Posted on Dec 14, 2018
What’s the proper way to correct someone when not saluting an officer?
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I was walking with a Navy LT and an Army Maj. (My hospital has both services) from the USO across the street to the hospital and a PFC passed and didn’t salute. I stopped and asked her, “Do enlisted soldiers not salute officers anymore?” The Maj. with me said I didn’t have to be so aggressive about it. What’s a better way of addressing it without coming off as aggressive?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 388
Even 20 years ago there were grey areas about when and where to salute. For example, flight lines had different rules/expectations. I found it more confusing than anything and preferred to salute all the time. That rank deserves respect...
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I find this funny, even though you are correct. I just remember once coming around the corner of a building and a Lt. Jg (O-2) came running the other way around the corner and we almost knocked each other down. After making sure he was okay, I turned to walk off and he says "Don't enlisted salute officers anymore?" At first I thought he was joking. But the ring thumper (academy grad) was dead serious. So I pulled off a super smart salute. As he left I gave him the salute he deserved. 1 finger. There are times when salutes may not be called for but in general you had it right.
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I retired as a LCDR. For me I would look at circumstances: Is it 2AM on the pier, raining, and we are 30 feet separated? Or, is it at a training command, just us, and a sailor walks right by me. I always gave the person the benefit of the doubt that he/she forgot, etc because I've done the same thing, and that usually was all it took. If there's a sailor with a chip on his/her shoulder for some reason, getting shit on by an officer for not saluting isn't going to improve that sailor's morale and performance.
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My first day, reporting to my joint-service headquarters as an Army 2LT. Saw an older Navy guy approaching, scanned his uniform to figure out his rank, saw something resembling an oak leaf, so I saluted and said Good Morning, Sir. The Chief Petty Officer politely (maybe with a small smirk/grin explained my mistake and said that he should be saluting me) and I continued on my way. That afternoon I saw another Navy fellow with what appeared to be similar brass insignia, so I patiently waited for the salute and greeting. It didn't happen, and then the Commander (my intermediate rater, as it turned out) explained to me that he was equivalent to an Army LTC. Rough first day on the job!
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The proper way to correct someone when not saluting an officer? We were all trained to recognize rank and insignia's from any branch of service. However, if an error is made, correct them in private and tell them if in doubt salute first, or apologize (if you mistakenly salute an enlisted person).
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I've mentioned this before. In '72-'73 I was a student at Ft. Sill for the Advance Course. I was one of
four lieutenants, three of us US and the other Thai, IIRC. One of the required daily things was to check your mailbox. This was somewhere close to half way through the course, so we knew each other fairly well. Anyway, I was walking along back to Snow Hall and we were talking/joking/wondering about the next class when suddenly I heard a "Lieutenant - where is your salute?" I looked up to see a captain from a class several classes behind us. So I popped him one. What did my section mates do? 'WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT GUY?"
four lieutenants, three of us US and the other Thai, IIRC. One of the required daily things was to check your mailbox. This was somewhere close to half way through the course, so we knew each other fairly well. Anyway, I was walking along back to Snow Hall and we were talking/joking/wondering about the next class when suddenly I heard a "Lieutenant - where is your salute?" I looked up to see a captain from a class several classes behind us. So I popped him one. What did my section mates do? 'WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT GUY?"
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A big part of the is Most military Hosptil have a no saluting policy.
How ever the greeting of the is still mandatory.
How ever the greeting of the is still mandatory.
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Too bad, you correct that enlisted right then and there! Screw feelings! This is the Military, not a Fucking college campus! You want "feelings?" Go there! You want warriors? That's what the military's for!
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As has been commented, How you correct someone is most often more effective. I am a civilian now and have had many opportunities to correct people in how they conduct themselves. I have noted that how I correct them makes a huge difference. For something such as saluting an Officer being agressive is not necesary, a simple reminder that in acordance to military customs an enlisted person is required to salute. It is a sign of respect not necessarily of the person but of the rank. As a civilian a handshake and or greeting is just as important. Look the person in the eyes and show them the same respect as you would want to recieve were you in their position.
The PFC should have been paying attention to what was going on around them and rendered a salute as per regulation. As junior enlisted to yourself, however you corrected them should not have been any business of the Officer. Attention to their surroundings as a military member is and should be a high prioirity so when they find themselves in a combat situation they already have that lesson learned. It could keep them alive.
The PFC should have been paying attention to what was going on around them and rendered a salute as per regulation. As junior enlisted to yourself, however you corrected them should not have been any business of the Officer. Attention to their surroundings as a military member is and should be a high prioirity so when they find themselves in a combat situation they already have that lesson learned. It could keep them alive.
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If the US ARMY wanted you to have feelings, they would have issued them, correct the problem, loud and proud, so they will remember it and it will not happen again
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How I would have handled it.
To Major: excuse me Sir, I'll be back in a minute.
:Walk to PFC:
To PFC: Hey PFC [name]. This isn't me jumping down your throat but this is what I noticed. (Proceed to explain)
In most situations I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
To Major: excuse me Sir, I'll be back in a minute.
:Walk to PFC:
To PFC: Hey PFC [name]. This isn't me jumping down your throat but this is what I noticed. (Proceed to explain)
In most situations I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
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Leadership begins with leading. If the PFC failed to salute a leader will correct the situation, calmly, with clear purpose and without animus. If the PFC felt emotionally stressed by a reminder of standards the PFC in question will benefit from an improvement in maturity through experiencing stress and surviving it. As I recall from my days in the Navy the usual standard in such situations is that the Junior Officer or NCO present performs the admonition which permits the Senior Officer to ignore the slight. As to the "aggression" - please - we are in the military - aggression is the very center piece of our profession, our soldiers should be able to handle the stress of a mild rebuke when they screw up.
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An on the spot correction is necessary and I always used the tone of voice that let the guilty party know if best never happen again in my sight.
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This is a very hard question to answer. Trying to correct the PFC's misconduct in front of others and in public. Should the be called out in front of the officers or taken aside and and corrected. In all my years of supervising others I can't think of a time I corrected an officer or staff member in front of others unless it was in dangerous or life threatening situation. I was a supervisor in in a prison for over 20 years which had military type ranks.
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Would also remind the LT and Maj(respectfully, of course!) that saluting isn't about courtesy, it's about respect and not getting a salute is disrespectful. If you don't respect yourself, neither will anyone else. I notice most medical types tend to be less stringent on those kind of things.
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There was nothing wrong with asking that question to the PFC. The PFC could have gotten destroyed by a Sr NCO. Now with the Major you need to know which battles to fight. Officers will speak their mind and you have to listen, however you were not in the wrong for attempting to correct the PFC. So keep upholding the standard and pass that on to the soldiers in your section.
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I can see that it is a much kinder, gentler Army then when I was a young officer in the early 1980s. This situation has happened to me many times. I always tried to be professional, yet direct and most of the time the soldier took corrective action Without incident. On occasion it was necessary to jump their ass and in one instance I even took three young soldiers to their first sergeant who was a friend of mine and let him “re-educate.”
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You were correct. The Major should have acted, sometime I would say " good morning private" or something to that effect to snap the soldier out of their "trance" and move my right arm to start the salute. This worked well most of the time as failure to salute is usually not deliberate. Some of the duty uniforms now do not emphasize rank insignia and creates a problem.
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