Posted on Dec 14, 2018
What’s the proper way to correct someone when not saluting an officer?
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I was walking with a Navy LT and an Army Maj. (My hospital has both services) from the USO across the street to the hospital and a PFC passed and didn’t salute. I stopped and asked her, “Do enlisted soldiers not salute officers anymore?” The Maj. with me said I didn’t have to be so aggressive about it. What’s a better way of addressing it without coming off as aggressive?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 388
Grow a pair... the both of you. The PFC was in the wrong. You corrected the PFC. It could be said a million different ways. WTF!
V/R,
SBCM [SWCC/SW/PJ]
V/R,
SBCM [SWCC/SW/PJ]
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Respect should be shown. As long as the officer was not being a jerk in demanding the proper respect then speaking with the PFC, then all is good.
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Just pull said service member aside and say "hey, did you notice those officers you passed without saluting? ..make sure you're paying attention when passing other service members!" That simple. Being stopped on the spot and called out is embarassment enough for most. I've stopped fellow service members plenty of times and the soldier/sailor/airman immediately felt wrong and offered to correct themselves. Most were visibly disturbed and personally alarmed upon being put on notice. While "juniors" are taught to salute, often times they feel disrespectful staring down everyone they pass. We all have to get used to doing that! Just point it out so they "get it", being disrespectful or overly harsh does NOTHING to address the root cause - unless of course you are CERTAIN it was an intentional slight! (Doubtful). I was accused of not saluting an officer shortly after leaving basic training and was dressed down for it. I appreciated the reminder, however I NEVER even saw the officers in question. Whomever was angered by it swore I looked them dead in the eye? Moral of the story is that you don't need to force a jagged pill down the throats of subordinates..give the medicine, but no need to be destructive when "teaching".
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In the situation you outlined according to AR600-25 saluting is required and expected not just ok if the sm “remembers to”, or is paying enough attention etc. Military customs and courtesy’s , standards and required conduct exists to drive the point home that respect and compliance is REQUIRED not suggested or at the free will of the individual sm. Just as it is required to follow orders given , as they are ORDERS not suggestions. Team work , cooperation , immediate compliance are all absolutely required for mission success and completion . The military regardless of branch or rank is about the business of protecting our nation and its interests against all enemies foreign or domestic up to and including the death of these enemies as needed. This does not get done without absolute adherence to every detail, every button unbuttoned , every failure to respect the rank , every salute ducked because the sm thinks they are smart enough to secretly dodge the required respect and blow off saluting because of some personal defect or attitude out of whack , every order shortchanged or disregarded , every higher ranking soldier or officer treated in a disrespectful manner all plays to a weakened disrespectful service that when those moments that demand the highest level of response arise we have systematically set the sm up for failure by not requiring the absolute maximum in respect and compliance at all times. Any thing less is weak and potentially damaging to the service as a whole.
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Keep in mind that medical, chaplin and JAG corps are not line officers. The problem here is the Army Major didn't think much about it. Good military discipline is imperative and the PFC should have been corrected. The Major should have waited to "countermand" what you did in private. Non line officers tend to be what are called "90 day wonders". In three months they learn how to march, salute and all the military courtesies of what used to be FM 100-45 and AFM 30-30. I know these have been superceeded, but there is a current equivolent. There is a happy medium between "MAJ Frank Burns" and "CPT Hawkeye Pierce".
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Oh, wait, I didn't notice that you're a low ranking enlisted, SPC! My previous advice still stands, but, SHAME ON THOSE OFFICERS who just wanted to blow it off! You need to have a chat with your Supervisor, and have him/her talk to this Major, and point out the error of "Not Aggressive enough"...
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You should have locked her up, and gotten the names of her CC and 1st Shirt! This kind of inappropriate behavior is easy to get out of hand, unless you FIX IT, RIGHT NOW! Sure, she'll cry about how mean you are to her troopies, but, one thing for sure, SHE will never miss another salute! just one SNCO's opinion...
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What you said is completely within your right, however, what tone did you use...were you assertive or did you yell at her?? But the wording was perfect.
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You did the exact correct thing...unless you came off like a Marine DI to a recruit.
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In the Infantry especially when I was in a Ranger Bn, the proper way to correct someone who failed to salute an officer, was to "make them push Georgia down to Florida", i.e. pushups, you pick the number of repetitions. My second enlistment was in the medical corps as a Cardiac Specialist & I was stationed at Fitzsimons Army Medical Center. The expectations & means of correction are definitely lower in those duty assignments, sadly, in my opinion. However, even at the medical center, I always maintained the same standards & expected them of those around me. By the way, not a good plan to become a popular person!
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I ran into this as a 3 days out of basic army PV2 at DLI. I failed to salute a Navy Lt. Actually I never saw him, but anyway instead of it going to my E5 class leader it went to my SFC Platoon SGT. I got chewed for it but at the end of the day the SFC spaced us all out so that the LT had to salute each one of us individually. The school area was a no cover no salute area the next day. I did apologize to the LT and found out he was not the one who had an issue with it as he had never seen me either. He was over the Russian school and was a very nice guy. He sought us out often wanting to know how we felt about our training and wanting to know if we had any suggestions that might improve it. Later as an NCO I had to correct this very thing a time or two. I always took them aside and explained their mistake. I never observed it where I thought it was anything other than an honest mistake. If I had felt it was done out of disrespect it would have been an entirely different situation.
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You were right to be aggressive. It’s our job to uphold the military code of behavior. If the major wants to be lax about it that’s on him, you did what was right.
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It was not stated if the Maj. was a Medical Officer or not. It may make a difference. Most, not all, are direct commissioned, as are most Jag. Officers, and are not as disciplined/educated in customs and courtesies as others are. (No offence to anyone) They may not take the same approach as an E-4 or an OCS graduate.
Medical and Jag Officers are not there to maintain good order and Discipline! They are specialists in their trade. That is not an excuse for not bringing to the attention someone who does not render a salute when appropriate. Indoors or out. Local policy or not!
I can recall many occasions when someone much Jr. to me would pass by not saluting. My solution was to stop the individual and say. "I'm sorry Specialist or CPT.t but I failed to notice your right arm was broken". (With a smile on my face) A salute was always given and often with a smile returned.
The trick is to be able to make a correction without being a jerk. In a serious training environment as in Basic, AIT, Air Borne and Ranger Training etc. expect failure to salute to have unpleasant consequences. With my boot up your rectal orifice. In some schools there is no rank and no salutes are exchanged. Everyone gets to eat the same dirt with worms included.
About Direct Commissioned Medical and Jag. Officers in a combat environment. Read and Comment.
Situation: After two days of contact and loosing most of your platoon, you are the only NCO standing.
Everyone senior to you is a medical casualty or dead. You are a combat arms NCO E-5. Only one officer is among the survivors and a LTC. medical Surgeon. You are no longer Combat Effective as an unit. MISSION: Get back to friendly lines to take care of your wounded, refit and rearm.
Who is in command? You or the LTC?
Do you salute when the enemy can see who you are saluting?
(This based on an actual event in WW ll)
Medical and Jag Officers are not there to maintain good order and Discipline! They are specialists in their trade. That is not an excuse for not bringing to the attention someone who does not render a salute when appropriate. Indoors or out. Local policy or not!
I can recall many occasions when someone much Jr. to me would pass by not saluting. My solution was to stop the individual and say. "I'm sorry Specialist or CPT.t but I failed to notice your right arm was broken". (With a smile on my face) A salute was always given and often with a smile returned.
The trick is to be able to make a correction without being a jerk. In a serious training environment as in Basic, AIT, Air Borne and Ranger Training etc. expect failure to salute to have unpleasant consequences. With my boot up your rectal orifice. In some schools there is no rank and no salutes are exchanged. Everyone gets to eat the same dirt with worms included.
About Direct Commissioned Medical and Jag. Officers in a combat environment. Read and Comment.
Situation: After two days of contact and loosing most of your platoon, you are the only NCO standing.
Everyone senior to you is a medical casualty or dead. You are a combat arms NCO E-5. Only one officer is among the survivors and a LTC. medical Surgeon. You are no longer Combat Effective as an unit. MISSION: Get back to friendly lines to take care of your wounded, refit and rearm.
Who is in command? You or the LTC?
Do you salute when the enemy can see who you are saluting?
(This based on an actual event in WW ll)
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you wont be able to correct them, not with the members in service now, seems like they are all whiners, if you get firm with them they will say you are harrassing them and you will be reprimanded not them. The military has changed, no more discipline anymore, they will be offended.
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I wouldn't say that was aggressive but what do l know, I'm just a retired SFC.
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You were in the right and I for one am proud to hear we still have soldiers who hold others to the standard. It’s becoming a rare thing.
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I would've excused myself from the officers, caught up to the troop in question, and in a normal tone "locked her up." Quickly informed her of her infraction, got acknowledgement back from her that she understand her error , released her and moved on.
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SPC Khyle Ball, We were all trained to salute no matter the service affiliation. First off is you cannot change has happened. I would have responded to the officer with yes sir and dropped the matter for the moment. Then I would have made it a point to understand what was written in AR 600-25 then I would have found out how that corresponds to the UMCJ. Article 88 is a catchall which is commonly used. Then you could revisit the incident if you chose. In any case you will be better prepared to address the situation if it ever arises again. One thing is you can't correct the code if you do not know the code. Funny thing is we are all taught to salute and taken what we are told to what ever limit we feel is necessary to enforce it.
My advise to you is take this as a learning experience and equip yourself for the next encounter by learning the military requirements and what steps you can take if this requirement is not adhered to. Only then can you understand how to proceed if this ever happens again. Don't get me wrong a person can never know all the regulations but you can learn the ones that come up the most and that are important to you.
My advise to you is take this as a learning experience and equip yourself for the next encounter by learning the military requirements and what steps you can take if this requirement is not adhered to. Only then can you understand how to proceed if this ever happens again. Don't get me wrong a person can never know all the regulations but you can learn the ones that come up the most and that are important to you.
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I was a Navy LT, so maybe I have a bias. I would have said, "Soldier (sailor), stop where you are. These gentlemen rate a salute from you." No sarcasm, no brow beating, just a "do it."
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