Posted on Aug 16, 2017
What is the most appropriate way to address someone being given a false PT score, while minimizing the damage to their career?
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Apologies for my terrible English. Here is the question broken down and explained in what I hope is in better terms.
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
Article 15
Fraud
APFT
UCMJ
Promotions
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 244
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The bottom line is there is a standard and it obviously was not met. If there are questions regarding the standard, one need only consult their HCoC or the proper regulations.
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You'll have to appeal to her to do the right thing and have it reassessed. We're not talking about a few points here ; the score is too high ( perfect ) vs actual failing . THAT is no minor discrepancy and it matters especially in the field . Your English is excellent btw , you must be a smart, hard working soldier , we need more bilingual folks .
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There is an old saying that fits what I have perfectly; Honestly is the best policy,
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Regardless of the reason, that previous PT Test was pencil-whipped. If she knew about this, she, and that NCO who fudged the score are FUCKED!!!! The only way I see this NOT being pursued, and since you said this was a diagnostic, is she takes another PT test and passes it. If she fails THAT ONE, BOTH OF THEM ARE FUCKED!!!
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The OP is not clear on how it's "known" that the soldier's previous PT test was falsified. As I said earlier, it's either known, or it's suspected and this young leader, a CPL, (over a newly promoted Sergeant?, not sure how that works) Should deal with what is in front of himself, and not on suspicions. This soldier failed an APFT, deal with that. If the soldier admitted to the falsified PT Test, deal with that.
If the OP is making an assumption of wrong-doing then he is making a terrible mistake. There are many reasons a soldier can have a bad PT Test. All of you senior leaders should have recognized this problem yet few have. I commend those who are thinking right, and although I do not challenge the ethics of you others, I will throw down my BS card on your ill-considered rush to urge an inquisition without specific proof of wrong-doing. Which one of you are going to ask "How specifically, do you know the PT Test was falsified?"
If the OP is making an assumption of wrong-doing then he is making a terrible mistake. There are many reasons a soldier can have a bad PT Test. All of you senior leaders should have recognized this problem yet few have. I commend those who are thinking right, and although I do not challenge the ethics of you others, I will throw down my BS card on your ill-considered rush to urge an inquisition without specific proof of wrong-doing. Which one of you are going to ask "How specifically, do you know the PT Test was falsified?"
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If there was suspicion before she pcs’s, it should have been dealt with then. Now that she has moved on, she can either try to hide behind the lie(which will eventually come to light) or she can fess up now and deal with the consequences. I honestly have no respect for Soldiers who will do thing in their own best interest and are not what we need leading troops, either in garrison or deployments.
If her immediate supervisors knew their Soldier, they would have notice the discrepancy after the 300 and addressed it with the Soldier along with the chain of command. I feel this goes a little deeper than one Soldier.
If her immediate supervisors knew their Soldier, they would have notice the discrepancy after the 300 and addressed it with the Soldier along with the chain of command. I feel this goes a little deeper than one Soldier.
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The violation of the UCMJ is “False Official Statement” and Art. 134 “Conduct contrary to the Good Order & Discipline of the Armed Forces”.
This unqualified service member is preventing another qualified member from promotions and assignments of greater responsibility and leadership.
Discharge the miscreant.
This unqualified service member is preventing another qualified member from promotions and assignments of greater responsibility and leadership.
Discharge the miscreant.
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I was told by a commander once to not come to the table without some sort of solution to the problem. First of all, an NCO should be forthcoming. If you let a problem be, it only gets bigger. She should at least say what happened, and be willing to take another PT test on the spot. And seriously, don't make a mountain out of a diagnostic, you can take several of those in any given year. So tell her to be honest, and be willing to take another. If she loses rank, she still has integrity. Integrity and honesty will guide her right back to being an NCO.
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She just needs to buckle down, get back in the groove and pass the test and accept the promotion. She'll go nowhere until she passed. That NCO did her no favor by falseling the report
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iF THE PT SCORE WAS A FRAUD THEN THERE ARE TWO INDIVIDUALS THAT COMMITTED THIS FRAUD. IF THE PERFORMANCE HAS BEEN NOTE WORTHY AND GOOD A POSSIBLE DO OVER TO THE PT AND DEMOTION. FRAUD IS NOT TOLERATED IN THE MILITARY, IF YOU WOULD LIE ABOUT ONE THING WHAT ELSE ARE YOU CAPABLE OF BEING DECEPTIVE ABOUT AND HOW FAR ARE YOU WILLING TO GO WITH THIS DECEPTION. TRUTH HONOR COURAGE DEDICATION. THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE WITHIN A SOLDIER NO MATTER WHAT BRANCH THEY SERVE. THE CHAIN OF COMMAND NEEDS TO BE INVOLVED FOR THIS REASON IT IS THE DUTY OF ALL IN THE CHAIN TO REPORT INCIDENTS. AND ANY ALONG THAT CHAIN CAN SAY YEA OR NAY.
I AM 72 NOW AND THIS IS STILL MY MILITARY ALSO. REMEMBER WE WERE OR STILL ARE ( GI"S) GENERAL ISSUE RUES AND TRUST ARE WHAT MAKE A UNIT GREAT, AND IT ALL STARTS WITH AN INDIVIDUAL.
ET PO2, MR3 CMBT ENG, SGT, PATHFINDER
JUST MY OPINION
I AM 72 NOW AND THIS IS STILL MY MILITARY ALSO. REMEMBER WE WERE OR STILL ARE ( GI"S) GENERAL ISSUE RUES AND TRUST ARE WHAT MAKE A UNIT GREAT, AND IT ALL STARTS WITH AN INDIVIDUAL.
ET PO2, MR3 CMBT ENG, SGT, PATHFINDER
JUST MY OPINION
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