Posted on Oct 23, 2015
SSG Infantryman
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What is it that the cadre and policy makers in NCOES schools think they are accomplishing by suppressing 240 years of culture. Secondly, I don't know of anyone who after the school was like "oh I better not cuss now I'm a warrior leader"
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Responses: 142
1SG Robert Bodeman
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Edited >1 y ago
ok enough with bashing NCO schools !!! FIRST // the NO CURSING rule in ANY military schools has been established back when they first started the NCO ACADEMY. The MAIN reason is PROFESSIONALLISM, RESPECT, HONOR, and CHARACTER - - if TRNG SENIOR SGTs were CURSING at you for everything, you would feel disrespected and in some cases soldiers would fail, or have no reason to continue, BUT to keep up HONOR is to treat, speak without cursing would build your character in a RESPECTFUL way. SECOND // when you are in charge of a group of soldiers, it would be nice to hear SGT's speak with out cursing to get his point across, thats the challenge, your SQUAD or PLATOON RESPECTING you because you do not curse at them, you speak with HONOR, you show them you've been educated by the BEST, you follow the NCO CREED, you want your men and women to follow you, you want them to RESPECT you, you want them to SPEAK highly of you, not belittle you behind your back, then other NCOs hear it and now your screwed, can not fix it, except transfer and start over, THIRD // as CSM AYALA taught me, EDUCATION is the key to success, how you use it will make you or break you, PROFANITY has no room in my brain, but RESPECT, HONOR, DUTY, as an NCO growing to be the ARMY's finest, you have a DUTY to your men and women to treat them fairly with respect FOURTH // YOUR MEN AND WOMEN IS THE EXTENSION OF YOU, HOW THEY BEHAVE, TALK, AND ACT IS HOW YOU TREAT THEM
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CSM Troy McGilvray
CSM Troy McGilvray
8 y
I don't know when the NCO Academys were started. I attended the NCO Academy at Ft. Hood in about 1959 or 1960. Even then we were taught that effective leaders did not need to use profanity when leading troops, so I never used it in my 26+ years. It wasn't necessary. I had the respect of the officers and troops in both my battalions I served as CSM. I also served on the brigade as well as division staffs.....no profanity was needed.
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CPL Glenn Cariaga
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I think it shows discipline. The ability to turn cussing on or off is an outward sign of the inward ability for any soldier to turn a habit into a conscious decision. We talk all time about "channeling our emotions." As professionals, one cannot be making life/death decisions based purely on emotions. If one cannot control one's speech in a controlled, how much more difficult would it be to keep it together in more stressful situations?
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SGT Transportation Management Coordinator
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There is no need for it. I don't cuss around my kids so there is no need to cuss around people. In combat or not.
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COL John Power
COL John Power
>1 y
Well said and simply said. No muss; no fuss. I'm pleased so many at all levels have a clear understanding of why the profligate use of profanity is just a bad leadership practice. Believe it or not there are soldiers that are uncomfortable and offended by such language. You aren't impressing them; you are turning them off. If you don't understand that it is time you woke up.
Great answer, SGT Antoine!
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CSM Troy McGilvray
CSM Troy McGilvray
8 y
I agree with you, COL!
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SGT Transportation Management Coordinator
SGT (Join to see)
8 y
COL John Power - Thank you sir.
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CW3 Jim Norris
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To paraphrase a noted author, 'profanity is a vain attempt by a weak mind to express itself forcefully'. The unfortunate truth is that profanity no longer has any impact on the response of others because it is so common place and used for no reason. In former days the utterance of profanity by a leader was reserved for an appropriate place, time and circumstance - and they very seldom occurred, so the led understood clearly the urgency that was being expressed. Today the rampant use of profane language has not only weakened the leadership position of the one using it, it has dulled the senses of those to whom it is directed. Make no mistake, I have used profane language in combat situations, often under my breath as a release mechanism for my own foreboding. However I found the greatest impact upon my platoon was to see me in apparent calm instructing and guiding their actions. You will find that cool waters temper steel, and that includes the backbones of others. Calm yourself, express the needed orders, in clear, concise and unambiguous voice and you will become that leader that your soldiers will respect and look to in times of greatest stress. A great example is the found in the movie We where solider once and young, recounting the Battle of Ia Drangin Vietnam. According to the actual commander on the ground there, the movie accurately portrays the Sergeant Major's demeanor during combat. I recommend strongly that you watch this man's portrayal and it's effect upon those about him.
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SPC William Weedman
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I always figured it was attention to detail, not unlike which way one's boots were laced, as I understand it swapped each day (left lace over right lace and vice versa). It is also easier to understand an instructor if you don't have to wade through language that is unneeded for instruction. When I was in the NG during a local snow emergency, the only soldier who was able to access our armory during the first hours was our full-time motor sergeant. A friend and I were about to fall out of our chairs watching him attempt to address the reporters without his "normal" foul language spilling out. He was eventually saved by another soldier who was able to allow him to first do his job and do it with his usual colorful language.
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SSG Mannix Brooks
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The purpose is to reflect changes made in the military structure with women being allowed in combat jobs, people being allowed to serve openly regardless of gender preference and with the kids
being recruited today as in if there is no direct rule against doing something they will exploit is to the maximum. I was a tanker before I moved over to Signal when I was in the military so I had to make a change to the frequency of use, times, volume and places where I used profanity or I would not have made it, same thing applies to the current situation for everyone else now.
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SSG Audwin Scott
SSG Audwin Scott
>1 y
SSG Brooks, you know as well as I do some females can cuss just as well as a male soldier.. I tried not to cuss as much but we will see how long this last.
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SSG Mannix Brooks
SSG Mannix Brooks
>1 y
I really think this is just part of downsizing. When you trim the fat and there is none left making distinctions between who should stay or go becomes that much harder so it is coming down to either upsetting people enough they get out on their own or holding them accountable for the violating the next new rule that gets dreamed up and this is just the start.
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SFC Mark Bailey
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The use of profanity when giving orders, especially when time is critical and the situation is not one where you can use as many words as I am doing now can not be understated.

If one of my Infantry soldiers would have had a problem with me yelling "Move your ASS DAMMIT...!!!", I personally think the rest of the Platoon would have given him 'noogies' for weeks afterwards. To me, it was a Brevity Code that carried as much weight as the rest of the sentence I was screaming out.

For WLC (PLDC) to waste even a moment of their valuable time in attempting to change this very basic part of human nature is not only a travesty, but a complete waste of the allocated training time that could have been better used to reinforce values such as Honor, Self-Sacrifice, and Personal Standards being set so that junior enlisted can take heed and take heart.

My soldiers always came first, and they knew that
The lives and the welfare of my troops was of paramount importance, and followed in the tradition of "Mission FIRST, People ALWAYS". Which is a mis-nomer and actually if read and understood means you have ALREADY taken care of your soldiers before the Mission was ever assigned.

My only words for the Politically Correct (yet completed misguided) Leader that signed off on this monumental waste of time in the building block school of NCO culture?

STOP PISSING AWAY DAYLIGHT, and Move your ASS DAMMIT...!!!!
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SFC David Pope, MBA
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"Profanity is a sign of a week mind trying to sound intelligent, but failing miserably in the process." -Gordon B. Hinkley. I work in the reinforcing steel industry, and iron workers could make a sailor cry with how much they drop the f-bomb. I have been working on my boss for a few years training him to not swear continually as we meet new clients. As VP of Operations I can get away with criticizing him. He is getting better, he is down to 8 f-bombs per conversation!
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SSG Katherine Likely
SSG Katherine Likely
8 y
I can stand some cussing but the F bomb loaded conversation I could not and would have no problem letting him know in words he could clearly understand.
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COL John Power
COL John Power
7 y
When I was a teenager I probably used every word known at the time. As I grew older (and I hope wiser) I ceased that behavior. Today it is extremely rare and if I were subjected to participation in an F-bomb laden conversation I would cringe and excuse myself. Later I would explain it in no uncertain terms, even to a boss. I love having the freedom to do that; others probably don't and that is too bad. I consider profanity-laced berating of someone a form of harassment.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
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When I went "Grass to Brass", the Commandant of OCS at the time allowed no profanity. It didn't seem to slow him down at all when it came to chewing butt. I've seen and been on the receiving end of a couple that were masterful but non profane. I admired him for it.

I didn't always follow his example in my career.
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SSG Air Movement Coordinator
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In all honesty as professionals we shouldn't be cursing any ways. I try to keep my sentence enhancers to myself. We all know their is a time and place to set your hat down and let it fly.
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