in the military in any MOS, anywhere.
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SFC Joseph Dunphy
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Refer up the chain, and it ll probably end up with JAG. Since it s a confidential personnel matter, the prudent thing to do is alert the responsible superior, make a memo for the record your self that you documented it as soon as you beceme aware of it, and let those with knowledge of the law and UCMJ figure out the appropriate response. Truly echelons above your pay grade. After documenting it, say nothing about it except to cooperate with the authorities you had to report it to. Don t make two messes to clean up. My personal reaction is that a faked score is unfair to all the soldiers who did what they were supposed to do, and passed, and that a slot would be filled by someone who 1) is depriving a deserving soldier of a promotion and worse 2) is creating dissention in the ranks because it s quite likely that everyone knows that a faked score is not deserved, and it creates tension and disrespect for the commander, whether ot not the commanding officer officially knew about it. The PT test is the way it is for a very important reason--you need to rely on fellow soldiers when the rounds go live.
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SSgt Jeff Moore
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A trash PT score can come back to haunt you in a combat zone. Dead weight can get a soldier killed, and the less he has to carry, the better his chances of survival.
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SFC Phillip Allen
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Falsifying official forms, which a PT scorecard is an official document, is punishable under the UCMJ. Both people are party the grader and the soldier. However failing a diagnostic PT test is not itself punishable, administer a record PT and deal with the results in a professional manner. If the person asking the question knows for a fact and says nothing then they are complicit in a conspiracy, that’s just how it works; either report it because the situation is wrong, or keep your mouth shut because you are not a person of integrity or personal courage; the Army values do actually mean something.
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CW3 Robert Hollister
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What is the chance of her taking another test before she is pinned and passing it?
Never mind, I just saw this post is over a year old. This has been overcome by events.
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PFC Charles Pressel III
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If i may this isnt the only one i have seen several people be passed this way to get the next rank. There are many people who are screwed because the people giving the apft are lie i have seen it happen many times. I also believe she does need to have a real apft and needs to be reevaluated
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