Posted on Oct 28, 2021
What type of discharge should I expect for refusing the covid vaccine?
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I have no negative marks on my record and have been in the army for over two years.
Discharge
Coronavirus COVID19
ETS/EAS
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 233
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While those in my field have expressed concerns about undue command influence regarding mandated punishments, I can say most of us have argued in our debates with each other that Soldiers should be discharged with an Honorable characterization of service if this is the only issue in their career or if nothing else but this would cause anything less than Honorable for them if COVID had never happened.
Our sentiments are meaningless though, it's likely that many will face General (Under Honorable Conditions). That said, that's not what you have to accept, you can respond to any administrative separation, Trial Defense Services can walk you through it but every Soldier gets to respond and Soldiers meeting certain requirements are entitled to a separation board.
If you end up being noticed for an Administrative Separation, immediately contact Trial Defense Services (TDS) and begin working on your response as to why you should receive an Honorable characterization of service upon separation, to include character statements from Soldiers who know you. More rank the better.
Our sentiments are meaningless though, it's likely that many will face General (Under Honorable Conditions). That said, that's not what you have to accept, you can respond to any administrative separation, Trial Defense Services can walk you through it but every Soldier gets to respond and Soldiers meeting certain requirements are entitled to a separation board.
If you end up being noticed for an Administrative Separation, immediately contact Trial Defense Services (TDS) and begin working on your response as to why you should receive an Honorable characterization of service upon separation, to include character statements from Soldiers who know you. More rank the better.
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SSG (Join to see)
Undue command influenced punishments? How can that occur if there’s a DOD mandate covering this
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SPC (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - A debate between attorney's, and not the first I've heard of. The gist of it was that there were initial concerns regarding mandated punishment or a mandated characterization of service rather than on a case by case basis. In the end though, none of it has happened yet so it's all conjecture.
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As a older military person that has had shots with the air gun and still here to talk about it . First, we must remember the vaccine was still experimental when it was told all in the military will receive it . Second we do not know the long term affect and if I was a young female planning to have children I wouldn't want to take the vaccine . And third as someone who is suffering from agent orange exposure the military isn't always right . Those who refuse the shot should get a honorable discharge .
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It should be a Dumb Ass discharge. Yes, I know I’m not politically correct but I’m an old combat vet so suck it up buttercup.
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CPL Bruce Ailiff
A CPL only because I was disabled and discharged. I guarantee I have made a lot more money in the civilian world than I ever would having been a GI. LMAO SFC!!!!
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PO3 Michael Wiedenhoeft-Wilder
I feel the same way. He needs to grow up and realize he’s in the military.
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SGT (Join to see)
Because he is a CPL does that make his opinion any less important than yours? How about some respect for a fellow soldier even though he disagrees with you. Not a good look for an NCO SFC (Join to see)
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I've seen extremely disappointing comments here with some showing extreme ignorance...Partially get it as the media has done a full court press and censor anything at all that proves otherwise... This clip is a poor proof admittedly but this coincides with Bill Gates Depopulation Agenda.. Rather than attack it, how about keep an open mind as an intelligent American or stay on your leash..Research research research...
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PFC Edgar Mosier
C Company feat. Terry Nelson - Battle Hymn of Lt. Calley
William Calley songs: https://rateyourmusic.com/list/JBrummer/vietnam_war__my_lai_and_lt__william_calley_songs/The track "Battle Hymn of Lt. Calley" (Plantat...
SPC Jeremy A - Sadly, few are those that understand the actual consequences of refusing an order, lawful or not.
Ever hear of a LT. William Laws Calley Jr.? My Uncle was in-country, when this went down. Commanders would be given assignments, dole the task(s) to subordinates, take the glory for success or lay the blame for a failure.
Imagine LtC Moore saying, "No, I won't risk my command so foolishly."
Two men tasked, two different acts, but who saved their men best?
No, I'm not faulting either: I don't blame the CSA Veterans for defending what they saw as their duties and I'm not in favor of someone "Demoting" any awarded person, because the demoter refused to "walk a mile in their combat boots".
I had a Sgt of Euro RPC get away with interfering with the US Mail (claiming he was just "following orders"), while I was charged with disobeying a lawful order from him. I did disobey his confusing command of, "Pvt Mosier, come here." He had two private Mosiers in earshot and refused to distinguish which he meant. I have worn my stigma, been congratulated by those in the direct "know" of the circumstances and me.
I know that for that, God will judge BOTH of our action, as well as anyone else that claims, "I was just following orders."
God Bless Lt. Calley. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JoacW7woBY
Ever hear of a LT. William Laws Calley Jr.? My Uncle was in-country, when this went down. Commanders would be given assignments, dole the task(s) to subordinates, take the glory for success or lay the blame for a failure.
Imagine LtC Moore saying, "No, I won't risk my command so foolishly."
Two men tasked, two different acts, but who saved their men best?
No, I'm not faulting either: I don't blame the CSA Veterans for defending what they saw as their duties and I'm not in favor of someone "Demoting" any awarded person, because the demoter refused to "walk a mile in their combat boots".
I had a Sgt of Euro RPC get away with interfering with the US Mail (claiming he was just "following orders"), while I was charged with disobeying a lawful order from him. I did disobey his confusing command of, "Pvt Mosier, come here." He had two private Mosiers in earshot and refused to distinguish which he meant. I have worn my stigma, been congratulated by those in the direct "know" of the circumstances and me.
I know that for that, God will judge BOTH of our action, as well as anyone else that claims, "I was just following orders."
God Bless Lt. Calley. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JoacW7woBY
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People forget that the military is a business and makes business decisions. When any company has to dump a number of people quick for a reason, it looks for the easy way out. Expect general discharges. Since a lawful order wasn't followed, the characterization will be what fits the book. The circumstances, your performance, other problems, your attitude, etc. will go into the decision mix. In the background will be pressure to alleviate the monetary hit to VA by minimizing the money trail afterwards. If SECDEF doesn't make an exact prescribed outcome, it will be left up to those who will likely be all over the map. I don't follow it, but I remember a mix following the Anthrax vaccine and even some of the Japanese Encephalitis stuff. At the time neither was FDA approved. People were undeployable, hence not worth keeping around. It's just business.
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CAPT Kevin B.
CPL Terry Mason - Google the Navy list son. Funny story. We had a Navy Public Works Dept at El Toro Marine Air Station. I was a LT (O-3) duty officer when there was a power outage that involved about 100 ENL units and maybe a dozen OFF units. The fix for each leg would take several hours, so I directed the crew to hit the 100 unit side first. A Marine Maj. was looking through his binoculars seeing work going on over there and rang up the duty phone. He demanded that I redirect the work. No. Who's your boss? Captain (O-6) Schumate. Click. Following Monday I got the rest of the story. The Maj. rang up the CAPT and was yelling at him to get it right and take disciplinary action against me. The CAPT didn't say a word but started whistling Anchors Aweigh into the phone. The phone went silent and eventually clicked. The Maj. was in Alphas personally apologizing to the CAPT Monday. He was directed to do the same for me. Now imagine the expression of another Major I shared an office with seeing a peer in Alphas groveling at my desk. I filled him in after I swept his jaw off the deck.
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Either and honorable or a general with honorable conditions. It will be up to your command. If your national guard I believe. Active duty will have to follow whatever regulation is out forth. I however can't imagine anything less than a general.
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None at all! This vaccine is not needed, as shown by the Omicron variant which only seems to infect fully vaccinated people. I am a federal employee and will be fighting this mandate until the end.
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I'd ask, "Have you gotten a profile for the influenza or simular immunization?"
When I was Active Duty, I received such.
Now, I cannot have the VA give me a pneumonia vaccine, a shingles vaccine, nor a covid vaccine.
They cannot take the risk.
Worse, no one knows how any possible pill-based anti-viral may be for folk like me.
But, Brother, stand your ground; in 1979, there was no Combat (nor Fatigue) nor PTSD, so, when I lost a baby and a little brother... It was Chapter 13 territory.
With my "Under Honorable Conditions" DD-214, it's taken a Senator and 42 years to receive any benefit compensation.
This, we will defend!
And, yes, I am a Peacetime Veteran, a Cold War Veteran, and my Oath Of Enlistment still hasn't ended.
When I was Active Duty, I received such.
Now, I cannot have the VA give me a pneumonia vaccine, a shingles vaccine, nor a covid vaccine.
They cannot take the risk.
Worse, no one knows how any possible pill-based anti-viral may be for folk like me.
But, Brother, stand your ground; in 1979, there was no Combat (nor Fatigue) nor PTSD, so, when I lost a baby and a little brother... It was Chapter 13 territory.
With my "Under Honorable Conditions" DD-214, it's taken a Senator and 42 years to receive any benefit compensation.
This, we will defend!
And, yes, I am a Peacetime Veteran, a Cold War Veteran, and my Oath Of Enlistment still hasn't ended.
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SrA Scott Baer
Struggling to come up with any words that could make any difference for the hell you suffered Edgar but do hope you found a way to cope..Same with Peacetime vet, Cold War and very much ditto on OE never ending.. My battle with the VA carries (pales in comparison to your own) on which was beginning to pick up steam under Trump but no chance in hell do I believe I'll get help under this corrupted regime..Take damn good care...
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PFC Edgar Mosier
SrA Scott Baer - My Friend and Battle-Mate As "Peacetime Veterans, we may never have physically fought even a skirmish, but I would challenge any battle-harden <and, often more respected> Veteran to claim that we never prepared, stood at the ready, or that we didn't stand our ground, each declaring, as our separate, but allied Branches and Commands first stated via their mottos, "This We Will Defend."
I respect any woman or man that would offer up their health, life, family, dreams, for people that they have never met.
Now, let me share with you a secret that Mom, a warrior that as a single woman raised five youngsters to adulthood, showed me: Sometimes, it's not the power you have, but rather the power that you attempt to bring to the fray.
It took me 42 years to get some relief from the VA, but I was armed with the facts, knew where they could be dug up and presented to others, and how to ask my Senator to question the VA.
I am glad that we have strong Senators in Florida and "YES", if Ol' Forty-Five does actually toss his hat in the ring, again, then again I'll try to welcome back a Champion Commandeering Chief that doesn't feel he needs to educate his Troops, Cadets, and Officers, as if he believes they are too dense to know his Rank and Title.
God Bless Your VA Endeavors, and may He have St. Michael open that front for you.
I respect any woman or man that would offer up their health, life, family, dreams, for people that they have never met.
Now, let me share with you a secret that Mom, a warrior that as a single woman raised five youngsters to adulthood, showed me: Sometimes, it's not the power you have, but rather the power that you attempt to bring to the fray.
It took me 42 years to get some relief from the VA, but I was armed with the facts, knew where they could be dug up and presented to others, and how to ask my Senator to question the VA.
I am glad that we have strong Senators in Florida and "YES", if Ol' Forty-Five does actually toss his hat in the ring, again, then again I'll try to welcome back a Champion Commandeering Chief that doesn't feel he needs to educate his Troops, Cadets, and Officers, as if he believes they are too dense to know his Rank and Title.
God Bless Your VA Endeavors, and may He have St. Michael open that front for you.
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Lol two tears in a bucket…. F@?k it. If 6 shoots of anthrax didn’t kill me stop being a p@$$y and fallow orders. There is a reason you raised your right hand, and there is a reason you raise it every time you get promoted. Just FYI from a Crusty of Marine Corps Gunny.
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SPC Jeremy A
MSG Harvey Kane - See that's a nice try on the Nebraska Medicine article. However my assertion is that Covid Viral Spike Proteins DO NOT AND HAVE NOT EVER existed in a person who has not been exposed to the virus or vaccine. That's why I refer to them as 'foreign' proteins. Your article talks about spike protein excretion AFTER vaccination.
Would you like to know a vaccine that I can 100%, unequivocally, PROMISE you that I can stand behind and would take your side with the vaccine mandate argument on? It's also at the same Nebraska Medicine Omaha page. Look up Novavax on that page. It statisfies EVERY scientific, moral and ethical qualm I have with Covid Vaccinations but for SOME reason they can't get out of clinical trials 2 years into Covid when it only took the new technology 9 months AND it's approved in the EU... curious...
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/moths-and-tree-bark-how-the-novavax-vaccine-works
Would you like to know a vaccine that I can 100%, unequivocally, PROMISE you that I can stand behind and would take your side with the vaccine mandate argument on? It's also at the same Nebraska Medicine Omaha page. Look up Novavax on that page. It statisfies EVERY scientific, moral and ethical qualm I have with Covid Vaccinations but for SOME reason they can't get out of clinical trials 2 years into Covid when it only took the new technology 9 months AND it's approved in the EU... curious...
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/moths-and-tree-bark-how-the-novavax-vaccine-works
Moths and tree bark: How the Novavax vaccine works
Novavax has created a fourth COVID-19 vaccine using moth cells and tree bark. In this article, find out how the Novavax vaccine is different from other COVID-19 vaccines.
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MSG Harvey Kane
Your questioning seems to revolve around long term studies. Do you think there were long term studies for smallpox in 1780s? Or for that matter the polio vaccine? There were not but a sample of some 1.8 million were given the vaccine. We have given the three flavors of the covid vac to some 100 million. Of course you know that aspirin was never tested!!! In short as my old sgt used to say: when you're up to you ass in alligators it is hard to remember that your job was to drain the swamp!
I think using the term fast track muddies the waters. The drug that was really fast tracked was penicillin because it was needed to treat wounded soldiers. What bothers me is the high amount of misinformation regarding the covid vacs. The doubt cast because it uses a new technology is ridiculous. You are using medical technology today that never existed in Vietnam. We had x rays then but can you imagine telling someone that their molecules were going to be magnetized and rearranged so the one can see inside the body!! Longitudinal studies regarding drugs are carried out after the drug is introduced into the general population. Pharmacogenetics is to a degree lessening the malicious impact of a new drug but not ending it.
I don't know what you do in the Army, but if someone said to you I am going to put you in an airplane throw you out the door but have no fear there is a pack on your back inside of which is a silk cloth which will deploy when you pull this string and you will float to the ground you would say no not me let that guy over there do it!
In short, the new vacs produced in the west are safe and are both saving peoples lives and if after taken one gets covid makes chances of survival high and diminishes the effect of the disease on the body.
I enjoyed this conversation.
I think using the term fast track muddies the waters. The drug that was really fast tracked was penicillin because it was needed to treat wounded soldiers. What bothers me is the high amount of misinformation regarding the covid vacs. The doubt cast because it uses a new technology is ridiculous. You are using medical technology today that never existed in Vietnam. We had x rays then but can you imagine telling someone that their molecules were going to be magnetized and rearranged so the one can see inside the body!! Longitudinal studies regarding drugs are carried out after the drug is introduced into the general population. Pharmacogenetics is to a degree lessening the malicious impact of a new drug but not ending it.
I don't know what you do in the Army, but if someone said to you I am going to put you in an airplane throw you out the door but have no fear there is a pack on your back inside of which is a silk cloth which will deploy when you pull this string and you will float to the ground you would say no not me let that guy over there do it!
In short, the new vacs produced in the west are safe and are both saving peoples lives and if after taken one gets covid makes chances of survival high and diminishes the effect of the disease on the body.
I enjoyed this conversation.
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MSG Harvey Kane
SPC Jeremy A - Phase three finished in Jun of 2021 I think the delay on other vacs took about 6 months after clinical.
https://www.beckmancoulter.com/en/clinical-studies-and-trends?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0J6OgvD19AIVwbeGCh222QGKEAAYASAAEgJ
https://www.beckmancoulter.com/en/clinical-studies-and-trends?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0J6OgvD19AIVwbeGCh222QGKEAAYASAAEgJ
Learn about the clinical utility for serology testing with key clinical studies and trends emerging around the world in the COVID-19 pandemic.
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SPC Jeremy A
MSG Harvey Kane - Most stories I read say it was approved in EU VERY recently (within a week). I haven't kept up with at much as I should, full disclosure. I'm excited for it to come out and to have an option that I can stand behind in every aspect.
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I understand your problem. I think it’s a crappy problem at that. Let’s not forget that this isn’t really a vaccine and the changed the definition for it to fit. Remember how long it was called the “flu SHOT”. Vaccines prevent you from getting. This joke of jab doesn’t prevent anything. I hate this decision you have to make under tyrannical circumstances. Good luck and it will only hurt you if you try to work at Starbucks or some super liberal company. Most people and companies that have people who actually work will not mind your decision at all and some will even respect it. Anyone that says you’re stupid for doing it is clown shoes and you shouldn’t listen to them. Funny how you weren’t even allowed to refuse the others but this one you can.
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