Posted on May 17, 2021
What should I do when my command is unempathetic towards my family needs?
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My wife is a high risk individual and soon to be mother in less than a month. I've tried telling them she doesn't have a DL and needs me for these. It keeps interfering with their schedule and honestly I think I'm gonna switch MOS, infantry has not treated my family well. I told my 1SG when he pulled me in his office that if it comes to the Unit or my family I will always choose them. Our new 1SG has had less than a week with us and already has one soldier under him AWOL. I need suggestions on what to do about maybe a reclass, or even how to deal with my current chain of command. Even the SGM of 2nd Brigade seems to side with this command. What do I do?
Reclass
Command Climate
Family
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 13
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First off, there is no "them". The Army, your chain of command, it's not some faceless organization making choices, there are individuals.
A Reclass isn't going to change bad leaders. Bad leaders are in every organization and every MOS. I have seen entire platoons of every MOS from MI to Aviation to medical get out of the Army because of bad leaders. Bad leaders are in the civilian sector as well. Bad leaders are everywhere.
Is it bad leadership if your family is not prepared for normal life needs? If you were a civilian do you think your job would support you leaving during work hours because your wife doesn't have a driver's license? Unless there's a medical reason your spouse can't get a driver's license, any leader is going to have an issue with you leaving work to drive your spouse around during work hours.
I have seen Infantry 1SGs who make arrangements for their Soldiers to take care of their families. I didn't hear any of that from you. You didn't offer to make any kind of arrangement where you could meet your work requirements and your family duties. You pit one against the other and told your 1SG to piss off.
A different MOS, a different branch, a different career, will not change the fact that you need to manage your family life and your work life. Every job has a schedule and it is not built around your spouse's medical appointments. From what you've told us, I don't believe that your command is unsympathetic, I believe that you simply expect too much. It is very easy to work out a schedule with your platoon SGT where your spouse gets her license and drives herself to appointments like a normal person. I understand that she is due in less than a month but that means that the last six months of appointments, where she was perfectly capable of driving, she did not.
If you think that any other MOS is going to be lack a mission just because they are not infantry, they will not. The Army is built around the Infantry. When the Infantry go to the field, the supply, ordnance, MI, medical and every other MOS deploy to support them.
What do you do? You help your spouse get a license. You work with your PSG and 1SG to come up with a plan where you meet their needs and they meet yours. Your employer is never required to wrap their schedule around your needs, if you want them to make provisions for you, you need to propose a mutually beneficial arrangement. That is what adulting is
A Reclass isn't going to change bad leaders. Bad leaders are in every organization and every MOS. I have seen entire platoons of every MOS from MI to Aviation to medical get out of the Army because of bad leaders. Bad leaders are in the civilian sector as well. Bad leaders are everywhere.
Is it bad leadership if your family is not prepared for normal life needs? If you were a civilian do you think your job would support you leaving during work hours because your wife doesn't have a driver's license? Unless there's a medical reason your spouse can't get a driver's license, any leader is going to have an issue with you leaving work to drive your spouse around during work hours.
I have seen Infantry 1SGs who make arrangements for their Soldiers to take care of their families. I didn't hear any of that from you. You didn't offer to make any kind of arrangement where you could meet your work requirements and your family duties. You pit one against the other and told your 1SG to piss off.
A different MOS, a different branch, a different career, will not change the fact that you need to manage your family life and your work life. Every job has a schedule and it is not built around your spouse's medical appointments. From what you've told us, I don't believe that your command is unsympathetic, I believe that you simply expect too much. It is very easy to work out a schedule with your platoon SGT where your spouse gets her license and drives herself to appointments like a normal person. I understand that she is due in less than a month but that means that the last six months of appointments, where she was perfectly capable of driving, she did not.
If you think that any other MOS is going to be lack a mission just because they are not infantry, they will not. The Army is built around the Infantry. When the Infantry go to the field, the supply, ordnance, MI, medical and every other MOS deploy to support them.
What do you do? You help your spouse get a license. You work with your PSG and 1SG to come up with a plan where you meet their needs and they meet yours. Your employer is never required to wrap their schedule around your needs, if you want them to make provisions for you, you need to propose a mutually beneficial arrangement. That is what adulting is
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CPT Lawrence Cable
SPC Dasan Toney - It is now policy to try and move all dependents to non-Military Facilities unless something as changed recently. The wasn't the case when I was still around, but that is the path all the Military is choosing.
There is a EFMP Office for every state, have you talked to one of the regional offices about your problems? A lot of issues can be solved by just figuring out who you need to ask and that would be my first stop. Talk to the Chaplain. Whether you attend church or not, Chaplains seem to have a lot of unofficial influence that can get things accomplished that are not happening for you.
Good luck.
There is a EFMP Office for every state, have you talked to one of the regional offices about your problems? A lot of issues can be solved by just figuring out who you need to ask and that would be my first stop. Talk to the Chaplain. Whether you attend church or not, Chaplains seem to have a lot of unofficial influence that can get things accomplished that are not happening for you.
Good luck.
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SFC (Join to see)
SPC Dasan Toney there are some misconceptions you have about the medical and EFMP systems so I will clarify them for you.
1. EFMP is not signed off by the Surgeon General. It is a much more local process. Most importantly, it's a process.
2. EFMP will not change anything about your current situation if your spouse is being treated for her condition. EFMP will validate that your dependent can receive treatment at your next duty station, if not you can't go there, or else you will be going to an unaccompanied tour like Korea. If it's a rare and difficult to treat condition expect to make several tours to Korea alone in your career.
3. Your spouse was not referred off post because of lawsuit fears. Army doctors don't have a choice in who they treat. Even if a civilian is able to sue the hospital they can't sue the doctor specifically. She was referred off post because they were either at capacity or she needed more advanced care than the MTF can provide. This is a common occurrence and MTFs will frequently partner with local hospitals and medical universities for advanced care. For instance Ft Bragg partners with Duke and UNC for things like advanced or rare cancers.
4. If your spouse's EFMP is not supported, meaning there is no care available for her there, there is no room, or the care is inadequate by your doctors measure, you may request a compassionate reassignment to a location that does support it.
5. Unaccompanied tours. Sooner or later you will be on an unaccompanied tour for a year, not to mention possible deployment and training exercises that last for months. You're going to need to solve the problem of your spouse getting around at that point. Obviously she won't be pregnant, but she will need to get around with a baby or kid. Unaccompanied tours is how you reset your time on station so that your family can stay at one location. It's called homesteading and it's how people with restrictive EFMPs are able to keep the care for their dependents uninterrupted
1. EFMP is not signed off by the Surgeon General. It is a much more local process. Most importantly, it's a process.
2. EFMP will not change anything about your current situation if your spouse is being treated for her condition. EFMP will validate that your dependent can receive treatment at your next duty station, if not you can't go there, or else you will be going to an unaccompanied tour like Korea. If it's a rare and difficult to treat condition expect to make several tours to Korea alone in your career.
3. Your spouse was not referred off post because of lawsuit fears. Army doctors don't have a choice in who they treat. Even if a civilian is able to sue the hospital they can't sue the doctor specifically. She was referred off post because they were either at capacity or she needed more advanced care than the MTF can provide. This is a common occurrence and MTFs will frequently partner with local hospitals and medical universities for advanced care. For instance Ft Bragg partners with Duke and UNC for things like advanced or rare cancers.
4. If your spouse's EFMP is not supported, meaning there is no care available for her there, there is no room, or the care is inadequate by your doctors measure, you may request a compassionate reassignment to a location that does support it.
5. Unaccompanied tours. Sooner or later you will be on an unaccompanied tour for a year, not to mention possible deployment and training exercises that last for months. You're going to need to solve the problem of your spouse getting around at that point. Obviously she won't be pregnant, but she will need to get around with a baby or kid. Unaccompanied tours is how you reset your time on station so that your family can stay at one location. It's called homesteading and it's how people with restrictive EFMPs are able to keep the care for their dependents uninterrupted
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SGT Richard H.
Tagging on to the last paragraph here ((what do you do?)) I think we also see a pretty strong testament here for why FRGs were created.
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Sara Lucas
SFC (Anonymous) - excellent valid advice hope your daughter does well... Im a cardiac transplant nurse in houston texas and I cant imagine how difficult it is for you to design your career around your daughter..... well done on your part.... god bless
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A comment and a question: Comment: The military hired you, not your wife. If she is having issues send her home where family members can assist her through until you return from deployment, TDY, etc. [That was the military of the 1960s-1980s.] Question: Why don't she have a drivers license? I have a "foreign national" wife and a traveling job. As soon as we hit CONUS she got her license and we purchased a reliable car. We never looked back. Our closest relatives was 8-hours away. We made friends who became family and we helped each other through sickness, surgeries, births, deaths, and deployments. I cut many yards on Saturdays; the wife shopped for groceries, kept children, and cooked meals for those who needed help.
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SPC Dasan Toney
SMSgt Bob W. my wife was advised against getting a DL from her medical doctor. Since IIH causes seizures, headaches that leave her immobile sometimes it does make it difficult to even try to get up in the morning without hurting. There have been days where she had to be sent to the ER in an ambulance because of it. Her Birth is also a complicated one because of what she has. It's not easy, and my command is tiptoeing around carefully to ensure we get the help we need, and make sure they can prevent a claim on my end just in case I need to train and somehow needs to get back to her when these hit. In the eyes of the militsry I'm a liability, because not only can it become difficult to train Is something happens to her, but if something does happen that's a massive payout and a loss because you can be rest assured people have died with IIH. In that event I would require a discharge, and I do involve the media when there's lack there of in the military. When mitigation is plausible is when it becomes negligence, just as there are regs for the militsry, there are apouses. I'm an outcast to my whole platoon because of this, it's hard to trust the people of an organization who's best interest is for the military when my own is for both. This is nothing personal but I guess if or when the time comes that shit Rolls downhill It'll only look bad, there won't be any positives and I won't heistitate to expose any organization. The whole "this is how it's always been" doesn't work anymore, there's a while lot of Grey area in the military because it's covered by Regs, and every reg has its counter reg. Anyway I gotta go prep for field days so I won't be responding for a couple of days. Thank you for your time
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SMSgt Bob W.
SPC Dasan Toney - You do have some issues. I agree you should make the best of this enlistment and hopefully can use your MOS to seek employment in the civilian sector where you will be paid for your worth and without other distractions. The best of luck and hopefully your friends outside of the military can help.
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Your wife has been pregnant now for months. Which means you have had months to cone up with a viable transportation plan. You have failed to do so. How is that the Army's fault?
Good leaders follow the mantra of mission, men, myself. Mission ALWAYS comes first. Always. Yes, "taking care of Soldiers" also means taking care of their families. But is only goes so far. The unit still has a mission to perform, and you are part of that mission. If you don't understand that, and are unwilling to accept it, the Army is not for you. Kindly step aside and let someone who will fulfill their obligations and complete the mission to take your place. If you are not willing to complete the mission, you are dead weight.
Why is the Army unsympathetic to families? They aren't. But empathy doesn't mean letting the SPCs dictate their own schedule and decide when they will be available for DUTY.
Read your own post. Examine your recent actions and attitude. And do a self-evaluation. How are *you* currently exhibiting Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage?
To me, it sounds like you have a serious problem living up to the Army values. This isn't a problem with the Army; it is a problem with how one specific SPC thinks he is special.
TL;DR version: it's not them, it's you.
Good leaders follow the mantra of mission, men, myself. Mission ALWAYS comes first. Always. Yes, "taking care of Soldiers" also means taking care of their families. But is only goes so far. The unit still has a mission to perform, and you are part of that mission. If you don't understand that, and are unwilling to accept it, the Army is not for you. Kindly step aside and let someone who will fulfill their obligations and complete the mission to take your place. If you are not willing to complete the mission, you are dead weight.
Why is the Army unsympathetic to families? They aren't. But empathy doesn't mean letting the SPCs dictate their own schedule and decide when they will be available for DUTY.
Read your own post. Examine your recent actions and attitude. And do a self-evaluation. How are *you* currently exhibiting Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage?
To me, it sounds like you have a serious problem living up to the Army values. This isn't a problem with the Army; it is a problem with how one specific SPC thinks he is special.
TL;DR version: it's not them, it's you.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
You say that you are asking for advice, but your post was one long diatribe about how the Army doesn't give a shit about you or your wife. You weren't asking for advice, you were engaging in self-martyrdom. But since you say you were asking for advice, I will point out that I DID offer you advice. Just because you don't LIKE the advice, doesn't mean it wasn't given. To make it more clear here is my advice: adjust your attitude or leave the Army.
If you are in the field and your wife goes to the ER, you will PROBABLY be sent back to take care of her. Probably. No guarantees. Mission comes first. Always. My first deployment to Iraq, my kid was born three days after I flew... on ADVON. I asked to be left back and fly on a later date so I could witness the birth of my child, and my CoC said that I was too important to the ADVON mission to go at a later date. Mission first. I didn't like it, but I sucked it up and did my damned job.
You keep trying to say that if you, personally, are not available to drive your wife to an appointment, she will die. Which is just plain ridiculous.
Finally, let's look at Army values. ARMY Values, not SPC Toney values. You are taking the Army values and making them about YOU, not about the Army.
Definitions for the values is pulled from https://www.goarmy.com/soldier-life/being-a-soldier/living-the-army-values.html
Loyalty: Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit and other Soldiers.
You have instead chosen to be loyal to your family and yourself. This is fine for an individual - but not for a Soldier.
Duty: Fulfill your obligations. Doing your duty means more than carrying out your assigned tasks. Duty means being able to accomplish tasks as part of a team.
You are asking why the Army is requiring you to fulfill your obligations. You are asking to be an individual rather than part of a team. And you yourself admitted than you are only a hard worker "when [you] need to be" and that the Army is no longer your priority.
Respect: Treat people as they should be treated.
It is not "give me respect before I give you respect." It is all Soldiers giving each other mutual respect from the get-go. Even in the Infantry.
Selfless Service: Put the welfare of the Nation, the Army and your subordinates before your own.
You are obviously putting the welfare of your family (and,by extension, yourself) before the Nation or the Army
Honor: Live up to Army values.
Already discussed in the other values.
Integrity: Do what’s right, legally and morally.
I believe you are trying to do what you feel is right. But your priorities do not align with the Army's priorities.
Personal Courage: Face fear, danger or adversity (physical or moral).
You are standing up for yourself and your family, in the face of hostility from the CoC. Yes, you are showing personal courage.
If you are in the field and your wife goes to the ER, you will PROBABLY be sent back to take care of her. Probably. No guarantees. Mission comes first. Always. My first deployment to Iraq, my kid was born three days after I flew... on ADVON. I asked to be left back and fly on a later date so I could witness the birth of my child, and my CoC said that I was too important to the ADVON mission to go at a later date. Mission first. I didn't like it, but I sucked it up and did my damned job.
You keep trying to say that if you, personally, are not available to drive your wife to an appointment, she will die. Which is just plain ridiculous.
Finally, let's look at Army values. ARMY Values, not SPC Toney values. You are taking the Army values and making them about YOU, not about the Army.
Definitions for the values is pulled from https://www.goarmy.com/soldier-life/being-a-soldier/living-the-army-values.html
Loyalty: Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit and other Soldiers.
You have instead chosen to be loyal to your family and yourself. This is fine for an individual - but not for a Soldier.
Duty: Fulfill your obligations. Doing your duty means more than carrying out your assigned tasks. Duty means being able to accomplish tasks as part of a team.
You are asking why the Army is requiring you to fulfill your obligations. You are asking to be an individual rather than part of a team. And you yourself admitted than you are only a hard worker "when [you] need to be" and that the Army is no longer your priority.
Respect: Treat people as they should be treated.
It is not "give me respect before I give you respect." It is all Soldiers giving each other mutual respect from the get-go. Even in the Infantry.
Selfless Service: Put the welfare of the Nation, the Army and your subordinates before your own.
You are obviously putting the welfare of your family (and,by extension, yourself) before the Nation or the Army
Honor: Live up to Army values.
Already discussed in the other values.
Integrity: Do what’s right, legally and morally.
I believe you are trying to do what you feel is right. But your priorities do not align with the Army's priorities.
Personal Courage: Face fear, danger or adversity (physical or moral).
You are standing up for yourself and your family, in the face of hostility from the CoC. Yes, you are showing personal courage.
See how Soldiers are putting the Seven Core Army Values into action when they're on duty and off.
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SPC Dasan Toney
SSgt Joseph Baptist Man up, commitment to the military. She's in EFMP I've said that like a million times. I've got a commitment to my family well and if they cannot realize the help I have asked for that's not my problem we will pack up and leave. I'm not throwing a pitty party. I asked for advice in regards to helpful advice not the Same old useless rescources that have t helped since we have been here. If it was useful it would have not been a problem. I realize my commitment i have realized if for four freaking years. Seems like the military only cares about itself. Selfish don't you think, must mean the core values of the Army don't mean anything do they just a bunch of hypocritical bs
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SSG Edward Tilton
There are two groups, an inner circle of those who get all of the benefits and everyone else. Have any spouses contacted your wife? What is high risk, does she bite?
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Don't do anything stupid like going AWOL. That won't help anyone, especially your soon to be larger family.
My 2 cents... It is incumbent upon Service Members to be ready in all respects to do their job/deploy/etc. Things come up, and most command understand that. Unfortunately, if I was your PLT LDR, I would certainly wonder why you waited until almost the end of the pregnancy to tell us you have issues. You may have laid preliminary groundwork, but all I read is that your 1SG said some things... TO me as a leader, it automatically puts me in a defensive attitude that you are trying to get out of stuff, and I will act appropriately. Sorry, but that is the way it is. With only so many hours in the day, and an always growing task list, I will take the path of least resistance in this case, and I would find a way to get you out of the command.
That being said, there are things you can do to help your situation out. For one, talk to the chaplains. See what they recommend. They see this kind of stuff probably more than they like. Have them help you get a plan together (whatever that may be for you), and then bring that to your leadership. Again, if I was your PLT LDR, and you came to me with a plan you had already worked on and gotten buy in from others, then I would more than likely go with it if we can support it, regardless of how little time you have given us to look into things.
Hope things work out for you. You have a growing family and other things. Hopefully, you will get the help/orders that you need. Be prepared for them to not be exactly what you want. You signed a contract after all, but hopefully they can find something that works for all.
My 2 cents... It is incumbent upon Service Members to be ready in all respects to do their job/deploy/etc. Things come up, and most command understand that. Unfortunately, if I was your PLT LDR, I would certainly wonder why you waited until almost the end of the pregnancy to tell us you have issues. You may have laid preliminary groundwork, but all I read is that your 1SG said some things... TO me as a leader, it automatically puts me in a defensive attitude that you are trying to get out of stuff, and I will act appropriately. Sorry, but that is the way it is. With only so many hours in the day, and an always growing task list, I will take the path of least resistance in this case, and I would find a way to get you out of the command.
That being said, there are things you can do to help your situation out. For one, talk to the chaplains. See what they recommend. They see this kind of stuff probably more than they like. Have them help you get a plan together (whatever that may be for you), and then bring that to your leadership. Again, if I was your PLT LDR, and you came to me with a plan you had already worked on and gotten buy in from others, then I would more than likely go with it if we can support it, regardless of how little time you have given us to look into things.
Hope things work out for you. You have a growing family and other things. Hopefully, you will get the help/orders that you need. Be prepared for them to not be exactly what you want. You signed a contract after all, but hopefully they can find something that works for all.
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SPC Dasan Toney
LT Brad McInnis why is everyone saying I'm trying to get out of stuff. Incpuld just say every leader is too skeptical and never trusts a soldier because for one
I didn't wait the last second, jts been a battle for 6 months with my command
Two:
I've been working, so let's not assume I'm getting out of things.
Three: I have a plan and honestly it may be too late for that. I've been in the army for almost four years, in the three years of my first contract I had no problem with being at work jn the Army. Now I'm just stuck with this command, but with this chain of command if it ends up being too much my whole family would do what's best for us. That's it. I would push for a discharge because if every leader wants to assume I'm just doing the wrong thing because it doesn't fit their book standard of regs I might get out. If they don't listen my family will pack up and leave.
I didn't wait the last second, jts been a battle for 6 months with my command
Two:
I've been working, so let's not assume I'm getting out of things.
Three: I have a plan and honestly it may be too late for that. I've been in the army for almost four years, in the three years of my first contract I had no problem with being at work jn the Army. Now I'm just stuck with this command, but with this chain of command if it ends up being too much my whole family would do what's best for us. That's it. I would push for a discharge because if every leader wants to assume I'm just doing the wrong thing because it doesn't fit their book standard of regs I might get out. If they don't listen my family will pack up and leave.
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LT Brad McInnis
SPC Dasan Toney - Because 9 times out of 10, that is what it is. If you aren't, then great. Talk to the chaps, they are your best resource in this case. They can help you more than anyone here can trying to infer things from a written post. Just don't do anything dumb like going AWOL. That is the biggest tip I can give you from limited info. Not saying you are thinking of it, it is just that most of us have seen things like this before, and people get frustrated. Going AWOL never makes a situation better.
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SPC Dasan Toney
SSgt Joseph Baptist I don't care about your opinion. All you're doing is arguing. I'm not fit for militsry service because I realized it only cares for what it does. Like I said before I've been working, I've been authorized to leave when leadership says so, until then I do what I'm told when I'm told. You must not be listening because If my chain of command authorizes it that's the word. Jesus christ dude
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LT Brad McInnis
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff - Have you ever watched any of these shows? I like weird sic-fi stuff, but even this guy is too much for me...
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I perceive a problem here. It appears to me that you are blaming a 1SG for a soldier going AWOL. That is nonsense.
Second, you've stated that your wife doesn't have a Driver's License and she needs you for "these." These what? I'll proceed as if "these" are appointments. When scheduling medical appointments, it is perfectly acceptable to tell the clerk scheduling the "Nope, that doesn't work." Talk to your chain of command, let them know, in general, how frequently your wife must make appointments. Ask if there are preferred days of the week or preferred times of the day for those appointments that would least interfere with your duties.
Third, You need back up. That may be a friend, another military spouse, etc. etc. If you are in the field or not immediately available, and your wife goes into labor that backup may prove vital. When I was a 2ndLt Platoon Leader with a pregnant wife, The Bn Chaplain had lined up back-up for every pregnant spouse 2 or 3 deep. Talk to the unit Chaplain, this kind of thing is way more than half of what they do.
Fourth. If your wife is expecting in the next month, any administrative action, like re-classifying your MOS isn't going to happen before she delivers.
Second, you've stated that your wife doesn't have a Driver's License and she needs you for "these." These what? I'll proceed as if "these" are appointments. When scheduling medical appointments, it is perfectly acceptable to tell the clerk scheduling the "Nope, that doesn't work." Talk to your chain of command, let them know, in general, how frequently your wife must make appointments. Ask if there are preferred days of the week or preferred times of the day for those appointments that would least interfere with your duties.
Third, You need back up. That may be a friend, another military spouse, etc. etc. If you are in the field or not immediately available, and your wife goes into labor that backup may prove vital. When I was a 2ndLt Platoon Leader with a pregnant wife, The Bn Chaplain had lined up back-up for every pregnant spouse 2 or 3 deep. Talk to the unit Chaplain, this kind of thing is way more than half of what they do.
Fourth. If your wife is expecting in the next month, any administrative action, like re-classifying your MOS isn't going to happen before she delivers.
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No shit, here is the truth, no playing around - You raised your right hand, you voluntarily signed a commitment, and the mission comes first. Your wife has these options - bus, taxi, uber, lyft, a girlfriend. You JOB provides the healthcare for her, pays your bills, puts a roof over your head, food on the table. While we try to work with Soldiers and their issues, the bottom line is, figure out a way to do it high speed, because Command is not going to let you go everytime she has an appointment. Put on your adult pants and problem solve.
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So your spouse has been pregnant for eight months, does not have a driver license, and you have not come up with a viable plan. What I read here is a Soldier who has failed to make appropriate family care plans and somehow blames the Army for being unsympathetic. Under stand this: YOU do NOT make policy to those senior in rank/position to yourself. Making comments such as "family before unit" could be seen as communicating a threat (as in, you do this or I'll do that type situation) and could potentially open you to UCMJ actions. Personally, had you made that comment to me, your request for administrative discharge would be on the Commander's desk for review before the end of the duty day. Your Command might make accommodations IF they feel like it and it doesn't interfere with mission completion. They are under no obligation except in very limited and extreme circumstance to make allowances for family care, and is usually under the Exceptional Family Member Program (EFMP). That is YOUR responsibility, not your unit, the Army, or DoD as a whole to make appropriate care plans for your family. I'm willing to bet there are multiple programs such as non-emergent medical transport services, Uber, Lyft, friends, neighbors, etc you have not even attempted to make use of. Instead, you want the Army to make an exception for one special little snowflake because they feel entitled. Incidentally, since you didn't make mention of it, have you spoken with your wife's PCM about the possibility of enrolling in EFMP? If her condition warrants it, EFMP might go a long way in easing some of your troubles. Idiopathic Intracranial Hypertension (IIH) isn't a death sentence but does require due diligence on the patient's part to manage symptoms. I'll grant you post pregnancy will most likely make management of IIH easier.
My suggestion to you SPC Toney is to stop blaming everyone else for your own shortcomings and start handling your business. Frankly, the comment about another Soldier being AWOL is a non-issue to your circumstance. As a civilian supervisor, I wouldn't tolerate your constant absences and complaining either. I've sent more than one former employee to the unemployment line for constantly being absent because of "family issues". I don't need you if I can't depend on you. You were hired (in this case, Enlisted) to do a job. If you are unable or unwilling to meet those obligations, then it would be best for all concerned if you moved on and made room for someone who DOES want to be part of the team.
My suggestion to you SPC Toney is to stop blaming everyone else for your own shortcomings and start handling your business. Frankly, the comment about another Soldier being AWOL is a non-issue to your circumstance. As a civilian supervisor, I wouldn't tolerate your constant absences and complaining either. I've sent more than one former employee to the unemployment line for constantly being absent because of "family issues". I don't need you if I can't depend on you. You were hired (in this case, Enlisted) to do a job. If you are unable or unwilling to meet those obligations, then it would be best for all concerned if you moved on and made room for someone who DOES want to be part of the team.
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SPC Dasan Toney
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff you're not very clever are you?? If you want to trade blows on Social Media I can do that too.
EFMP has taken months and I've proved it time and time again, why do you think my leadership hasn't punished me for it, duh.
And yes, veterans often provide more for this shit organization and end up homeless, or with no rescources because the VA decided to take their sweet ass time. I've got many Veteran friends who served long before I did, so yeah I got a little proof with that sidenote. Nobody wants to be overworked. And no there isn't balance, maybe you're not infantry and don't know what it's like to be at the COF until 1900-20000,maybe you haven't spent weeks out in the field consistently, and maybe just maybe you're so use to getting off at 1700 that it's easy for you to say, it's totally possible. There are plenty of options, and I've been called many names, narcissistic isn't one of them, asshole sure, dumbest sure not this one. You're actually the first to call me that on a social media platform. The Civilian life actually treated us way better than this, despite its lies in likes to spread. Oh did I mention we have a 20 acre, 5 bd house back home?? I could get out any time I wanted and I wouldn't blink a damn eye.
As far as college I already did that before the militsry and I joined because I had loans I wanted help with paying off.
As far as me having no right to drag them, veterans help SM every fucking day, American legion,VFW, they all have been allianced with the military for a long time. They support my cause.
And yes veteran suicide is that simple, you get out, can't find a job, on the streets, here's my way out. Lack if understanding from the Civilian side feeling alone. My Grandfsther was one of them. So yeah I think I can speak for veterans after hearing some of the stories about when they got out.
EFMP has taken months and I've proved it time and time again, why do you think my leadership hasn't punished me for it, duh.
And yes, veterans often provide more for this shit organization and end up homeless, or with no rescources because the VA decided to take their sweet ass time. I've got many Veteran friends who served long before I did, so yeah I got a little proof with that sidenote. Nobody wants to be overworked. And no there isn't balance, maybe you're not infantry and don't know what it's like to be at the COF until 1900-20000,maybe you haven't spent weeks out in the field consistently, and maybe just maybe you're so use to getting off at 1700 that it's easy for you to say, it's totally possible. There are plenty of options, and I've been called many names, narcissistic isn't one of them, asshole sure, dumbest sure not this one. You're actually the first to call me that on a social media platform. The Civilian life actually treated us way better than this, despite its lies in likes to spread. Oh did I mention we have a 20 acre, 5 bd house back home?? I could get out any time I wanted and I wouldn't blink a damn eye.
As far as college I already did that before the militsry and I joined because I had loans I wanted help with paying off.
As far as me having no right to drag them, veterans help SM every fucking day, American legion,VFW, they all have been allianced with the military for a long time. They support my cause.
And yes veteran suicide is that simple, you get out, can't find a job, on the streets, here's my way out. Lack if understanding from the Civilian side feeling alone. My Grandfsther was one of them. So yeah I think I can speak for veterans after hearing some of the stories about when they got out.
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SPC Dasan Toney
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff you as well you also fall under UCMJ,do you think uts acceptable to call a soldier a narcissist?? I don't think it falls under the respect category either does it.
I've tried involving leadership twice, I stood in 1SG office saying I need help because we were waiting on them to assign her Specialists.
But yes we were both violating that so if you feel the need to push that up to my chain of command I'll give you my chain of commands info and I'll just show them the whole conversation between us.
I've tried involving leadership twice, I stood in 1SG office saying I need help because we were waiting on them to assign her Specialists.
But yes we were both violating that so if you feel the need to push that up to my chain of command I'll give you my chain of commands info and I'll just show them the whole conversation between us.
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SPC Dasan Toney
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff sure let's just agree to disagree. Have a good day. I know what I've been through and clearly I'm not being clear enough. So I'd you would kindly just drop it because I'm done arguing with an NCO. My first priority isn't my job, it's my family. Speak for yourself. If you're willing to risk it, go ahead. I am not.
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Sara Lucas
SPC Dasan Toney - please dont make a hasty decision that will affect your and your wifes life.... work with the available resources you have... there have been good suggestions on here.... you have a lot of stress in your life right now.... step back think clearly..... let resources help you resolve your issues....
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Everything I have seen here leads me to one conclusion: you are not a good candidate for retention. I think you should find a way to serve the remainder of your time and move on. It seems that you may be qualified for a hardship discharge. Until then, seek help from the Chaplain. You may be surprised at how much they can be of assistance.
This is a painful thing to say, but I know it is true because I have seen it time and again...the military is simply not a good fit for SMs with dependents who have special needs. The business of protecting our country should fall upon the shoulders of men and women who can train without distraction and deploy at a moments notice.
Although I am sympathetic to having someone you love with a health condition, your families needs are not in line with your current profession. Start preparing now for life outside of the military, where paid leave is almost non-existent.
Also, do you realize that you are being critical of your leadership in a very public forum? Hope your 1SG doesn't see this.....
This is a painful thing to say, but I know it is true because I have seen it time and again...the military is simply not a good fit for SMs with dependents who have special needs. The business of protecting our country should fall upon the shoulders of men and women who can train without distraction and deploy at a moments notice.
Although I am sympathetic to having someone you love with a health condition, your families needs are not in line with your current profession. Start preparing now for life outside of the military, where paid leave is almost non-existent.
Also, do you realize that you are being critical of your leadership in a very public forum? Hope your 1SG doesn't see this.....
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Lot to unpack there. First suggestion is don't go AWOL it will ruin your life for a long time. Second is teach your wife to drive or move on to base.
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SPC Dasan Toney
SFC Kurt Brunken I don't know why people say that, it's an all volunteer force. If I feel that it is not working out and they fail to recognize I don't want any part of it. AWOL, I've never had an AWOL but the reason I mentioned the Awol soldier is because he had an emergency too, an guess what he wasn't granted emergency leave. So yeah it's kind of concerning to me how an organization claimed to ve so good can be so bad at managing soldiers with families. If that's the route then that's the route. I don't care what a stupid piece of paper says about me.
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SPC Dasan Toney
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff if we don't want to he a part of a shitty organization with bad time management skills so be it. It can boggle your mind all it wants, it won't effect me much. As far as the AWOL thing, no it won't. I'm not dumb,I know how to disappear from the militsry without them tracking me, CID, yeah right. How again does it screw over my family? We can head home and get her the help the military couldn't. Don't act like you know the situation just because it says it on a piece of paper. People who've been in and had their needs served often tend to belive that the service provides all, it doesn't.
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SPC Dasan Toney
The only thing AWOL can do is bring me back, demote me, take half Pay,but honestly I'd rather just wait for the shitshow to unravel so I can say I told you so
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Many probably want to avoid responding to situations like this, because honestly, it needs to be worked out through your chain and resources available to you.
That said, here's what I'm interested in when meeting a Jr soldier new to my unit. Keep in mind, I am USAR so our conflicts are different.
1) Does the soldier go to work or school?
2) Do they have a mode of transportation to battle assemblies?
Those two things are the biggest individual soldier performance issues.
Basically, what I am going after is the soldier will show up and follow through on his commitment to the USAR.
You are a human component of a larger military system, and such systems are designed to work best when all parts are executing their tasks as designed. Generally speaking your Commander is tasked ensuring the whole unit can execute it's mission requirements, and your 1SG is tasked with ensuring the human components are there and working as designed.
In life and many things there are conflicts. Military or not. The military actually has a lot more resources available to its employees for family issues.
Many civilian employers would expect you to jump all the same, evaluate your worth to them based on your productivity that can be measured in revenue/cost ratios, and simply tell you to solve your transportation issues with Uber on your own dime. You are given X dollars for your services and absolutely everything else in life is for your to figure out and work out your own conflicts.
The main difference is you are beholden to the military (your employer) and are locked in for a specific period of time that is your least complicated exit path.
I completely agree. There are many conflicts in the military where the action or activity is inconsequential but failing to meet the expected suspense time or standard has disproportionate consequences. It’s just how the system works, and it’s on each of us with our individual motivations to figure out the best way to navigate through that.
For you right now, the best path is to figure out how you can keep all your balls in the air until you reach future decision point in your career where you can ETS, reclass, or re-enlist. You can’t have everything you want along the time line until you get there. You’ll have to decide what compromises you can make to keep everyone happen regarding civilian verses military conflicts.
It’s taken myself 10 years in the USAR to be able to position myself in a way I can reduce conflicts, and when I was young, as I suspect most of us here didn’t have that latitude either.
My rank doesn’t make that so. My ability to be more in tune with what is going on around me, organizational operating requirements and how to navigate and jump through different administrative hoops to get where I want are the reason for that. E6’s and below can be just as successful doing that as well, and rank doesn’t give more options either. Youth and Jr status actually give you more paths.
In summary, it sucks being young when more things are out of your control that are coming at you. As you get older the amount of things thrown at you don’t decrease, you just keep your eyes on the horizon more and are able to dodge them better.
That said, here's what I'm interested in when meeting a Jr soldier new to my unit. Keep in mind, I am USAR so our conflicts are different.
1) Does the soldier go to work or school?
2) Do they have a mode of transportation to battle assemblies?
Those two things are the biggest individual soldier performance issues.
Basically, what I am going after is the soldier will show up and follow through on his commitment to the USAR.
You are a human component of a larger military system, and such systems are designed to work best when all parts are executing their tasks as designed. Generally speaking your Commander is tasked ensuring the whole unit can execute it's mission requirements, and your 1SG is tasked with ensuring the human components are there and working as designed.
In life and many things there are conflicts. Military or not. The military actually has a lot more resources available to its employees for family issues.
Many civilian employers would expect you to jump all the same, evaluate your worth to them based on your productivity that can be measured in revenue/cost ratios, and simply tell you to solve your transportation issues with Uber on your own dime. You are given X dollars for your services and absolutely everything else in life is for your to figure out and work out your own conflicts.
The main difference is you are beholden to the military (your employer) and are locked in for a specific period of time that is your least complicated exit path.
I completely agree. There are many conflicts in the military where the action or activity is inconsequential but failing to meet the expected suspense time or standard has disproportionate consequences. It’s just how the system works, and it’s on each of us with our individual motivations to figure out the best way to navigate through that.
For you right now, the best path is to figure out how you can keep all your balls in the air until you reach future decision point in your career where you can ETS, reclass, or re-enlist. You can’t have everything you want along the time line until you get there. You’ll have to decide what compromises you can make to keep everyone happen regarding civilian verses military conflicts.
It’s taken myself 10 years in the USAR to be able to position myself in a way I can reduce conflicts, and when I was young, as I suspect most of us here didn’t have that latitude either.
My rank doesn’t make that so. My ability to be more in tune with what is going on around me, organizational operating requirements and how to navigate and jump through different administrative hoops to get where I want are the reason for that. E6’s and below can be just as successful doing that as well, and rank doesn’t give more options either. Youth and Jr status actually give you more paths.
In summary, it sucks being young when more things are out of your control that are coming at you. As you get older the amount of things thrown at you don’t decrease, you just keep your eyes on the horizon more and are able to dodge them better.
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