Posted on Jan 30, 2017
What's been the hardest part about transitioning from the Military to Civilian employment?
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Employment
Transition
Interview
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 35
Difference in work ethic. Difference in mannerisms when dealing with supervisors. Keeping a stronger control on your tongue and thought process.
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Recognition of transitioning as a process that is slow and dependent on the field for which I seek to enter. The duration of the process differs across fields, industries, and public or private career paths. I envision transitioning as similar to a ruck march. The only way to finish is to put one foot in front of the other.
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Taylor Driesell
100% Anthony. That's a great outlook. I would also recommend to everyone transitioning to go to meet up/networking events in the area to make connections.
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Most issues I found during my second career were starting again proving your value. As with the military, those senior to you falsely believe they know more than the "newguy". You have to work your butt off to pass them up, while being promoted over them and becoming an impact player. As the old saying goes, "The harder I work, the luckier I get."
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Taylor Driesell
Love the saying, my grandfather, Lefty Driesell said that all throughout his coaching career!
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The big problem is that no one is looking for people that brake things. It is so hard to cross your military experience over to the civilian work force. This is countered to an extent by the desire to hire a veteran but I would recommend you decide the field you wish to work in. Hopefully that is a field that makes you happy. Then get a certification in that field prior to leaving the service. Rewrite all of your experience in the word used in that industry and from that certification. Hardest thing is to get an interview so your resume has to make it at least look like you have experience.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Taylor Driesell I guess I should have looked at your profile before I posted this answer. If you are looking to recruit prior military look past your requirements. When I was hired at HDR I had been unemployed for over six months. I decide this was the industry I wanted to work in and frankly I applied for a job I had no experience. At the end of the interview my boss who I see everyday now told me "you have never done this before" I thought they would never call me back but they had another need and gave me a chance. That was 10 years ago and now I am a VP in a 10,000 person worldwide A&E firm. The Cooper River bridge is one of our projects.
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Taylor Driesell
That's amazing LCDR! Thank you for that feedback. That's one of the biggest things I look for as a recruiter, transferrable skills and determination. I work with DOD/Government companies and I'm a big pusher of finding veteran talent because I know the skill sets are multi-functional.
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SFC Joseph A. Anderson
I truly believe that there isn't a job that prior military folks can't do with very little training or guidance in the civilian world. The experience we obtain in the military allows us to adapt and overcome all obstacles and situations no matter what they are. I have never looked at a job announcement and said I couldn't do that except those in the professional medical field. Regardless of the job in the military. Just my opinion.
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Self-important employers with no perspective, who think mundane tasks are tantamount to life & death decisions.
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Taylor Driesell
I'm confused.. do you mean Civilian employers?
Try to sympathize with them. They don't come from the military background so what may seem mundane to you can seem like "life & death" to their company's success or even their job.
Try to sympathize with them. They don't come from the military background so what may seem mundane to you can seem like "life & death" to their company's success or even their job.
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SGT Dave Tracy
Taylor Driesell - Sure I can flesh out my thoughts for you.
You asked about the transition from military to civilian employment, so I limited my statement to focus on the tendencies of a particularly charming slice of civilian employers and perhaps some particularly self-stressed employees too.
Really only life & death situations ARE life & death situations, yet some folks take things to that extreme; but to what end? Not me. I can triage what’s important better than that, whether I’m fulfilling the roll of boss or subordinate, and I’ve known both.
Sight, life or limb may be at risk in the military and first responder worlds; not so much if the office copy machine runs out of paper. It's hard to take seriously the competence of a co-worker or boss who publically goes into core meltdown over the absence of fresh coffee at the morning meeting. And no reasonable person would conclude that missing the memo about new coversheets for TPS reports (Office Space reference y'all!) rises to anywhere near "mission critical", life & death importance and should not be treated as such; then again, it is such unreasonable people of which I speak. Sure in the aggregate even the trivial, mundane things add up and become a detriment to the system, but that’s beyond what I’m really addressing.
Understand however, this is not to say that being a slothful failure at work is acceptable. It's not. And if one is a slothful failure at work, that generally corrects itself in short order.
“Understanding” is fine, but such wildly misplaced perspectives put on anyone, employees/venders/other potential stakeholders, by bosses or by themselves (Type As, I'm talking about you here.) becomes toxic, and in the long run don't serve people or an organization very well. That’s when a little perspective should be in order. I’m not saying a military or first responder background is required for a more even-keeled perspective on work, but it couldn’t hurt.
You asked about the transition from military to civilian employment, so I limited my statement to focus on the tendencies of a particularly charming slice of civilian employers and perhaps some particularly self-stressed employees too.
Really only life & death situations ARE life & death situations, yet some folks take things to that extreme; but to what end? Not me. I can triage what’s important better than that, whether I’m fulfilling the roll of boss or subordinate, and I’ve known both.
Sight, life or limb may be at risk in the military and first responder worlds; not so much if the office copy machine runs out of paper. It's hard to take seriously the competence of a co-worker or boss who publically goes into core meltdown over the absence of fresh coffee at the morning meeting. And no reasonable person would conclude that missing the memo about new coversheets for TPS reports (Office Space reference y'all!) rises to anywhere near "mission critical", life & death importance and should not be treated as such; then again, it is such unreasonable people of which I speak. Sure in the aggregate even the trivial, mundane things add up and become a detriment to the system, but that’s beyond what I’m really addressing.
Understand however, this is not to say that being a slothful failure at work is acceptable. It's not. And if one is a slothful failure at work, that generally corrects itself in short order.
“Understanding” is fine, but such wildly misplaced perspectives put on anyone, employees/venders/other potential stakeholders, by bosses or by themselves (Type As, I'm talking about you here.) becomes toxic, and in the long run don't serve people or an organization very well. That’s when a little perspective should be in order. I’m not saying a military or first responder background is required for a more even-keeled perspective on work, but it couldn’t hurt.
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Employers want to hire field grade officers with 20 plus years of experience and pay them as if they were specialists with 5 years of experience.
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MAJ Andrew Ready
Taylor Driesell - I'm in El Paso Texas looking for intel or management positions. I've applied at defense as well as civilian companies. They all have high requirements yet pay in the 50-60k range.
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I would have liked to have transitioned. Due to the end of the Cold War, I was just thrown out along with everyone else they could get rid of. It was a numbers game to see how fast they could reduce manning. I would have loved someone to have sat me down and gone over what I had done/learned and how it would equate to a civilian "job." As a result, I was thrown in to the deep end and had to sink or swim on my own. So - here's what I found...
1. You are entering a different quota system. Your local big city corporation gets kick backs and other "stuff" from the local big city colleges. So its a circle of life, and you're the wart hog dancing slowly. You have to compete with that college. So make sure you have a certifications or college degree when applying to that company. Stay away from people claiming to "convert your military experience to college credits." It rarely works. If ever.
2. Company's that build the stuff you shot, played with, flew, drove, etc, are your best/main bet for vet hiring. Oh...not cuz they love you... They want you because they get a government kick-back for hiring you. So while you're driving your tank in jagaram or flying your plane over the joo joo gulf, look at the brand names around you. "Harris radio," "Colt gun," etc. So seek out those companies when you get out. By the same token, don't use Gerber knives in the Army, get hired by Gerber and think you're going to be telling them how to build/use their knives... You'll probably be in another department. Probably won't even see a knife...
3. Admit you're a virgin. You're former military. Joe college kid has more street smarts than you. Go to your local job center and sign on with the VETERAN COORDINATOR. They do nothing all day but but look for jobs for people like you. They'll help you dress, write your resume, etc. Plus, he/she was in so they were probably in your unit and you guys can swap stories over a beer or two.
4. Most military (especially Navy) will have SECRET clearances. It takes an act of God to get one now in the civilian world. CAPITALIZE ON THAT. No, you may not want to be a health care administrator at a hospital or medical insurance company, but having a SECRET clearance they will hire you NOW and the salary will be A LOT BETTER than what you plan on getting as a civilian equivalent of what you were doing active duty.
5. Remember that CIVLANT (civilian fleet) is run by civilians. They don't have bosses/commanding officers. They have share holders. If they can outsource you to save 1/17th of a cent (yup - had that done...by 'poor' disney no less...) in order to look good to share holders, they will. So while uncle Jay can get you a job at xx where he works, do your Charles Schwab research and find out how "good" /solvent/stable that company is. I got outsourced from Disney of all people...
6. Ignore your family. You may have to work a night shift job. Or a weekend job. Deal with it. It may be all you can get. In addition with number (5) above, most of your jobs are going to come from networking. "Not what you know but who you know..." By getting your feet in the door, you can move on to other careers.
7. Keep your uniform at home. You're not in the military anymore. Don't critisize your coworkers for baggy pants, no socks, t-shirts un-tucked in, etc. Yes...I see that. Constantly. It gets old after a while. Yes. We know you have standards, etc. But really...no one cares. Trust me, they all know you're a vet. On vets day your company CEO will send out a pat letter "thanking our veterans, yada yada." Why...you may even get a free pair of tickets to a hockey game. "But I don't like hockey..." Take them. Shake their hand. Pray for their death...
8. Rethink your college. Go back to number (5). All about money babe. They want people cheap. Research a company you want. Look for a career there. Then use your GI Bill benefits to get you certifications in that area. Don't get the whole degree. Just the certs. I'm in I.T. - a degree is worthless. The protocols and tech change daily. But network certifications will make you look delicious without scaring them. Same with computer security certs. So use your GI Bill to enhance what you already have. To make you look desirable but not expensive. You have "experience" that kids won't have, but kids have the college. So having some college puts you ahead of them without making me the HR guy, think that you're going to want millions for salary.
9. Retirees only. Your pay may not be a lot but remember that civilians pay for their medical care at a much higher rate than you do. So mention that to the employer during your interview. I tell them I'm retired and usually get a few dollars per hour more.
1. You are entering a different quota system. Your local big city corporation gets kick backs and other "stuff" from the local big city colleges. So its a circle of life, and you're the wart hog dancing slowly. You have to compete with that college. So make sure you have a certifications or college degree when applying to that company. Stay away from people claiming to "convert your military experience to college credits." It rarely works. If ever.
2. Company's that build the stuff you shot, played with, flew, drove, etc, are your best/main bet for vet hiring. Oh...not cuz they love you... They want you because they get a government kick-back for hiring you. So while you're driving your tank in jagaram or flying your plane over the joo joo gulf, look at the brand names around you. "Harris radio," "Colt gun," etc. So seek out those companies when you get out. By the same token, don't use Gerber knives in the Army, get hired by Gerber and think you're going to be telling them how to build/use their knives... You'll probably be in another department. Probably won't even see a knife...
3. Admit you're a virgin. You're former military. Joe college kid has more street smarts than you. Go to your local job center and sign on with the VETERAN COORDINATOR. They do nothing all day but but look for jobs for people like you. They'll help you dress, write your resume, etc. Plus, he/she was in so they were probably in your unit and you guys can swap stories over a beer or two.
4. Most military (especially Navy) will have SECRET clearances. It takes an act of God to get one now in the civilian world. CAPITALIZE ON THAT. No, you may not want to be a health care administrator at a hospital or medical insurance company, but having a SECRET clearance they will hire you NOW and the salary will be A LOT BETTER than what you plan on getting as a civilian equivalent of what you were doing active duty.
5. Remember that CIVLANT (civilian fleet) is run by civilians. They don't have bosses/commanding officers. They have share holders. If they can outsource you to save 1/17th of a cent (yup - had that done...by 'poor' disney no less...) in order to look good to share holders, they will. So while uncle Jay can get you a job at xx where he works, do your Charles Schwab research and find out how "good" /solvent/stable that company is. I got outsourced from Disney of all people...
6. Ignore your family. You may have to work a night shift job. Or a weekend job. Deal with it. It may be all you can get. In addition with number (5) above, most of your jobs are going to come from networking. "Not what you know but who you know..." By getting your feet in the door, you can move on to other careers.
7. Keep your uniform at home. You're not in the military anymore. Don't critisize your coworkers for baggy pants, no socks, t-shirts un-tucked in, etc. Yes...I see that. Constantly. It gets old after a while. Yes. We know you have standards, etc. But really...no one cares. Trust me, they all know you're a vet. On vets day your company CEO will send out a pat letter "thanking our veterans, yada yada." Why...you may even get a free pair of tickets to a hockey game. "But I don't like hockey..." Take them. Shake their hand. Pray for their death...
8. Rethink your college. Go back to number (5). All about money babe. They want people cheap. Research a company you want. Look for a career there. Then use your GI Bill benefits to get you certifications in that area. Don't get the whole degree. Just the certs. I'm in I.T. - a degree is worthless. The protocols and tech change daily. But network certifications will make you look delicious without scaring them. Same with computer security certs. So use your GI Bill to enhance what you already have. To make you look desirable but not expensive. You have "experience" that kids won't have, but kids have the college. So having some college puts you ahead of them without making me the HR guy, think that you're going to want millions for salary.
9. Retirees only. Your pay may not be a lot but remember that civilians pay for their medical care at a much higher rate than you do. So mention that to the employer during your interview. I tell them I'm retired and usually get a few dollars per hour more.
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My biggest issue has been the lack of a common goal or as I call it, competing agendas. After 20+ years of heading in the same direction and working to achieve the same goals, working in an environment where everyone is doing their own things, undermining the higher ups in some cases and a blatant "me first" mentality, yeah I get pretty disgusted about it.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
To be fair tho, most American companies foster that. I've been a civilian since 1993 and have been laid off/outsourced eight times! Thats roughly three years at each job! So its hard to have any loyalty or respect for share-holder driven success, right?
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