Posted on Jun 11, 2015
What is your 'favorite' example of perceived or real UCMJ injustice?
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Most times UCMJ is fair. Other times it is blatantly not. Do you have a specific example that sticks in your craw?
I do. Once under a female Battalion Commander, there was a case where two married SPCs (married to other people and not each other) decided to have an affair. The female's spouse found out and actually video taped one of their indiscretions and mailed it to the BN CDR. Neither SPC had any kids and had about the same DOR and TIG. The result? Both received extra duty but he was reduced in rank and paid a fine. She lost no rank and had suspended pay reduction. WTF?
I wasn't in the room but off the cuff it looked wrong.
I do. Once under a female Battalion Commander, there was a case where two married SPCs (married to other people and not each other) decided to have an affair. The female's spouse found out and actually video taped one of their indiscretions and mailed it to the BN CDR. Neither SPC had any kids and had about the same DOR and TIG. The result? Both received extra duty but he was reduced in rank and paid a fine. She lost no rank and had suspended pay reduction. WTF?
I wasn't in the room but off the cuff it looked wrong.
UCMJ
Adultery
Justice
Court Martial
Law
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 27
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I sit on a court marshal for a man who went AWOL. His reason, he got a Red Cross notification that his Dad was dying. His commander refused him leave because he had just returned for a two week leave.
Frankly we (court) all believed that we should be trying the commander instead of the airman.
Frankly we (court) all believed that we should be trying the commander instead of the airman.
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Capt (Join to see)
Sgt (Join to see) - Four out of five agreed with your comments. Emergency leave should always be granted unless it is not possible.
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PV2 Glen Lewis
He should've been given leave to go to his Father's funeral and any punishment for his AWOL should have been applied afterward. The two week leave should've had no bearing in this matter. Unfair and unfeeling.
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SGT David Scott
When I was a private at Fort Bragg, I went on leave with a friend to visit his family in Detroit. while I was there, his family's house burned down. I know this wasn't my family, but I called my Squad Leader and told him the situation. He told me he had nothing to do with it and to call the Asst Platoon SGT. I did, and he told me to call the Platoon SGT. I did, and the Platoon SGt told me it was ok to stay there to help them out for a few more days(I was the guys ride up there), just fill out the paperwork when I get back and they will change the days I was on leave. when I got back, I found out that I was considered AWOL and was facing a Field grade Article 15. I was pissed but I didn't know what to do. I was a private after all. Then a few days before I had to face the commander, I was cleaning up the battalion building and a SM was in there. He asked me how I was doing being new to the Unit( Was there for a few months) and for some reason, I told him what happened. He told me to write down everything that was said from the moment I spoke with my SQD LDR to my PLT SGT and have it presented to the Commander. The morning of the meeting, while I was standing outside the commanders door with my SQD LDR and ASst PLT SGT, I gave my SQD LDR my statement. he read it and frowned, then he gave it to the ASST PLT SGT. He looked like he saw a ghost! When my PLT SGT came out, he read it. he paused and told me that he would back me if I didn't give this to the commander. I knew I was going to get some kind of punishment, I didn't want to lose rank or pay. so I told him ok, but I will hold onto my statement. in the end I only got a company grade and 7 days extra duty.
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Come on everyone. If I was to have classified information sent to my server for my convenience without chain of command approval. Any soldier would be under UMCJ action. I do not give a damn who you are, or what your position of authority is. Anyone who lies to the American people tells the Egyptian president, and her daughter something different, is total BS. In addition, doing
foundation funding on your blackberry, and having your top lawyer advisor and aide flying from d.c. to New York to do a interview for the foundation. On my tax payer Federal government time, WTF? In addition, and Clinton's aide being hired for the state department and the clinton foundation, conflict of interest. Again, this is the classic example of the email, Benghazi, and money laundering. This is Federal injustice.
foundation funding on your blackberry, and having your top lawyer advisor and aide flying from d.c. to New York to do a interview for the foundation. On my tax payer Federal government time, WTF? In addition, and Clinton's aide being hired for the state department and the clinton foundation, conflict of interest. Again, this is the classic example of the email, Benghazi, and money laundering. This is Federal injustice.
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COL (Join to see)
Well, if your name starts with Hillary and ends with Clinton, then you're in luck...you are innocent! But, we only need to look as far as what many of our senior leaders do and ask the same question....
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SSG Michael Scott
And Sir, after doing the Risk Assessment, the Senior Leaders and not looking too good.
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MSG Michael McEleney
SFC (Join to see) -
Oral sex is SODOMY, that's how BC got away with saying he didn't commit adultury.
Oral sex is SODOMY, that's how BC got away with saying he didn't commit adultury.
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SFC (Join to see)
Clinton, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman...
Clinton denies the lewinsky affair
OK I put one of my soldiers in Manheim for sodomy. What he said was I did not have sexual relations with that woman
https://youtu.be/KiIP_KDQmXs
https://youtu.be/KiIP_KDQmXs
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I'm a great believer in equal justice under the law-civilian or military. I was stationed in Europe (I'll leave it at that) and the WIFE of my Weapons Officer (a mustang LDO-who I liked) got into it with a little Marine Lcpl female-type (who was fairly attractive) at our "all-ranks" club(Never liked that idea either) I don't know what happened-who said what to who, but there was a scuffle. (I wasn't there, having gone TAD for a few days to "Income Tax Advisor school-I was OpsO). I got back and the WepsO was in my office-doing some paperwork. I looked at him and said "What's up?" He told me he was pulled out of his dept, and taken off PRP, because some people said he was "impaired" (drunk), and should have stopped his wife from scuffling with the female Marine. He wasn't in the same room at the time!! (WTF??) I was INCREDULOUS! " You're off PRP, and banished down here? What happened to her?" (the female Marine) . Apparently, she went to "Office Hours" and got a restriction and a suspended bust (in other words, be good for six months and nothing will come of it!) . Meanwhile, the WepsO's career was ruined, and was sent back to the States and returned to enlisted status!!!! He'd been a LTJG!!! It was JUST TERRIBLE. I never forgot it. So completely unequal and unjust, and it emboldened the Marine CO (that's another story). For what happened to the LTJG, she should AT LEAST have lost a stripe, maybe even a bust down to E-1. It was horrifically unjust. It still pisses me off as I write it.
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Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, that's all I can say. Want an assurance this kind of thing won't happen to you? Don't break the law, and have good moral fiber to prove that you deserve to wear the uniform. With the amount of good people who have served to build the reputation we have, I could give a shit about some SPC cheating on his wife and getting in trouble for it. Nuff said.
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CW3 (Join to see)
No, not enough said. The SPC was cheating on his wife with a female SPC who was cheating on her husband. Why the discrepancy in punishments?
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I knew an E-5 who just could NOT stop failing his PT tests. He had failed four in a row, and whereas most people would be gone after that, he simply got an LOC. This was a guy who was quite chummy with the SNCOs and a few of the officers in the squadron. Flash forward about a year and a half; I failed a PT test. Same commander, same SNCOs. I was in bright and early the next morning in my blues at attention in front of the Commander receiving an LOA (this was my first-ever, and only to date, failure).
I brought it up to the Shirt at the time and my supervisor, but it sort of bled away into nothing (also found out the LOA was never placed in my PIF). It was a very interesting situation.
I brought it up to the Shirt at the time and my supervisor, but it sort of bled away into nothing (also found out the LOA was never placed in my PIF). It was a very interesting situation.
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MSgt John McGowan
SSgt. I found out sometimes it.s who you know before things get corrected. I knew enough people at a couple of bases where if I wanted I could fix things if you know what I mean.
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CW4 Steve Hansen
Avoid putting yourself in that situation. I was maxing my PT test when I was forty years old.
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Way back in the dark ages, 1983, I was a PO3 and pregnant with my first child. I was stationed in a very top heavy command and Captains (O6) took turns doing Mast. My Captain came into the office on a break to ask my opinion. That morning he had 2 male Sailors before him for UA and he gave them the maximum. After the break he was going to have 2 pregnant Sailors also for UA, their Chief wanted him to go easy on them because they were pregnant and experienced morning sickness. My boss wanted to know if I had morning sickness and if so, how I got to work on time. I started laughing and told him I got up an hour earlier so I could throw up, get cleaned up and get to work on time. He gave the pregnant Sailors the same punishment as those he saw earlier.
So, sometimes Mast does come out right!
So, sometimes Mast does come out right!
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SMSgt (Join to see)
I don't think the Chief would have had the same opinion, if he had a pregnant sailor - throw up on him. Not everyone get "morning sickness" just in the AM - I had it some day - 3 to 5 times a day. And there were times that I almost didn't make it to the bathroom at work. I don't think anyone else would have wanted to clean up the chief or the mess. To be fair doesn't always mean going with what is the perceived fair justice. It depends on the action, who took the action, what status they were in at the time - AD, non-drill status, etc. Looking at it from the outside - you don't have the whole story and can judge without all the facts.
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SCPO Penny Douphinett
SMSgt (Join to see) - I did have all the facts, but I did abbreviate the whole episode down to key points. Which was active duty servicewomen are professionals and are expected to act that way. Part of that is reporting for duty on time unless there are medical reasons for not doing so which these women did not have. The point of this whole thread was that UCMJ is generally unfair; I added my 2 cents that in this case there was fairness. If I had said the Captain had let the 2 women off without discipline, I'm guessing it would have struck a nerve that some (not all, some) women have used their pregnancy to get out of things they didn't want to do.
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UCMJ and justice, is that a real thing? Lol. I would say I heard less UCMJ justice than injustice. Buddy of mine was drunk, but took a cab back to base instead of driving. Cab driver tried to rob him, and he broke a window out of the cab. He was arrested, and after the police investigation, they saw that this cab driver had several complaints against him and put a warrant out for his arrest. All charges were dropped against my buddy.
Battalion NJP'd him this purple heart recipient with 45 days of restriction and loss of pay for "not signing out in the liberty log book." The funny part: he was married, and married Marines were exempt from signing out in the liberty log book (this is in the United States). Even funnier than that... he DID sign out in the liberty log book. He brought it up to the chain of command... went back to the liberty logbook and the page was ripped out (pretty sure that's against the law). My buddy took a picture of it on his phone, but he didn't even care anymore. Hilarious. From my 4 years in the Marine Corps, I could come up with dozens of examples of the hilarity of military "justice." hahaha
Battalion NJP'd him this purple heart recipient with 45 days of restriction and loss of pay for "not signing out in the liberty log book." The funny part: he was married, and married Marines were exempt from signing out in the liberty log book (this is in the United States). Even funnier than that... he DID sign out in the liberty log book. He brought it up to the chain of command... went back to the liberty logbook and the page was ripped out (pretty sure that's against the law). My buddy took a picture of it on his phone, but he didn't even care anymore. Hilarious. From my 4 years in the Marine Corps, I could come up with dozens of examples of the hilarity of military "justice." hahaha
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Around 2007 or so, one of the subordinates in my platoon were training in the field and he had been up for several hours. When being questioned by a SFC (E7), he fell asleep and fell to the ground. He supposedly received UCMJ (NJP to other folks) for sleeping on duty. I think that's pretty ridiculous if that is true. It seems him passing out was involuntary but maybe he should have been doing jumping jacks to stay awake.
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TSgt (Join to see)
Not sure about your guy, but when I'm sleepy, doing anything physical just drains me more. I don't get that dopamine boost everyone else seems to. After PT, I just wanna crawl to the nearest bed and sleep for as long as humanly possible.
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SGM (Join to see)
TSgt (Join to see) - You may have a physical problem like chronic fatigue syndrome or a thyroid problem. I would mention it to your Primary Care Physician the next time you have a doctor's appointment. That's not a normal reaction, but is common in a number of known illnesses.
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TSgt (Join to see)
SGM Dr. Dave Hatfield - I have been a shift worker for ten years (mostly Panama Schedule, but have worked various other types). Could that be a contributor? I also was a chronic insomniac before I joined and received growth hormone for my height (my growth plates had stopped prematurely).
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SSG (ret) William Martin
Maybe it was an intense butt chewing and the NCO was so disgusted they though punishment was the best option.
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I've known of quite a few E7 and above years ago that got DUI's. Based on my perception, the Chain of Command "swept it under the rug" and gave them restriction and maybe a fine.
But the same crime committed by E6 and below netted in automatic reduction in rank along with restrictions and lost money.
I always thought the Chain didn't want the "hassle" of taking the E7 and above to Courts Martial or Admiral's Mast that is needed to reduce an E7 and above in rank (It is a common misconception that it takes an act of Congress to bust a Chief).
But the same crime committed by E6 and below netted in automatic reduction in rank along with restrictions and lost money.
I always thought the Chain didn't want the "hassle" of taking the E7 and above to Courts Martial or Admiral's Mast that is needed to reduce an E7 and above in rank (It is a common misconception that it takes an act of Congress to bust a Chief).
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MCPO Roger Collins
SCPO Joshua I - I had the restriction thing tried on me as a MCPO, needless to say it didn't work out as well as my wardroom had hoped. Long story.
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PO1 John Miller
PO1 Chris V.
A frocked Chief when I was stationed in London transferred to Italy, got busted fucking a PO2 who worked for him. Since he was still getting paid as a First Class, he became a YN2.
A frocked Chief when I was stationed in London transferred to Italy, got busted fucking a PO2 who worked for him. Since he was still getting paid as a First Class, he became a YN2.
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SCPO Joshua I
PO1 Chris V. - that "defrocking" was likely accompanied by an evaluation or letter that ended that guy's career.
NJP details aren't always published, but again, we don't sweep that stuff under the rug - at least not anymore. I've been a Chief for 12 years - we really do handle that stuff and I don't mean by covering it up.
Continuation board is a very real thing. Not recommended evaluations can also keep someone from retiring.
NJP details aren't always published, but again, we don't sweep that stuff under the rug - at least not anymore. I've been a Chief for 12 years - we really do handle that stuff and I don't mean by covering it up.
Continuation board is a very real thing. Not recommended evaluations can also keep someone from retiring.
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PO1 John Miller
SCPO Joshua I
I have noticed that Navy Crimes, I mean Times, has started publishing Court Martial results, to include ALL hands.
I have noticed that Navy Crimes, I mean Times, has started publishing Court Martial results, to include ALL hands.
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