Posted on Jan 2, 2015
CW5 Desk Officer
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Copwatching
Is this necessary in our society, especially after the Michael Brown and Eric Garner deaths? Or are these folks taking it too far?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/02/texas-gun-nuts-police-the-police-with-a-black-panthers-tactic.html
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PO3 John Jeter
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Cop watching is a legal activity which is currently a fad that seems to attract the bored and those who have nothing constructive to do. In time most of these people will find another stylish fad to make them feel like they have a purpose. The question of the moment seems to be will it be before or after some idiot does something stupid with a gun and gets shot? Texas does not allow open carry of handguns with the exception of some black powder models. So if you show up being aggressive and flaunting a revolver on your hip you can count on an active and vigorous response. Even after they determine that the weapon is legal (whether it be long gun or black powder revolver) they are still going to be highly focused on someone acting up while carrying a firearm. If I were on a jury deciding on an "obstruction" charge I would almost certainly side with the officer. If an officer were to be wounded or (God forbid) killed because of their activities, I'm sure they would face charges of aiding and abetting at the least. If these guys are serious about making a difference, leave the guns at home and schedule ride-alongs through the Department. Set some ground rules that will keep everyone safe.
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CW5 Desk Officer
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Ride-alongs? Great idea, PO3 John Jeter!
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PO3 John Jeter
PO3 John Jeter
11 y
Most PD's in major cities have ride-along programs in place and encourage civilians to take part to learn and understand about police work and to get familiar with the Officers so you're dealing with a person rather than a figure. Smaller town departments very seldom object if you call and make arrangements beforehand. The main thing is to come to an understanding on liability issues and to set behavior limits (ie; don't get in the way and don't try to 'help' without a request from the officer). If the observer has complaints or objections they can wait until you get back to the station to be addressed without distractions.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
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Like many other things, if the cop is doing what they are suppose to be doing and the person filming isn't interfering then the cop has nothing to worry about. Unfortunately, many of the videos I have seen are of cops clearly over stepping the law or just as bad, completely ignorant of the law.
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CW5 Desk Officer
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That's the accountability piece. I haven't seen it up close and personally, but I have seen it from a distance - where I thought the police were going too far. They had about ten cops around one individual who was cooperating 100% and was already in cuffs. I didn't understand why they needed all those police for that, but, of course, I didn't know the whole story.

While I am a supporter of the police, I think it's very easy for police officers to abuse the authority they have, and that's when things are most likely to go wrong.
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CSM Michael J. Uhlig
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I don't have a problem with citizens watching the police as long as they don't get in the way of the Police doing their jobs.

Not sure of the need to carry a weapon in a drop holster and a belt holster as well...I assume the picture is of a law enforcement or military member based on the holsters.
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CW5 Desk Officer
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I'm not sure about the picture, CSM Michael J. Uhlig. I do agree that weapons on the watchers are a bit much. Makes it seem like they're looking for trouble.

Thanks for the feedback.
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CMSgt James Nolan
CMSgt James Nolan
11 y
CSM Michael J. Uhlig I think that is the guy watching. This is the problem that I have with these groups. They 1. are willing to get in the way because they are "right" and smarter than the police and 2. They are in the point making business, which in my own opinion makes them dangerous.

My argument is this: If you really truly feel that strongly about it, apply to the PD and institute change by doing the work.

I have no issues, with open carry. Have yet, in my career to have a problem from a law abiding citizen. Criminals, another matter.
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MSG Mitch Dowler
MSG Mitch Dowler
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CW5 Montgomery we are all Citizens first and Citizens have a right to be armed. I am just about always armed. Government and law enforcement have no rights save those granted by the Citizens. Government and police should only be armed at the pleasure of Citizens. In nations where the people are subjects the people have no rights whatsoever only the privileges temporally lent them by government.
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Maj Force Support
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It's necessary but not because of the Michael Brown or Eric Garner deaths.
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PFC Jim Mills
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Unfortunately in today's society everyone has to watch everyone and everyone has to watch what there doing! I believe there are wonderful law enforcement folks out their but i can tell you there are some very crooked law enforcement aswell as corrupt da,s and judges
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CW5 Desk Officer
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I agree, PFC Jim Mills. On the whole, I'm a fan of the police for what they do, but there always seems to be a few - in every profession - who bring discredit on the rest of the honest, hard-working folks. I guess it's those few that the cop watchers are watching for.
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PFC Jim Mills
PFC Jim Mills
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Thanks for your response chief and i agree
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PVT Infantryman
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Several points - the photo is misleading. The article to which this thread seems to be referring can be found below. In Texas it is lawful to openly carry a long-arm. To carry openly as depicted in the photo is illegal. The guy in the article was legally, openly, carrying a long-arm and an antique side-arm which is also legal. Given the increasingly documented militarization of different law enforcement (and some non-police gov't agencies) I think it is highly appropriate for us, as citizens, to assert our rights.

Some have said it is threatening behavior to openly carry a long- or side-arm. My response is that doing so legally is not threatening. It is up to the individual officer to use his discretion regarding whether or not someone is carrying their long-arm in a threatening manner (generally, if it's slung over a shoulder or across the back you're good), and then to disarm the person in accordance with the law.

Are gun owners who exercise their right to carry a weapon openly where legal "idiots?" Of course everyone has their opinion, but my question is this: "Is a right that is not exercised really a right?" Put another way "A right not exercised is a right lost."
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CW5 Desk Officer
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Thanks for your feedback, PVT (Join to see). That picture came with the article at thedailybeast.com. They also included the picture of the two police officers and one citizen carrying a long gun.

I think the "idiot" comment has to do with people showing up to "watch cops" with their own guns. Sure, they have the right to do that, but what purpose does it serve - does it serve any purpose? - other than to potentially increase tension that's probably already high.
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PVT Infantryman
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CW5 (Join to see) The purpose is as I first mentioned - it's legal, it's their right to do so, and citizens should not be cowed into fearing to exercise their rights simply because another group doesn't want them to.

As to "cop watching?" I encourage it. If that's your thing, then more power to you. Citizens (inlcuding gov't agents) are not above the law which includes not having a right to privacy in a public area. There are cameras everywhere, just look up then next time you pull up to a stop light. If it is legal to record proceedings in a public space in your state, then, by all means, do it. Gov't agents should always act as if they are being watched by the public at large. Not doing so tacitally encourages abuses of power and authority.
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PVT Infantryman
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CW5 (Join to see) My apologies regarding the link I included. I mistakenly assumed that we had read the same article. Clearly we did not, but I am glad I posted it. The article posted to the daily beast seems a bit more opinionated and editorial than simple reporting.
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CW5 Desk Officer
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No problem. I agree about the two articles. The one I posted seems to sensationalize things a bit, starting with the inaccurate picture for Texas.
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PV2 Senior Web Designer, Web Team Lead
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The cop watchers are attention seeking media whores(sorry but they tick me off) looking for an excuse to scapegoat good officers doing their jobs. Even with the number of high profile incidents, it's still only a very small fraction and to label all police officers as bad is wrong. They put their lives on the line for the public safety every day, and go to work not knowing if it will be their last day or not. The least we can do is stay the hell out of their way and let them do their jobs.
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SSG (ret) William Martin
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Someone is going to die sooner or later. Someone is going to get stupid; all a police officer needs is a perception their life and safety is in danger and they are legally within their authority to dispatch lethal force on an individual. Also, showing up to traffic stops is stupid and unsafe. It is also very distracting to the police officer. Two most dangerous incidents a police officer can answer a call to is a traffic stop and a domestic and so these "cop watchers" want to show up. It is one thing to show up and film at a distance but to show up, invade the police officer's space and to run their mouth with displaying aggression is interfering with a public duty.
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CW5 Desk Officer
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Agreed, SSG (ret) William Martin, but I think it should be okay to stand out of the way (well out of the way) and watch the cops. When that becomes not okay, then I think we're sliding in the direction of a police state. Again, though, I stress -- OUT OF THE WAY, and not interfering.

Thanks for your input.
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Sgt Packy Flickinger
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Bad cops are few and far between. If you notice, every guy in the news shot by a cop was either committing a crime or had numerous arrests in the past.

There are a few bad shoots but how come the media doesn't say anything about the Gilbert Collars of the world? Or the numerous white people shot or attacked (knockout game) by black individuals.
Don't get me wrong, I am NOT saying that blacks are criminals any more than anybody else. I am saying that this whole race war is being fueled by a biased, inaccurate media.
Police do a necessary job and most do it properly. The hate mongers and media need to go away.
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SFC Platoon Sergeant
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While I do believe there is a problem within many police forces, this is a disaster waiting to happen. Someone is going to get killed and it will be the fault of these “activist” for intentionally creating a volatile situation.
I do believe in police oversight and I think the body-cams are the way to go.
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