Posted on Apr 25, 2017
What process is stupidly complicated or slow because of "that's the way it's always been done" syndrome?
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Responses: 23
The first thing that comes to mind is the Military Driver's Licensing Process.
I'm licensed to drive an M1 Abrams main battle tank, 3 different variants of MRAPs, the LMTV platform, and a number of other vehicles. Despite this I apparently am still not qualified to drive the CUCV pickup. Really? It's a GM 1 ton pickup.
I'm licensed to drive an M1 Abrams main battle tank, 3 different variants of MRAPs, the LMTV platform, and a number of other vehicles. Despite this I apparently am still not qualified to drive the CUCV pickup. Really? It's a GM 1 ton pickup.
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SGT (Join to see)
As a master driver in my unit I'm completely agree with you Sir, not only that but the amount of paper and time reqiured to license one soldier on one model of vehicle. Its a complete headache. Especially since previous Master drivers didn't keep records and now I'm having to fix an entire company's paperwork and retrain them all
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MAJ (Join to see)
That seems to be the underlying cause SGT (Join to see) for a lot of the frustration with driver's licenses. I know guys who have taken initial drivers training two and three times over lost paperwork.
A TTP that has worked well for me is Iperm'ing the DA 348. Even when the clerks lose my paperwork I can pull it out of Iperms and I'm good.
A TTP that has worked well for me is Iperm'ing the DA 348. Even when the clerks lose my paperwork I can pull it out of Iperms and I'm good.
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SGT (Join to see)
When I was master driver I made sure that the lawn mower and weed eater fell off of my license
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Platoon (or company) led PT. It's a complete waste of time, no one gets anything out of it, and it's painful to watch.
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SFC (Join to see)
MSG (Anonymous) - having seen both sides, I saw more PT failures from company and platoon PT than squad and team run PT.
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SFC (Join to see)
MSG Tom Earley - I agree. PT is NCO business. When it's small unit PT, the Senior NCOs should be out doing PT with the squads.
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PFC Bradley Campbell
based on the millions of dollars the military wastes, their is ample room for improvement. on and off base weight room access for those who pass PT test and for those who dont, they get some structure and assistance from NCO and professional trainers.
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PFC (Join to see)
This is more a symptom of things like fitness credentials not being viewed as important to the same extent things like Ranger School, Jump Master, etc are.
Smaller elements are no more immune to shitty PT plans and awkward execution. I’ve had PT that was led by NCOs who knew how to run it and with NCOs who didn’t on dang near every level within the company.
If the Army taught NCOs genuinely good PR practices at the team or squad leader level, it would follow them up the chain.
If NCOs strived to learn from highly qualified joes within their element, they could better themselves for the future and help their joes grow.
Smaller elements are no more immune to shitty PT plans and awkward execution. I’ve had PT that was led by NCOs who knew how to run it and with NCOs who didn’t on dang near every level within the company.
If the Army taught NCOs genuinely good PR practices at the team or squad leader level, it would follow them up the chain.
If NCOs strived to learn from highly qualified joes within their element, they could better themselves for the future and help their joes grow.
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Battalion Commander wants a 0700 formation of the troops. Company Commander passes on it's 0600 formation. Platoon LT. says 0500 formation, Platoon Sgt says 0400 formation and the Squad leader gets your nasty ass up at 0300.
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Lt Col Jim Coe
Similar in the Air Force for the airdrop aircrews. Show time is 3 to 3.5 hours prior to takeoff time. If you have to fly to where the troops are, say 1.5 hours, then you've been at work for at least 4.5 hours when you start the joint inspection/briefing with the Army. The Army folks have been there at least 4 hours early. No wonder everybody in yawning. The joint inspection briefing is about an hour prior to the takeoff for the personnel drop. Onload troops about 30 minutes prior. The C-130s takeoff and fly at least 20 minutes and sometimes over an hour to the drop zone. When the troops depart the aircraft, we've all been up working this airdrop for about 6 hours. (Doesn't count planning and breifings the day before, week before, and month before.) The C-130 crews fly back and do another cycle of troops. The second load of troops has probably been up for over 8 hours when they see the green light. Aircrews then fly back to home base, debrief maintenance and debrief the mission. Not sure how all this effects the troops on the ground, but I know the aircrews were tired puppies when the day was over.
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I've been out for too long to know what processes or training fall into that category today. I will offer this though: Sometimes things continue to be done the way they always have been, because they have a long record of success. I would put a lot of the training in that category. Administrative processes may be different.
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The way the Army develops and institutes new training into the TRADOC POI's, takes about three years to institute a change on average. The only exception I've seen is in the IED defeat arena where the system is much more agile for some reason.
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SFC Craig Starr
Agree totally, I showed up at the school house fresh from combat. Pencil sharp and ready to "fix TRADOC" by the time I left, 2 years, 11 months, 8 days to Drum Enroute to Iraq I was so ecstatic I left doing burn outs out the gate, left my family at the training station for a year.
In my almost 3 years of TRADOC, I wrote a new course POIs, lesson plans, built class rooms and even solicited funding, training aid sponsors, requested university sponsorships anything I could do to get the training real, relevant and up to date with current aircraft (aviation school house) and aircraft maintenance practices. The whole time fighting obsolete mindsets, disconnected "this is how we did it in Viet-nam" mentality and this is how we do it in TRADOC.
Tactical Warrior training week was the only attempt to train AIT troops with current Basic warrior skill, individual tasks G2G small group collective tasks, forget it.
I designed and implemented a RPG simulator using a guide wire, Coke bottle and my son's model rocket kits. For convoy ambush and react to IED drills. It was a huge success.
The TRADOC CSM came to see the simulator and asked how much it cost and how did I come up with it. I told him, can do better, we owe it to new troops to introduce them into reality. For $25 it's worth it out of my pocket to give them something realistic to react to. A year later I saw the TRADOC training site with a contractor running similar devices like mine, but way fancier for Officer training at AP Hill.
Army Training is 40 years behind other services. They fear training to civil accreditation . Mil standards are all but obsolete, super weeds by civil standards in aerospace and industry. TRADOC needs a bottom up reset.
In my almost 3 years of TRADOC, I wrote a new course POIs, lesson plans, built class rooms and even solicited funding, training aid sponsors, requested university sponsorships anything I could do to get the training real, relevant and up to date with current aircraft (aviation school house) and aircraft maintenance practices. The whole time fighting obsolete mindsets, disconnected "this is how we did it in Viet-nam" mentality and this is how we do it in TRADOC.
Tactical Warrior training week was the only attempt to train AIT troops with current Basic warrior skill, individual tasks G2G small group collective tasks, forget it.
I designed and implemented a RPG simulator using a guide wire, Coke bottle and my son's model rocket kits. For convoy ambush and react to IED drills. It was a huge success.
The TRADOC CSM came to see the simulator and asked how much it cost and how did I come up with it. I told him, can do better, we owe it to new troops to introduce them into reality. For $25 it's worth it out of my pocket to give them something realistic to react to. A year later I saw the TRADOC training site with a contractor running similar devices like mine, but way fancier for Officer training at AP Hill.
Army Training is 40 years behind other services. They fear training to civil accreditation . Mil standards are all but obsolete, super weeds by civil standards in aerospace and industry. TRADOC needs a bottom up reset.
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The only thing harder than getting a new idea into the military is getting an old idea out of the the military.
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I would guess the army awards system is still terribly slow from the stories Ive read. I think it is terrible that it can take 2-3 years for someone to receive a high level combat award. While I appreciate that there is the need to make sure these awards meet standards, you will never convince me that those awards don't spend most of the time during those years just sitting in someones inbox.
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SGT Charles Napierala
I absolutely agree, but I don't think the awards system is that way because it's always been fine that way before. I think it's a slow process because units and leaders have this faux standard of what's required to be wrote in each reason for recommendation.
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Household goods shipment. I was fairly close to this business at the headquarters level. The process has been computerized with on-line ordering and tracking to some extent, but it still seemed excessively complex and time consuming. The process to allow movers to be able to bid on Government moves was also complex and time limited. When the availability of shippers was low due to peak demand, the process didn't have a good way to increase capacity (this may have been fixed by now). I'd like to hear some feedback to see if the process has improved in the last 5 years.
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Processes and systems are fine with me. What I cannot stand is the last minute things and lack of planning stuff that we do. SOF is one of the places where I have seen this happening the most. Most time leadership will say "Be flexible" as an excuse to cover up for their lack of planning. Sadly this is the Army that we have now a days.
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PT. I don't understand why it's such an issue to get people to show up for Physical training. It's what you signed up for. You agreed to do it when you put your hand up and joined. If you can't do the things you have agreed to do...then you have lost my trust and respect I had for you. I have to respect your rank..but I don't have to respect you.
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