Posted on Aug 25, 2018
SFC Career Counselor
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SFC Platoon Sergeant
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I am reclassing right now so I am currently at AIT at Fort Sill. If I could change one thing it would be the way everyone walks on their tiptoes around privates. Scared to say certain things because it might be considered offensive. Platoon Sgts and instructors are the only ones that are supposed to correct the privates. I was told on day one (as a SSG), leave the privates alone, dont correct them, dont wake them up etc....these kids sleep through class, the instructor threatens them with counselings but they never happen. When they do get "smoked", its 10 push ups and a couple power jumps. Really weak. No hardcore ass chewings. No knife hands. Was a big culture shock coming from the Corps to the Army.
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MAJ Integration Officer
MAJ (Join to see)
>1 y
Glad I didn’t know I couldn’t correct tech school Soldiers when I was at a class on an installation that housed a tech school.

In just one day, walking a couple blocks, I passed three groups of Soldiers who didn’t know how to render a proper hand salute. I’ll be damned if I’m setting the new standard that it’s ok to ignore our Customs & Courtesies.

That said, however, I didn’t rip anyone’s head off. A simple corrective statement like “hey, you know what you’re supposed to do” or “don’t forget our Customs & Courtesies” works fine.

The tendency to conduct “remedial PT” for everything is R-word. Just make sure the subject is taking the corrective counseling seriously.
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SGT Retired
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1SG (Join to see) - Negative. Im not arguing that TRADOC does not fall under 350-6. Please note, I didn’t mention 350-6 in my response.

I understand what I quoted in ch. 3. If you reread it, I think the key sentence from the paragraph is, “Initial Military Training includes developing baseline proficiency of common core tasks, Warrior Tasks and Battle Drills (WTBDs), High Physical Demand Tasks, and critical skills associated with their military occupational specialty (MOS) or officer basic branch.” That seems to be what SSG Radici was discussing. IET soldiers not being developed to a baseline proficiency of common core tasks. As it’s directly from 350-1, 350-1 is directly applicable.

Additionally, as he described, the new soldiers aren’t the problem. The cadre are the problem. And if the cadre are the problem, the Chain of Command and NCO support channel are the problem. Which is why I quoted ch 5-8. Not only are the students not being developed to be technically and tactically proficient by their instructors, but the instructors are not being developed to be technically and tactically proficient by their Chains of Command and NCO Support Channels. Again, that section is not limited to Non TRADOC units only.

You write, “but if the issue is AIT Soldiers, 350-6 is the starting point.” The issue SSG Radici brought up was not primarily with IET soldiers. He wrote, “..the instructor threatens them with counselings but they never happen.” That is an issue with the leadership of the NCO. However, If I’m to start in 350-6, where should I reference poor, lazy leadership because cadre doesn’t issue proper discipline?

SSG Radici seems to have brought up an issues of leadership, professionalism and Command, amongst other things. When you attempted to focus for him, rather than stating, “You’re complaining about 350-6, so you are complaining about TRADOC. While I agree with your gripes, that’s not the Army, 350-1“, I think more apt Army regulations to cite would have been 600-20 or 600-100 (not diving deeper, because that opens a spider web of other ARs, FMs, TCs).

Again, it didn’t sound like he was griping about the lazy soldiers. Soldiers are only lazy because weak, lazy leaders who aren’t proficient allow them to be. And to me, thats what it sounded what he was griping about.

Best of luck.
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SPC Mike Davis
SPC Mike Davis
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MAJ (Join to see) - Just a thought Maj. If I remember correctly. Saluating is a custom. courtesies not so much. An enlisted MUST salute an officer or go to jail and have his life ruined forever. An officer never has to salute a enlisted. The custom and DOD policy is: "SHOULD." Thus, if an officer does or does not return a salute there are no repercussions. An enlisted can do nothing about it. The other way around the enlisted goes to jail and has a ruined future life. The definition of the word Courtesies is a little hard to fit into such a policy. Just saying.....
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SFC(P) Drill Sergeant
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SFC (Join to see) - One thing Big Army got right was adjusting the Corrective Action guidelines from that weak sauce 5-10-15 pushup ordeal. While on the trail, we have fixed that archaic mode of correction for sure as the TR 350-6 Table 5, authorizes several exercises taken from FM 7-22 that deal with that lower trunk and leg muscles! The Mountain Climber, Forward Lunge, and my personal favorite THE SQUAT BENDER!!! 10-20-30!
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LTC Stephan Porter
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Frocking...if you’re in a position and promotable, then we should be able to have you wear the rank.
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LTC Stephan Porter
LTC Stephan Porter
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Sorry all...

Sensitive screen and sometimes it posts while I’m trying correct errors.
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SPC Mike Davis
SPC Mike Davis
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LTC Jason Mackay - Does such a situation have anything to do with labor/management union contracts?????? I know not funny, but could not resist. officers (management) have administrative (legal) responsibilities. Supervision does not. They had day to day quotas to meet (keeping it simple.) Thus, labor can be frocked. Management must be promoted (that damn legal thing again!)
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LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
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SPC Mike Davis promotable LTCs taking command of Brigades and promotable Majors taking command of a Battalion are frocked. Not sure what other connection there is.
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SPC Mike Davis
SPC Mike Davis
>1 y
LTC Jason Mackay - OK! Was not real sure if one was commissioned a Maj. then to take higher command commission LTC. If so seems like Frocking would than be a legal issue. I thought I was responding to LTC Porter comment. Which sounded like he was not happy with the frocking policy for more Sr. Commissioned. Wrong impression....Sorry!
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1SG First Sergeant
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Let me apologize up front, because this has the potential to be pretty long winded (depending on which rabbit holes I choose to run down along the way).

LTC Porter touches on it when he spoke of frocking. In my opinion, the senior enlisted promotion system needs an overhaul. I will say that it’s worked out in my favor every time I’ve (my packet anyway) went before a centralized promotion board, but for every example where the board got it right, I can easily point to two where it has failed in the ways pointed out in the next paragraph.

I would argue that the “big army” has failed to adequately promote deserving individuals into positions of increased responsibility, and in so doing has erroneously promoted a relatively high percentage of undeserving personnel into those same positions of trust.

What’s the issue you may ask. The lack of personal, first hand knowledge of performance, work ethic, and MOS knowledge by board members. The new NCOER strove to eliminate bloated evaluations, and has achieved a small measure of success in that endeavor, but much work remains to be done.

My recommendation would be for centralized boards to be moved from the purview of DA/HRC and delegated to senior enlisted leaders at the division level. This would allow for personnel within a Soldier’s rating chain to provide a real world assessment of those before the board that simply can’t be matched by bullet points or three line paragraphs covering potential contained within the NCOER.

Each Division would be allocated X number of promotions to a given grade within a MOS and select the best qualified for those positions. I understand the challenges in forecasting vacancies at each grade/MOS across the force at the DA level, but that would be greatly alleviated by relying on subordinate reporting units (Divisions/Brigades) to crunch the numbers and figure out what’s needed at their level. Potentially, this could lead to units where promotions stagnate based on the longevity of senior leaders currently in position, but PCS can help to solve that from year to year. This leads me on another tangent....

PCS moves and how they’re conducted by HRC, are another system that needs to be revamped. Find me a Fortune 500 company anywhere that is totally dependent on a single point of failure (eg. Branch Manager) to move personnel from location to location for no reason other than “broadening” the selected person’s portfolio or filling vacancies brought about by those same broadening moves of other personnel. Anywhere else in the world where organizations seek high performers and to be the best company/business/organization, an interview process takes place for lateral appointments or promotions, ensuring not only that the best personnel are selected for promotions, but also that those personnel will fit well within the existing framework of a business.

As it currently stands, if we’re being honest with ourselves, most moves of personnel (at least in the grades of E6-E8) are completely arbitrary and do little to achieve organizational goals at the gaining or losing unit. Allow leadership at the BN level to accept “applications” from interested individuals at the required (or -1) pay grade and select them as appropriate based on the needs and mission set of the organization. This will serve two purposes; personnel with strengths, ASIs, and SQIs identified as critical by a gaining units can be actively sought in order to facilitate increased lethality/efficiency in the conduct of wartime missions. Additionally, personnel whose skill set doesn’t provide much value added can be identified and selected for additional institutional training by home station units IOT build their organic units capability in conducting full spectrum, decisive action wartime missions.

Told you it could be long. Sorry.

TLDR; move promotions to the division level, and change PCS moves to an “interview” process ensuring that only personnel who are truly going to be an asset to units are selected for promotion or selected to work at a given unit.
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LTC Desk Officer
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Decentralization has two problems. First, the candidate’s current chain has a snapshot of 0-3 years of an NCO. They may not know THAT much more about an NCO than a centralized board would, and having a division board influenced by battalion or brigade level favoritism doesn’t sound good, either. Second problem is that hordes of senior NCOs work jobs in the institutional Army, where they serve alone and unafraid, one or two deep. This distributed system wouldn’t work at all.
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1SG First Sergeant
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First, could we not allow the proposed division level boards access to the same supporting documents as the centralized boards currently have access to? G1 pulls the candidates file for review by board members negating the issue of the 0-3 year snapshot while maintaining first hand knowledge of a NCOs real world performance.

As for the NCOs working for the institutional Army, if their packets were seen by members of the nearest division level board, they would be no worse off than they would be if seen by today’s centralized selection boards.
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