Posted on Dec 14, 2018
SPC Practical/Vocational Nursing
166K
1.64K
618
202
202
0
I was walking with a Navy LT and an Army Maj. (My hospital has both services) from the USO across the street to the hospital and a PFC passed and didn’t salute. I stopped and asked her, “Do enlisted soldiers not salute officers anymore?” The Maj. with me said I didn’t have to be so aggressive about it. What’s a better way of addressing it without coming off as aggressive?
Avatar feed
Responses: 389
SGM Bill Frazer
252
252
0
You were in the right and the Major was wrong, That is part of our problem- Don't make waves, don't hurt someone's feelings.
(252)
Comment
(0)
Monty Leverett
Monty Leverett
4 y
I'm with the SGM here, unless the enlisted person had an armload of stuff and literally couldn't, then they should salute, and if they do, acknowledge with a formal greeting.
(3)
Reply
(0)
SFC James (Jim) R Brown
SFC James (Jim) R Brown
4 y
CPT Johnny Simmons o - Sir, you are correct. Had this same thing happen one day at Ft. McClellan AL. The Major was leaving the PX, I was approaching the PX (meeting the Major). The E4 was coming from my right with no headgear on and failed to salute. I saluted the Major and he said, "Snake eater see if you can straighten that young soldier out". I stopped the E4, brought hun to attention, questioned him about his gear. He said he had it in his pocket. I suggested he put the headgear on his head and then do a left face and salute the Major. The E4 hesitated and I reminded him of how hot he would get doing pushups. He did as recommended, the Major returned the salute. We all went on our way. The E4, I am sure would remember that failure to be in proper uniform and failure to perform the proper military courtesy.
(3)
Reply
(0)
SSG Stacy Carter
SSG Stacy Carter
3 y
MAJ (Join to see) - yeah when you dont say anything you just set a new standard. The major who admonished the SPC was wrong and frankly so are you!
(2)
Reply
(0)
PFC Edward Krinsky
PFC Edward Krinsky
>1 y
SSG Carter…Sorry, you are wrong. Rank must be respected. You don’t belong in the service….
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CPT Board Member
209
209
0
I would say "hey PFC, can I talk to you?" Then step to the side and remind the PFC that proper customs and courtesies require the greeting of the day and a hand salute.

Maybe the soldier was having an off day or had something on her mind. Always try to assume the best, but don't ever be ashamed of holding your peers and subordinates to the standard.
(209)
Comment
(0)
SPC Curtis Kennedy
SPC Curtis Kennedy
>1 y
Agreed...plus you also don't come off as an a$$hole to that PFC which in turn give a better opinion of officers
(1)
Reply
(0)
CPO John Moran
CPO John Moran
>1 y
You need to get the PFC’s attention or he/she will continue to act irresponsibly
(2)
Reply
(0)
CPT Wayne Price
CPT Wayne Price
4 y
A soldier with an off day in combat may get some people killed. CPT Wayne Price
(2)
Reply
(0)
PO2 Gary Wood
PO2 Gary Wood
3 y
Good day, bad day... Proper respect and courtesy doesn't take a day off... Trying to make it a "kinder & more compassionate" military will lead to the breakdown of the ranks.

I get the idea of not going overboard when a small infraction happens, but the opposite is even more dangerous...

What's next, practicall jokes to a Captain by an E-2? Busting of a Master Chief by a Third Class Petty officer? What's the end game, a PFC saying "Wassup" to a four-star??

We have made major strides in integration of the services with women and minorities. Now rather than breaking down the discipline between higher and lower ranking service members, try building up the respect for these women and minorities.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
2LT Army Reserve Unit Administrator
142
142
0
You could explain to the MAJ that you were doing the PFC a favour. Just because he/she didn't care, it doesn't mean the PFC won't come across an officer who does and won't hesitate to dress her down!
(142)
Comment
(0)
SPC Matthew Birkinbine
SPC Matthew Birkinbine
>1 y
Agreed. I saw a full-bird leaving the hospital at Fort Sill once. The area near the doors were clearly marked, “No Salute Zone”, but he had left that area. A lone PFC was walking toward that area, and through some lapse in judgement or poor eyesight, he didn’t render a salute. The Colonel went off like a Drill Sergeant on that poor kid.
(1)
Reply
(0)
CAPT Randall Martin
CAPT Randall Martin
4 y
Maybe it's my enlisted background, but as an officer whenever I fail to get a salute I salute first - this never fails to make the correction in the most mutually respectful and expeditious manner.
(2)
Reply
(0)
TSgt Infantryman
TSgt (Join to see)
4 y
SPC Christopher Murano - You forgot Please
(1)
Reply
(0)
TSgt Infantryman
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Avatar feed
What’s the proper way to correct someone when not saluting an officer?
SGM G3 Sergeant Major
66
66
0
When I am walking with an officer that does not get saluted, regardless of how the officer feels about salutes, I tell him I'll catch up in a sec, then turn around and address the issue with the Soldier quickly, quietly, professionally and out of earshot of the officer.
Praise in public, and more importantly, correct or admonish in private, regardless of rank.

The rest is just my personal philosophy, your mileage may vary;
Is saluting all that important on the spectrum of what we do day in and day out? Probably not. But it is probably the easiest one. And I don't really care what kind of day they are having, because if I can't trust a Soldier to do one of the easiest things on the list just because they might be preoccupied with something, how can I trust him to get anything at all done when we really need it and nothing is going right, you know the kind of situations that the military exists for...
(66)
Comment
(0)
CPL Joseph Elinger
CPL Joseph Elinger
>1 y
A salute is a greeting of courtesy.
It is best form for The Superior to be subtle.
It is also best form for The Subordinate to remember their proper station.
In The US, the Salute is a frequent formality, NEVER exercised "in the field."
In some countries, Chain of Command is clear, Rank generally means Leadership ie project or mission. Everyone is a Soldier, & subject to the same regs.
The Israel Defence Forces very much has that tradition.
An E-1 can bring up a Commanding General on charges, if the situation is valid.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CPL Joseph Elinger
CPL Joseph Elinger
>1 y
SGT Daniel Myers & I'm sure they probably knew & understood.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CPT Wayne Price
CPT Wayne Price
4 y
When we let small military issues go without correction, the next issue will likely be biger until military discipline gets to be nonexistent. CPT Wayne Price
(1)
Reply
(0)
TSgt Infantryman
TSgt (Join to see)
4 y
SGT Daniel Myers - Respect goes both ways. Sorry for your loss
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SGM Billy Herrington
58
58
0
If they though you were aggressive I’d hate to see what they would think of my approach.
(58)
Comment
(0)
SGT Mechanic
SGT (Join to see)
5 y
Oh yeah they would have HATED my response to that.... knife hands, loud scary voices. Possible demons.
(1)
Reply
(0)
PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
>1 y
I don't think its so much of a "what was said" as it was so much "why it was said." The officer felt that as the one deserving of the salute, he should have been the one to say. What you're doing is thinking for the officer for them. And that comes with penalties.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CPL Joseph Elinger
CPL Joseph Elinger
>1 y
LOL!
Thumbs up.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CPL Joseph Elinger
CPL Joseph Elinger
>1 y
SGT James LeFebvre To me, it depends on my evaluation & intuition of the underlying cause of said infraction.
The Italians say: Soto voce.
Say it softly.
One usually listens more intently.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
LTC Jason Mackay
49
49
0
Edited >1 y ago
SPC (Join to see) was the Major a direct commission? Sometimes they are either overly dismissive of military culture or all of a sudden insistent on it. From what you wrote, at face value, you did the right thing, on two levels. One you spotted an infraction and took some action. Two, the junior in the group is usually the best to make the on the spot correction.

I once saw (from across the street) the CG of NTC walking with the Commander of 11th ACR (Blackhorse 6 is an O6) and the Hospital Commander (an O6). Two PFCs from NTC Support Battalion walked right by all three. Blackhorse 6 had to jump in their shit. And you could hear it throughout the grid square.

Your delivery may have been perceived as bad. Perhaps pulling the guy to the side would be the absolute best COA, but no need to make the day of a peer to peer on the spot correction. I would have asked the Major what he would have preferred. Every time you walk by something ate up, you just set the new standard. Has nothing to do with that officer's vanity or degree of comfort with on-the-spot correction. That soldier should be glad it was you and not their CSM.
(49)
Comment
(0)
CPL Joseph Elinger
CPL Joseph Elinger
>1 y
It's a cultural thing. In our culture the outdoors Subordinate to Superior salute is De jure. As a member of said Society, we are bound by it's cultural norms / laws / rules; to both follow & reinforce them.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CPL Joseph Elinger
CPL Joseph Elinger
>1 y
SPC (Join to see) Same thing @ Synagogue.
I hear Christians are more standoffish & caste conscious in their usual houses of worship?
(0)
Reply
(0)
1LT Susan Bailey
1LT Susan Bailey
3 y
As a Direct Commission Officer myself, I do take small issue with that part of your comment. I would regard the behavior you describe as a failure of training and /or leadership to ensure that the DC officer understood and practiced basic military courtesy such as this properly like any other Officer. I never gave myself a pass for not knowing the proper way and encouraged my batttle buddy an ROTC grad to correct me if I did not do something right. I don’t think DC’s should be held to different standards. Nor do I think they should hold different standards.
(0)
Reply
(0)
LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
3 y
1LT Susan Bailey 22 years of this, I saw improperly trained and DCs with the absolute wrong concept of how this all works. I’ve also seen raging ass****s drunk with the power of a commission. If you start reminding people you are a <insert rank here>, you’re doing it wrong.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Retention Operations Nco
21
21
0
You were exactly correct. You spoke in exactly the same manner any NCO here would. If it was my children who did something similar I would have said the same exact thing. What you were doing was NCO business and you were doing it well.
(21)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
LTC Psychological Operations Officer
20
20
0
Edited >1 y ago
I'd say your wording was needlessly sarcastic rather than aggressive. Obviously you know that enlisted still salute officers, so why ask the snarky question. All that does is create an immediate "what an asshole" perception in the person you are correcting. And IMO there is no need for that. It's great that you made an on the spot correction, but do it in a professional manner. Just stop the soldier and point out her error and tell her it's important to be aware of her surroundings and act professionally at all times. But saying things like you did, or an old standby ( yelling "hey troop, you got a broken arm?!") doesn't really project a professional approach either.

Thinking back about medical officers and saluting made me laugh. I had a next door neighbor at Ft Knox when I was there as a CPT for school, who was an eye doctor newly commissioned as a CPT. One day we were walking together in uniform and a soldier walked by without saluting. I immediately made an on the spot correction. When done, he said to me "I know I'm supposed to do that, but I never can get up the nerve to do it".
(20)
Comment
(0)
CPT Special Forces Officer
CPT (Join to see)
>1 y
Regrettably, I was correcting soldiers for not saluting in the 80s. I am reasonably certain is is even more common now.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SGT Christopher Hayden
SGT Christopher Hayden
>1 y
The "I'm going to be a sarcastic prick while I correct you " is a pretty common archetype you see all over the military. One guy probably started doing it while waiting to shoot some Red Coats a few hundred years ago and it's stuck.
(5)
Reply
(0)
SPC James Jackson
SPC James Jackson
5 y
All due respect Sir but one of the very reasons we are even having this conversation is because of the very attitudes of a growing population in the military and of your neighbor that was a Captain. I've heard and been thaught "praise in public, punish in private" but there are times when it takes that public acknowledgement to get the point across and driven home. Sometimes you have to do a quick evaluation of the circumstances, did this soldier do this before, is this the environment around them and they just did realized they were ate up or are others around them doing so and they are being lazy and not rendering a crisp proper salute as required. Officers such as yourself earn the receipt of the curtsey no matter what someone else grumbles and it's an honor that shouldn't be taken for granted of being able to perform.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Gunnar Larsson
Gunnar Larsson
>1 y
No
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
19
19
0
Praise in public, punish in private.
"Pardon me gentlemen, I need to take care of something real quick" excuse yourself
"Hey PFC, got a second?" pull him aside and make the correction out of earshot of the officers.
Aggressive is Subjective, however if the correction is done in private then that subjectivity is removed or even better it contextually isolated back down to enlisted who will appreciate the specific approach. Don't get me wrong, you might still be aggressive, but it will be out of sight allowing you to make the necessary investigation and adjustment.
After you are done, catch up "By your leave" render honors, and if asked "spotted a lapse in discipline that needed immediate fixing."
(19)
Comment
(0)
1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
>1 y
The only nit I can pick in your approach is that I'd leave it at "spotted a lapse that needed fixing", Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS.
(2)
Reply
(0)
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
>1 y
1LT William Clardy - Well spotted. Concur 100%
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CSM Richard StCyr
13
13
0
Good job, as long as you weren't screaming and making an ass of yourself. There's nothing wrong with being firm and assertive.
As much indiscipline as I'm seeing around and no NCO's making on the spot corrections, as a retiree I'd have probably phoned in a positive spot report to your 1SG for observing a SPC taking decisive action.
Thank you for making an effort to do the rite thing.
(13)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close