Posted on Oct 28, 2021
SPC Human Intelligence Collector
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I have no negative marks on my record and have been in the army for over two years.
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Responses: 239
SGT Judy Swift Johnson
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Well, all I can tell you is this. I was in Saudi Arabia for Desert Shield & Desert Storm from Oct 90 to July 91. I was in a MedEvac hospital unit. About 6 weeks after arriving in country, we were all ordered to line up at a specific tent and get an injection. We asked what it was and no one would tell us. All that was told was if we refused, it would be an Article 15 and a plane ride back to civilian life. To this day no one has ever told us what it was. We were in a war zone with SCUD missles being blown apart overhead daily by the local Patriot battery. I guess what I'm saying is, when you raise your right hand, you become property of the US government and they pretty much have the right to call the shots (no pun intended). Suck it up and carry on.
When scarlet fever, typhus, smallpox and other communicable diseases popped up in the early 1900's and people were sick and dying everywhere, do you think they woukd have been more concerned then about side effects or dying? Never seemed to be an issue in whole populations getting the vaccine and curing all by herd immunity then.
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TSgt 100% Va Disabled
TSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
MSG Harvey Kane - Like your comments about abortion and aborted, concerning tissues for medical uses?
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SFC Tracy Donahoo
SFC Tracy Donahoo
>1 y
The shots you describe were for exposures that were probably considered very lethal.

COVID doesn't qualify as very lethal, especially to young, healthy adults. People over 65 and those with comorbidities are the primary victims of covid. People under 50 typically do not normally even need medical treatment for covid.
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MSG Harvey Kane
MSG Harvey Kane
2 y
SFC if you want to kill your grandmother or if you have a relative that is compromised and want to kill that person then that is up to you! Have you heard the term social contract. It is one of the basis of our form of government and an underlying rule of modern society. Do look it up and perhaps you will change your mind.
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SGT Mike Ange
SGT Mike Ange
2 y
It was an issue then, it is believed to be a primary factor in making over 250,000 vets ill, 100,000 of them with debilitating illness. The Veteran Community took on fixing this BS and in 1996 a new law was passed which prohibited the use of experimental meds on soldiers and the issue was resolved. There is a discussion of this legislation on this thread. I was happily involved in working on the hill to get that legislation passed and in 2004 it stopped the use of vaccines on troops (Doe v Rumsfeld). DoD said the Biden could issue a waiver this time around but no waiver came because DoJ advised only Congress had the ability to waive that particular law.
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SPC Member
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While those in my field have expressed concerns about undue command influence regarding mandated punishments, I can say most of us have argued in our debates with each other that Soldiers should be discharged with an Honorable characterization of service if this is the only issue in their career or if nothing else but this would cause anything less than Honorable for them if COVID had never happened.

Our sentiments are meaningless though, it's likely that many will face General (Under Honorable Conditions). That said, that's not what you have to accept, you can respond to any administrative separation, Trial Defense Services can walk you through it but every Soldier gets to respond and Soldiers meeting certain requirements are entitled to a separation board.

If you end up being noticed for an Administrative Separation, immediately contact Trial Defense Services (TDS) and begin working on your response as to why you should receive an Honorable characterization of service upon separation, to include character statements from Soldiers who know you. More rank the better.
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SSG Intelligence Analyst
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
Undue command influenced punishments? How can that occur if there’s a DOD mandate covering this
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SPC Member
SPC (Join to see)
>1 y
SSG (Join to see) - A debate between attorney's, and not the first I've heard of. The gist of it was that there were initial concerns regarding mandated punishment or a mandated characterization of service rather than on a case by case basis. In the end though, none of it has happened yet so it's all conjecture.
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CMSgt Donald ONeill
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As a older military person that has had shots with the air gun and still here to talk about it . First, we must remember the vaccine was still experimental when it was told all in the military will receive it . Second we do not know the long term affect and if I was a young female planning to have children I wouldn't want to take the vaccine . And third as someone who is suffering from agent orange exposure the military isn't always right . Those who refuse the shot should get a honorable discharge .
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SGT Al Dec
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It should be a Dumb Ass discharge. Yes, I know I’m not politically correct but I’m an old combat vet so suck it up buttercup.
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CPL Bruce Ailiff
CPL Bruce Ailiff
>1 y
A CPL only because I was disabled and discharged. I guarantee I have made a lot more money in the civilian world than I ever would having been a GI. LMAO SFC!!!!
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PO3 Michael Wiedenhoeft-Wilder
PO3 Michael Wiedenhoeft-Wilder
>1 y
I feel the same way. He needs to grow up and realize he’s in the military.
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PO3 Michael Wiedenhoeft-Wilder
PO3 Michael Wiedenhoeft-Wilder
>1 y
CPL Bruce Ailiff the military is better off without your 4tb son.
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SGT Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
SGT (Join to see)
2 y
Because he is a CPL does that make his opinion any less important than yours? How about some respect for a fellow soldier even though he disagrees with you. Not a good look for an NCO SFC (Join to see)
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1SG Signal Support Systems Specialist
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10
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Hopefully its quick.
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SFC Tracy Scott
SFC Tracy Scott
>1 y
1sg, you are consider to be the father of your company, one would hope that you mentor, and counsel these soldiers in an open day room forum, to help address their concerns and questions.
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1SG Signal Support Systems Specialist
1SG (Join to see)
>1 y
SFC Tracy Scott - I have been retired for almost 2 years. I assure you during the almost 5 years I spent as a 1SG, there was plenty of mentor-ship and counseling.
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SFC Intelligence Analyst
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
CPL Terry Mason - Why do you guys keep censoring yourselves all the time? Just say "fuck Joe Biden." The "Brandon" stuff is just laughable and quite sad actually.
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SFC Instructor
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
Please don't bother someone who did not stay long in the service because his feelings were hurt lmao...
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SrA Scott Baer
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C61e4b57
I've seen extremely disappointing comments here with some showing extreme ignorance...Partially get it as the media has done a full court press and censor anything at all that proves otherwise... This clip is a poor proof admittedly but this coincides with Bill Gates Depopulation Agenda.. Rather than attack it, how about keep an open mind as an intelligent American or stay on your leash..Research research research...
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SPC Jeremy A
SPC Jeremy A
>1 y
It's never hard to find the soldiers who will fail to see an ethical dilemma as long as they can say "I was just following orders".
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PFC Edgar Mosier
PFC Edgar Mosier
2 y
SPC Jeremy A - Sadly, few are those that understand the actual consequences of refusing an order, lawful or not.
Ever hear of a LT. William Laws Calley Jr.? My Uncle was in-country, when this went down. Commanders would be given assignments, dole the task(s) to subordinates, take the glory for success or lay the blame for a failure.
Imagine LtC Moore saying, "No, I won't risk my command so foolishly."
Two men tasked, two different acts, but who saved their men best?
No, I'm not faulting either: I don't blame the CSA Veterans for defending what they saw as their duties and I'm not in favor of someone "Demoting" any awarded person, because the demoter refused to "walk a mile in their combat boots".
I had a Sgt of Euro RPC get away with interfering with the US Mail (claiming he was just "following orders"), while I was charged with disobeying a lawful order from him. I did disobey his confusing command of, "Pvt Mosier, come here." He had two private Mosiers in earshot and refused to distinguish which he meant. I have worn my stigma, been congratulated by those in the direct "know" of the circumstances and me.
I know that for that, God will judge BOTH of our action, as well as anyone else that claims, "I was just following orders."

God Bless Lt. Calley. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JoacW7woBY
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SFC Intelligence Analyst
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This question has been asked multiple times on here.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/09/15/what-happens-soldiers-who-refuse-covid-vaccine.html

"Soldiers who refuse could face "administrative or non-judicial punishment [under the Uniform Code of Military Justice] -- to include relief of duties or discharge," according to the new Army guidelines obtained by Military.com.

Administrative action includes initiating what is called a General Officer Memorandum of Reprimand, or GOMOR, for all refusals without an allowed exemption. The reprimand is widely seen as a military career killer but can, under certain circumstances, be tossed from a soldier's record.

All judicial action will be launched by colonels in a soldier's chain of command, or a general in units without a colonel.

Soldiers who have pending decisions on medical or religious exemptions will not face any adverse action.

As a first step in the process, soldiers who refuse will be formally counseled, effectively creating a paper trail for leaders to show they discussed a topic with a soldier. The Army already has issued a template for units. "

Also read AR 600-20 - which highlights the process for any refusal to get any approved vaccine.

Also this should have been put out by your leadership in the past month and a half almost. Anyone who does get discharged is probably getting an other than honorable. You still get some VA benefits. I think you lose the 9/11 GI Bill if you get a OTH.

Here's a question: Have you had any reservations or hesitancy about ANY other vaccine since basic to now?
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CAPT Kevin B.
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9
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People forget that the military is a business and makes business decisions. When any company has to dump a number of people quick for a reason, it looks for the easy way out. Expect general discharges. Since a lawful order wasn't followed, the characterization will be what fits the book. The circumstances, your performance, other problems, your attitude, etc. will go into the decision mix. In the background will be pressure to alleviate the monetary hit to VA by minimizing the money trail afterwards. If SECDEF doesn't make an exact prescribed outcome, it will be left up to those who will likely be all over the map. I don't follow it, but I remember a mix following the Anthrax vaccine and even some of the Japanese Encephalitis stuff. At the time neither was FDA approved. People were undeployable, hence not worth keeping around. It's just business.
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Capt Gregory Prickett
Capt Gregory Prickett
>1 y
SGT(P) Bruce Cram - No, they haven't.
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MSG Harvey Kane
MSG Harvey Kane
>1 y
In the military it is not just business it is readiness!
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CAPT Kevin B.
CAPT Kevin B.
>1 y
CPL Terry Mason - Google the Navy list son. Funny story. We had a Navy Public Works Dept at El Toro Marine Air Station. I was a LT (O-3) duty officer when there was a power outage that involved about 100 ENL units and maybe a dozen OFF units. The fix for each leg would take several hours, so I directed the crew to hit the 100 unit side first. A Marine Maj. was looking through his binoculars seeing work going on over there and rang up the duty phone. He demanded that I redirect the work. No. Who's your boss? Captain (O-6) Schumate. Click. Following Monday I got the rest of the story. The Maj. rang up the CAPT and was yelling at him to get it right and take disciplinary action against me. The CAPT didn't say a word but started whistling Anchors Aweigh into the phone. The phone went silent and eventually clicked. The Maj. was in Alphas personally apologizing to the CAPT Monday. He was directed to do the same for me. Now imagine the expression of another Major I shared an office with seeing a peer in Alphas groveling at my desk. I filled him in after I swept his jaw off the deck.
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PFC Automated Logistical Specialist
9
9
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Either and honorable or a general with honorable conditions. It will be up to your command. If your national guard I believe. Active duty will have to follow whatever regulation is out forth. I however can't imagine anything less than a general.
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PO1 Aaron Grollman
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8
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None at all! This vaccine is not needed, as shown by the Omicron variant which only seems to infect fully vaccinated people. I am a federal employee and will be fighting this mandate until the end.
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