Posted on Dec 14, 2018
What’s the proper way to correct someone when not saluting an officer?
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I was walking with a Navy LT and an Army Maj. (My hospital has both services) from the USO across the street to the hospital and a PFC passed and didn’t salute. I stopped and asked her, “Do enlisted soldiers not salute officers anymore?” The Maj. with me said I didn’t have to be so aggressive about it. What’s a better way of addressing it without coming off as aggressive?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 388
Stepping aside and giving a stern reminder would be appropriate. I notice some officers (especially dr.'s and chaplains) aren't as concerned with missing a salute but saluting is not only a matter of respect but of dicipline and situational awareness.
A habit of maintaining situational awareness (and following procedure) can save or cost lives...so you can remind them of that next time you see someone skipping a salute.
A habit of maintaining situational awareness (and following procedure) can save or cost lives...so you can remind them of that next time you see someone skipping a salute.
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You could have easily left the sarcasm and condisending remark out of it. I am a firm believer that all military customs and courtesies must be followed and respected. However, your approach sounds to me like you were trying to impress the two officers you were with more so then to correct an obvious discrepancy. Showboating is an awful trait, especially for an aspiring NCO. Just my opinion of course!
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You were right about it, when I was on active duty I was visiting my sister who was in the navy at the time, I was a E6 Army NCO pasted a LT(jg) any he barked at me about not saluting ( didn’t see those litty bitty butter bars) but later passed a CPO and saluted him( hey I saw shinny shit) and he corrected me, (SQUIRREL) but you should correct someone because they might not have seen or didn’t know protcall and don’t let the officers tel you don’t worry about it,stand your ground, I was a 3stars aid driver and Bodyguard and he respected me for knowing customs and courtesy while in and out of uniform, don’t get lacks in your training and discipline in uniform we....umm y’all have to take up the slack of us old retired NCO’s and teach theses young officers the proper ways.....again (SQUIRREL) got off in a tangent....in other words, you were right to correct them
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What is wrong with what the Navy Lt. said. In the good old days you would have gotten a good @ss chewing, the 1SG would have been called, and the PFC would have been dealt with by the chain of command.... depending on what the circumstances were. Not enough details here.
A friend of mine had a bad habit of always looking down, didn't salute the CG because he didn't see the CG's jeep. He got a free ride to the Division HQ ... and another free ride back from the 1SG.
A friend of mine had a bad habit of always looking down, didn't salute the CG because he didn't see the CG's jeep. He got a free ride to the Division HQ ... and another free ride back from the 1SG.
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1LT (Join to see)
I can relate... I served as both enlisted, an officer and returned to enlisted. I am glad you did. I was in a situation during a school where one of my guys showed disrespect to a cadre sergeant... I lit him up.... and it was well deserved...in the open bay. After that, both my platoon and my roomate's platoon got there act together. John and I both had over 10 years in, but in general very laid back, but failure to salute has no excuse unless there are some very extenuating circumstances.
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My line was always: "Excuse me, a little military courtesy is appreciated." This always resulted in a salute. I didn't have to explicitly say "salute" - people know what is expected. All you're doing is holding them to a standard.
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Does the Army no longer have the Army Officer's Guide (original published in 1930, the copy I have is 45th edition, dated 1990) and the NCO Guide (original published in 1954, the copy I have is 4th edition, dated 1992)? Customs and courtesies remain virtually unchanged. How to salute is described in FM 3-21.5, Drill and Ceremonies, and whom to salute is defined in AR 600-25, Salutes, Honors, and Visits of Courtesy. You were indeed correct in making an on-the-spot correction IAW AR 600-20, Army Command Policy. I say to you: well done.
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I believe that your direct handling by calling out the individual was correct in every way, and it displays both knowledge and courage. When I was a young lieutenant I had a squad leader who was a large and powerful individual, SSG P. I watched him handle this exact thing once. He wrapped his left arm around the offending soldiers shoulders, and walked down the sidewalk speaking gently into his ear. The I noticed the young soldiers feet were barley touching the ground, and I thought - now that is a handling for the problem.
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I have seen it vise versa when an enlisted salutes an officer but officer didn't return the salute. A salute is a jester showing respect of rank (Not the person), acknowledge of a command/order & returning the salute shows the recipient the same manner. I believe there is a UCMJ Article that covers this. I'm going to take this a step further. When I was in the Navy and we docked at a Thailand Naval Base in Thailand. A U.S. Navy enlisted man (not me) fail to salute a Thailand Naval Officer. He got the max punishment allowed by the UCMJ under that article. Remember that if you going to dress one down, be sure to use common sense & tact and your Ajay squared away and use a firm authoring voice.
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Probably a “ Hey Pvt did you forget something? “. Would have sufficed. But the medical Corp is notorious for being distracted from normal military courtesy as we have a separate pecking order, where a Captain physician can be giving orders to a Lt. Col Nurse. So that makes for a feeling of rank being just a pay grade and not necessarily an indicator of authority. A young enlisted person in that environment could forget what it is like everywhere else in the military.
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SGT Joseph Dutton
Sir! I can see where your coming from so I cant vote up or down. But I have seen signs around Medical facilities with "This is a Non-saluting Area" as well in non-medical areas like common public areas like the clubs, commissary's & PX's.
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There was a captain I recall that I think did it best. An A1C forgot to salute. Captain simply said, "Forgetting something, Airman?" It took the A1C a couple of seconds, but he saluted. Captain simply smiled and saluted back saying, "As you were." Easily a learning experience without demeaning anyone.
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Was this lack of maners in one of those no Salute zone's that seem to be at most if not all Military Hospital.
I was not aware of this untill one day at Walter Reed. I was give a talking to about making all these Medical types returning a Salute.
The resion was becaues the Officer's would be doing nothing but Saluting the whole time they where outside.
If that is the case PUT UP SOME SIGNS, But the great of the day is to all ways be given No excuses.
I was not aware of this untill one day at Walter Reed. I was give a talking to about making all these Medical types returning a Salute.
The resion was becaues the Officer's would be doing nothing but Saluting the whole time they where outside.
If that is the case PUT UP SOME SIGNS, But the great of the day is to all ways be given No excuses.
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Wow. Shame on the Major for not addressing the lack of a salute.
I cannot believe we are having all this discussion about a salute that should have been given and instruction that was properly given to the offender. Next we will be talking about what is the proper way to correct someone who directly defies an order.
I cannot believe we are having all this discussion about a salute that should have been given and instruction that was properly given to the offender. Next we will be talking about what is the proper way to correct someone who directly defies an order.
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General Military Authority. Being “aggressive” maybe I’m cut from a different cloth, but from what I read that was not aggressive, direct yes not aggressive. I have learned that many new Soldiers have not had a “real talk” by most of their CoC and by all means I have no problem doing so. I don’t know if the PFC was medical or not, but being medical and in a medical unit myself I see it all the time. Being direct and aggressive have somehow been confused with one another within our society today. I say keep doing what you do and let’s get our Corp back.
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Absolutely the action should have been corrected. It is not a suggestion and in a Garrison environment it is and should be done. I remember a couple of incidents from my younger days though, being an MP. I was working the gate, back when DoD decals were issued for to gain access to the post. It was a rush hour the gate, lunch time, high noon. The sun was glaring down (before the covers at gates like now). I saw the temporary post decal (2" square) but didn't see the color. The driver (in civies) slammed on the brakes, backed up (nearly caused a collision), and yelled he didn't get a salute. I told him to pull into the defile lane, looked at the decal, rendered salute to said decal, and issued him a citation for improper backing. I ,afterwards, saluted him (since seeing his ID card, 2LT OCS) and sent him on his way.
Another time at a Payday activity, a LTC was walking towards my SSG and me. We both gave the greeting of the day. My SSG saluted, I didn't. I had my K9 on a short leash position, my SSG had not gotten his out of the vehicle yet. The LTC, started towards and began raising his voice slightly, asking SPC aren't you going to salute? Had to order him to stop and stay back (my K9 had already started leaning forward getting ready). We then explained that it was for his safety to stay and why K9 Handler with a MWD doesn't salute per regulations/policy/SOP. He was like, OK that makes sense. Lol
Another time at a Payday activity, a LTC was walking towards my SSG and me. We both gave the greeting of the day. My SSG saluted, I didn't. I had my K9 on a short leash position, my SSG had not gotten his out of the vehicle yet. The LTC, started towards and began raising his voice slightly, asking SPC aren't you going to salute? Had to order him to stop and stay back (my K9 had already started leaning forward getting ready). We then explained that it was for his safety to stay and why K9 Handler with a MWD doesn't salute per regulations/policy/SOP. He was like, OK that makes sense. Lol
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I will tell you the wrong way. In the mid 70’s a Marine Officer stopped us at the Exchange because he didn’t like the way we saluted. He made us salute over and over again. We then spread out in the parking lot forcing officers to salute us one at a time.
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CW4 John Beebe, BS, DML - great comments! When sitting out with some senior CWOs when deployed, one of them had an answer that was awesome. He stated that once CWO's became a "commissioned" rank, there was (and still is) some uncertainty about officers and warrant officers saluting. When approaching an officer, he would salute the ones who took care of their soldiers and didn't mess with them for the sake of sucking up. When he was approaching an officer who didn't get it and spent the whole deployment working on their promotion packet in their "office" instead of leading, he would act like he was going to salute and hold his arm down at the last second. Most of the time, the officer was already in the act of saluting and carried it out. The CWO would then say "that's OK, Sir - - you don't have to salute a Chief Warrant Officer." It lightened the load and we all laughed as we took a long pull on our "near beer" from the DFAC. Bunch of Army Aviators. Go figure : ).
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There are several ways this could have been address.. Personally I didn't see anything wrong with the way you addressed it.
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I can imagine how difficult and confusing that situation might have been for a SPC4. He may not have known what a Navy officer's rank insignia looks like. I always operated on a 'if you're not sure, salute anyway', basis.
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You exercised your general military authority to engage disrespect exhibited by the PFC. Regs are not written with caveats about your approach, especially when discipline has been such an issue recently.
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