Posted on May 17, 2021
What should I do when my command is unempathetic towards my family needs?
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My wife is a high risk individual and soon to be mother in less than a month. I've tried telling them she doesn't have a DL and needs me for these. It keeps interfering with their schedule and honestly I think I'm gonna switch MOS, infantry has not treated my family well. I told my 1SG when he pulled me in his office that if it comes to the Unit or my family I will always choose them. Our new 1SG has had less than a week with us and already has one soldier under him AWOL. I need suggestions on what to do about maybe a reclass, or even how to deal with my current chain of command. Even the SGM of 2nd Brigade seems to side with this command. What do I do?
Reclass
Command Climate
Family
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 13
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First off, there is no "them". The Army, your chain of command, it's not some faceless organization making choices, there are individuals.
A Reclass isn't going to change bad leaders. Bad leaders are in every organization and every MOS. I have seen entire platoons of every MOS from MI to Aviation to medical get out of the Army because of bad leaders. Bad leaders are in the civilian sector as well. Bad leaders are everywhere.
Is it bad leadership if your family is not prepared for normal life needs? If you were a civilian do you think your job would support you leaving during work hours because your wife doesn't have a driver's license? Unless there's a medical reason your spouse can't get a driver's license, any leader is going to have an issue with you leaving work to drive your spouse around during work hours.
I have seen Infantry 1SGs who make arrangements for their Soldiers to take care of their families. I didn't hear any of that from you. You didn't offer to make any kind of arrangement where you could meet your work requirements and your family duties. You pit one against the other and told your 1SG to piss off.
A different MOS, a different branch, a different career, will not change the fact that you need to manage your family life and your work life. Every job has a schedule and it is not built around your spouse's medical appointments. From what you've told us, I don't believe that your command is unsympathetic, I believe that you simply expect too much. It is very easy to work out a schedule with your platoon SGT where your spouse gets her license and drives herself to appointments like a normal person. I understand that she is due in less than a month but that means that the last six months of appointments, where she was perfectly capable of driving, she did not.
If you think that any other MOS is going to be lack a mission just because they are not infantry, they will not. The Army is built around the Infantry. When the Infantry go to the field, the supply, ordnance, MI, medical and every other MOS deploy to support them.
What do you do? You help your spouse get a license. You work with your PSG and 1SG to come up with a plan where you meet their needs and they meet yours. Your employer is never required to wrap their schedule around your needs, if you want them to make provisions for you, you need to propose a mutually beneficial arrangement. That is what adulting is
A Reclass isn't going to change bad leaders. Bad leaders are in every organization and every MOS. I have seen entire platoons of every MOS from MI to Aviation to medical get out of the Army because of bad leaders. Bad leaders are in the civilian sector as well. Bad leaders are everywhere.
Is it bad leadership if your family is not prepared for normal life needs? If you were a civilian do you think your job would support you leaving during work hours because your wife doesn't have a driver's license? Unless there's a medical reason your spouse can't get a driver's license, any leader is going to have an issue with you leaving work to drive your spouse around during work hours.
I have seen Infantry 1SGs who make arrangements for their Soldiers to take care of their families. I didn't hear any of that from you. You didn't offer to make any kind of arrangement where you could meet your work requirements and your family duties. You pit one against the other and told your 1SG to piss off.
A different MOS, a different branch, a different career, will not change the fact that you need to manage your family life and your work life. Every job has a schedule and it is not built around your spouse's medical appointments. From what you've told us, I don't believe that your command is unsympathetic, I believe that you simply expect too much. It is very easy to work out a schedule with your platoon SGT where your spouse gets her license and drives herself to appointments like a normal person. I understand that she is due in less than a month but that means that the last six months of appointments, where she was perfectly capable of driving, she did not.
If you think that any other MOS is going to be lack a mission just because they are not infantry, they will not. The Army is built around the Infantry. When the Infantry go to the field, the supply, ordnance, MI, medical and every other MOS deploy to support them.
What do you do? You help your spouse get a license. You work with your PSG and 1SG to come up with a plan where you meet their needs and they meet yours. Your employer is never required to wrap their schedule around your needs, if you want them to make provisions for you, you need to propose a mutually beneficial arrangement. That is what adulting is
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CPT Lawrence Cable
SPC Dasan Toney - It is now policy to try and move all dependents to non-Military Facilities unless something as changed recently. The wasn't the case when I was still around, but that is the path all the Military is choosing.
There is a EFMP Office for every state, have you talked to one of the regional offices about your problems? A lot of issues can be solved by just figuring out who you need to ask and that would be my first stop. Talk to the Chaplain. Whether you attend church or not, Chaplains seem to have a lot of unofficial influence that can get things accomplished that are not happening for you.
Good luck.
There is a EFMP Office for every state, have you talked to one of the regional offices about your problems? A lot of issues can be solved by just figuring out who you need to ask and that would be my first stop. Talk to the Chaplain. Whether you attend church or not, Chaplains seem to have a lot of unofficial influence that can get things accomplished that are not happening for you.
Good luck.
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SFC (Join to see)
SPC Dasan Toney there are some misconceptions you have about the medical and EFMP systems so I will clarify them for you.
1. EFMP is not signed off by the Surgeon General. It is a much more local process. Most importantly, it's a process.
2. EFMP will not change anything about your current situation if your spouse is being treated for her condition. EFMP will validate that your dependent can receive treatment at your next duty station, if not you can't go there, or else you will be going to an unaccompanied tour like Korea. If it's a rare and difficult to treat condition expect to make several tours to Korea alone in your career.
3. Your spouse was not referred off post because of lawsuit fears. Army doctors don't have a choice in who they treat. Even if a civilian is able to sue the hospital they can't sue the doctor specifically. She was referred off post because they were either at capacity or she needed more advanced care than the MTF can provide. This is a common occurrence and MTFs will frequently partner with local hospitals and medical universities for advanced care. For instance Ft Bragg partners with Duke and UNC for things like advanced or rare cancers.
4. If your spouse's EFMP is not supported, meaning there is no care available for her there, there is no room, or the care is inadequate by your doctors measure, you may request a compassionate reassignment to a location that does support it.
5. Unaccompanied tours. Sooner or later you will be on an unaccompanied tour for a year, not to mention possible deployment and training exercises that last for months. You're going to need to solve the problem of your spouse getting around at that point. Obviously she won't be pregnant, but she will need to get around with a baby or kid. Unaccompanied tours is how you reset your time on station so that your family can stay at one location. It's called homesteading and it's how people with restrictive EFMPs are able to keep the care for their dependents uninterrupted
1. EFMP is not signed off by the Surgeon General. It is a much more local process. Most importantly, it's a process.
2. EFMP will not change anything about your current situation if your spouse is being treated for her condition. EFMP will validate that your dependent can receive treatment at your next duty station, if not you can't go there, or else you will be going to an unaccompanied tour like Korea. If it's a rare and difficult to treat condition expect to make several tours to Korea alone in your career.
3. Your spouse was not referred off post because of lawsuit fears. Army doctors don't have a choice in who they treat. Even if a civilian is able to sue the hospital they can't sue the doctor specifically. She was referred off post because they were either at capacity or she needed more advanced care than the MTF can provide. This is a common occurrence and MTFs will frequently partner with local hospitals and medical universities for advanced care. For instance Ft Bragg partners with Duke and UNC for things like advanced or rare cancers.
4. If your spouse's EFMP is not supported, meaning there is no care available for her there, there is no room, or the care is inadequate by your doctors measure, you may request a compassionate reassignment to a location that does support it.
5. Unaccompanied tours. Sooner or later you will be on an unaccompanied tour for a year, not to mention possible deployment and training exercises that last for months. You're going to need to solve the problem of your spouse getting around at that point. Obviously she won't be pregnant, but she will need to get around with a baby or kid. Unaccompanied tours is how you reset your time on station so that your family can stay at one location. It's called homesteading and it's how people with restrictive EFMPs are able to keep the care for their dependents uninterrupted
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SGT Richard H.
Tagging on to the last paragraph here ((what do you do?)) I think we also see a pretty strong testament here for why FRGs were created.
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Sara Lucas
SFC (Anonymous) - excellent valid advice hope your daughter does well... Im a cardiac transplant nurse in houston texas and I cant imagine how difficult it is for you to design your career around your daughter..... well done on your part.... god bless
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A comment and a question: Comment: The military hired you, not your wife. If she is having issues send her home where family members can assist her through until you return from deployment, TDY, etc. [That was the military of the 1960s-1980s.] Question: Why don't she have a drivers license? I have a "foreign national" wife and a traveling job. As soon as we hit CONUS she got her license and we purchased a reliable car. We never looked back. Our closest relatives was 8-hours away. We made friends who became family and we helped each other through sickness, surgeries, births, deaths, and deployments. I cut many yards on Saturdays; the wife shopped for groceries, kept children, and cooked meals for those who needed help.
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SPC Dasan Toney
SMSgt Bob W. my wife was advised against getting a DL from her medical doctor. Since IIH causes seizures, headaches that leave her immobile sometimes it does make it difficult to even try to get up in the morning without hurting. There have been days where she had to be sent to the ER in an ambulance because of it. Her Birth is also a complicated one because of what she has. It's not easy, and my command is tiptoeing around carefully to ensure we get the help we need, and make sure they can prevent a claim on my end just in case I need to train and somehow needs to get back to her when these hit. In the eyes of the militsry I'm a liability, because not only can it become difficult to train Is something happens to her, but if something does happen that's a massive payout and a loss because you can be rest assured people have died with IIH. In that event I would require a discharge, and I do involve the media when there's lack there of in the military. When mitigation is plausible is when it becomes negligence, just as there are regs for the militsry, there are apouses. I'm an outcast to my whole platoon because of this, it's hard to trust the people of an organization who's best interest is for the military when my own is for both. This is nothing personal but I guess if or when the time comes that shit Rolls downhill It'll only look bad, there won't be any positives and I won't heistitate to expose any organization. The whole "this is how it's always been" doesn't work anymore, there's a while lot of Grey area in the military because it's covered by Regs, and every reg has its counter reg. Anyway I gotta go prep for field days so I won't be responding for a couple of days. Thank you for your time
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SMSgt Bob W.
SPC Dasan Toney - You do have some issues. I agree you should make the best of this enlistment and hopefully can use your MOS to seek employment in the civilian sector where you will be paid for your worth and without other distractions. The best of luck and hopefully your friends outside of the military can help.
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Your wife has been pregnant now for months. Which means you have had months to cone up with a viable transportation plan. You have failed to do so. How is that the Army's fault?
Good leaders follow the mantra of mission, men, myself. Mission ALWAYS comes first. Always. Yes, "taking care of Soldiers" also means taking care of their families. But is only goes so far. The unit still has a mission to perform, and you are part of that mission. If you don't understand that, and are unwilling to accept it, the Army is not for you. Kindly step aside and let someone who will fulfill their obligations and complete the mission to take your place. If you are not willing to complete the mission, you are dead weight.
Why is the Army unsympathetic to families? They aren't. But empathy doesn't mean letting the SPCs dictate their own schedule and decide when they will be available for DUTY.
Read your own post. Examine your recent actions and attitude. And do a self-evaluation. How are *you* currently exhibiting Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage?
To me, it sounds like you have a serious problem living up to the Army values. This isn't a problem with the Army; it is a problem with how one specific SPC thinks he is special.
TL;DR version: it's not them, it's you.
Good leaders follow the mantra of mission, men, myself. Mission ALWAYS comes first. Always. Yes, "taking care of Soldiers" also means taking care of their families. But is only goes so far. The unit still has a mission to perform, and you are part of that mission. If you don't understand that, and are unwilling to accept it, the Army is not for you. Kindly step aside and let someone who will fulfill their obligations and complete the mission to take your place. If you are not willing to complete the mission, you are dead weight.
Why is the Army unsympathetic to families? They aren't. But empathy doesn't mean letting the SPCs dictate their own schedule and decide when they will be available for DUTY.
Read your own post. Examine your recent actions and attitude. And do a self-evaluation. How are *you* currently exhibiting Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage?
To me, it sounds like you have a serious problem living up to the Army values. This isn't a problem with the Army; it is a problem with how one specific SPC thinks he is special.
TL;DR version: it's not them, it's you.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
You say that you are asking for advice, but your post was one long diatribe about how the Army doesn't give a shit about you or your wife. You weren't asking for advice, you were engaging in self-martyrdom. But since you say you were asking for advice, I will point out that I DID offer you advice. Just because you don't LIKE the advice, doesn't mean it wasn't given. To make it more clear here is my advice: adjust your attitude or leave the Army.
If you are in the field and your wife goes to the ER, you will PROBABLY be sent back to take care of her. Probably. No guarantees. Mission comes first. Always. My first deployment to Iraq, my kid was born three days after I flew... on ADVON. I asked to be left back and fly on a later date so I could witness the birth of my child, and my CoC said that I was too important to the ADVON mission to go at a later date. Mission first. I didn't like it, but I sucked it up and did my damned job.
You keep trying to say that if you, personally, are not available to drive your wife to an appointment, she will die. Which is just plain ridiculous.
Finally, let's look at Army values. ARMY Values, not SPC Toney values. You are taking the Army values and making them about YOU, not about the Army.
Definitions for the values is pulled from https://www.goarmy.com/soldier-life/being-a-soldier/living-the-army-values.html
Loyalty: Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit and other Soldiers.
You have instead chosen to be loyal to your family and yourself. This is fine for an individual - but not for a Soldier.
Duty: Fulfill your obligations. Doing your duty means more than carrying out your assigned tasks. Duty means being able to accomplish tasks as part of a team.
You are asking why the Army is requiring you to fulfill your obligations. You are asking to be an individual rather than part of a team. And you yourself admitted than you are only a hard worker "when [you] need to be" and that the Army is no longer your priority.
Respect: Treat people as they should be treated.
It is not "give me respect before I give you respect." It is all Soldiers giving each other mutual respect from the get-go. Even in the Infantry.
Selfless Service: Put the welfare of the Nation, the Army and your subordinates before your own.
You are obviously putting the welfare of your family (and,by extension, yourself) before the Nation or the Army
Honor: Live up to Army values.
Already discussed in the other values.
Integrity: Do what’s right, legally and morally.
I believe you are trying to do what you feel is right. But your priorities do not align with the Army's priorities.
Personal Courage: Face fear, danger or adversity (physical or moral).
You are standing up for yourself and your family, in the face of hostility from the CoC. Yes, you are showing personal courage.
If you are in the field and your wife goes to the ER, you will PROBABLY be sent back to take care of her. Probably. No guarantees. Mission comes first. Always. My first deployment to Iraq, my kid was born three days after I flew... on ADVON. I asked to be left back and fly on a later date so I could witness the birth of my child, and my CoC said that I was too important to the ADVON mission to go at a later date. Mission first. I didn't like it, but I sucked it up and did my damned job.
You keep trying to say that if you, personally, are not available to drive your wife to an appointment, she will die. Which is just plain ridiculous.
Finally, let's look at Army values. ARMY Values, not SPC Toney values. You are taking the Army values and making them about YOU, not about the Army.
Definitions for the values is pulled from https://www.goarmy.com/soldier-life/being-a-soldier/living-the-army-values.html
Loyalty: Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit and other Soldiers.
You have instead chosen to be loyal to your family and yourself. This is fine for an individual - but not for a Soldier.
Duty: Fulfill your obligations. Doing your duty means more than carrying out your assigned tasks. Duty means being able to accomplish tasks as part of a team.
You are asking why the Army is requiring you to fulfill your obligations. You are asking to be an individual rather than part of a team. And you yourself admitted than you are only a hard worker "when [you] need to be" and that the Army is no longer your priority.
Respect: Treat people as they should be treated.
It is not "give me respect before I give you respect." It is all Soldiers giving each other mutual respect from the get-go. Even in the Infantry.
Selfless Service: Put the welfare of the Nation, the Army and your subordinates before your own.
You are obviously putting the welfare of your family (and,by extension, yourself) before the Nation or the Army
Honor: Live up to Army values.
Already discussed in the other values.
Integrity: Do what’s right, legally and morally.
I believe you are trying to do what you feel is right. But your priorities do not align with the Army's priorities.
Personal Courage: Face fear, danger or adversity (physical or moral).
You are standing up for yourself and your family, in the face of hostility from the CoC. Yes, you are showing personal courage.
See how Soldiers are putting the Seven Core Army Values into action when they're on duty and off.
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SPC Dasan Toney
SSgt Joseph Baptist Man up, commitment to the military. She's in EFMP I've said that like a million times. I've got a commitment to my family well and if they cannot realize the help I have asked for that's not my problem we will pack up and leave. I'm not throwing a pitty party. I asked for advice in regards to helpful advice not the Same old useless rescources that have t helped since we have been here. If it was useful it would have not been a problem. I realize my commitment i have realized if for four freaking years. Seems like the military only cares about itself. Selfish don't you think, must mean the core values of the Army don't mean anything do they just a bunch of hypocritical bs
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SSG Edward Tilton
There are two groups, an inner circle of those who get all of the benefits and everyone else. Have any spouses contacted your wife? What is high risk, does she bite?
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