12
12
0
The public makes opinions on how they viewed the war we're in.The last war that was seen in a good light was Desert Storm.We all know the bad blood with Nam and the love of WW I, II and the forgotten war in Korea. What are we as SM's leaving behind as each one of us move on into the later stages of life. What are we giving the new Soldiers we didn't get before? How will we be remembered?
Warfare
Peace
Legacy
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 12
6
6
0
SSG Swann, the most difficult thing for me to understand is that our war isn't over. As much as our civilian leaders want it to be, Afghanistan, Iraq and other places with Islamist extremists are still pulling American blood and treasure.
My kids are young, so they don't understand what I did/will do. That's good for me because it gives me a few years to frame an answer when they do ask.
I do believe what we did ("boots on the ground" people) was justified and good. Just not clear what policy we supported and if we got to our leaders' endstates.
My kids are young, so they don't understand what I did/will do. That's good for me because it gives me a few years to frame an answer when they do ask.
I do believe what we did ("boots on the ground" people) was justified and good. Just not clear what policy we supported and if we got to our leaders' endstates.
(6)
(0)
SSG Warren Swan
SSG John Thornton - that would be ideal, EXCEPT there is big money over there, and that money trumps any of us. I feel and will always feel that going into the Stan was the right thing to do. I'll never understand why we went into Iraq. Sketchy intel should've caused pause, but it caused action....the wrong action.
(1)
(0)
SPC Matthew Morris
SSG Warren Swan I think our actions were justified in the 'Stan, but I think there could have been more efficient ways of going about capturing OBL and hamstringing AQ than stomping in with 125k troops. Also, there is huge money in the Mid East. I didn't realize until just a couple months ago that we don't have to get oil to make money off it: conflict in the Middle East drives prices up because of the danger inherent in transporting it. Crafty. That being said, we are not so stupid of a populace to be easily hoodwinked, there had to of been actual strategic goals to us entering Iraq, I think they just have not been revealed. Overall, we took a conventional approach to an unconventional problem, and we paid the price fiscally and with the blood of our countrymen as well as that of civilians caught in the crossfire.
(1)
(0)
SSG Warren Swan
Sir one day your kids are going to read about us in their history books just like I read about my father and Nam. Will those lessons to your children see us as protectors or invaders? Will we be seen in the same light as the Greatest Generation, or are we a bunch of "do nothings" who did a lot of bad deeds to some "good" people? I do not believe history will be kind to us. I believe too much has happened over the last 15 years and all the pro-military support that made WWI and II a resounding success, skipped every war since. Maybe Desert Storm would be the exception.
(2)
(0)
SPC Matthew Morris
SSG Warren Swan - Might be the crazy vet in me coming out, but I think the major difference is public involvement in the war effort. Think about it, in WWI and WWII, every citizen had to make sacrifices so that our GIs overseas could have their basic needs met *sometimes*, and many of our young men were sent to go fight. Since then, we have just been another program on the television. We literally compete for public attention with the likes of American Idol and Survivor. What's worse, with the lack of public involvement, I am sure getting called for the draft in 'Nam was more like being chosen as a tribute (Hunger Games reference) than being chosen to do your part. With the general public remaining uninvolved, I don't see vilification of the warfighter changing just for our conflict or generation. I mean seriously, they think that refusing orders that could harm civilians is an easy or common thing...completely detached from reality...
(1)
(0)
4
4
0
SSG Warren Swan
Sir you came home to a country that hated you. They disrespected you, tried to make you feel less than human, and wanted to strip you and your fellow Nam vets of your dignity. How long did it take for you all to get the just respect each and every one of you deserved by the county you supported? There is no way the time it took was acceptable, but I feel as though it's about to repeat itself again now. The war isn't "sexy", it's not "cool", we don't have the full support of America anymore, so would our legacy be a Nam pt2?
(1)
(0)
CPT Jack Durish
SSG Warren Swan - I fear that most never received the honor they deserved nor expect it. That is possibly the saddest thing I've ever said. So, yes, that may just be our legacy
(1)
(0)
SSG Warren Swan
CPT Jack Durish - This will be biased as hell, but I'm old enough to have had Nam vets as my early SQD LDR's and PSG's. Firm and fair. Great men all. But your generation were the ones we looked up to. You're reminded of heroics and mistakes from Nam, and how the country was upon your return. It's not going to mean shit to you or your brothers and sisters if I say thank you. I think these homecoming ceremonies that units are doing for y'all are the "thank you's" that you were robbed of. But looking at you and me as vets, I feel our legacy will be the exact same, and it won't be good.
(2)
(0)
CPT Jack Durish
SSG Warren Swan - If Vietnam Vets share anything, it is our burning desire that no vet ever again be treated as we were. Trust me, if ever you are abused for your service and a Vietnam Vet is anywhere near, we'll have your back
(0)
(0)
SSG Warren Swan My war was a long time ago. I went to Vietnam because I thought aiding South Vietnam was a just cause. Our government stopped the war. I still feel that it was a just cause and that I did the right thing. I live my life doing what is right. I mentor and try to help out where I can. I would hope that my personal legacy is one of living my life with integrity.
(3)
(0)
SSG Warren Swan
DAMN GOOD ANSWER!!! You can only get one like for this response. What we believe in our hearts, the deeds we did to complete a mission, and the toll it took on our hearts, don't know a time period. I feel the same as you, but history wasn't kind to you. I really believe you all got a raw deal from America at the time. I think now, more of America see's what was done, but I believe we're going to see a repeat, and the history books won't see us as defenders of freedom or any other catchy jingle that would make our sacrifices real. There will be footnotes of us (like Nam), and it'll be a taboo thing to talk about.
(1)
(0)
Sgt (Join to see)
SSG Warren Swan - I agree with you. I do not think the history books will be kind.
(0)
(0)
3
3
0
SSG Warren Swan
MSG, my old man is a Nam vet. When Bosnia kicked off, I deployed in support of it. One of the things my father did was to tell me don't go. You have nothing to prove. I was young, and very headstrong. He even tried to come back in the Army with the intent of taking my place. He was denied. 12 years later I'm doing my thing and I want to deploy to do my duty as a Soldier, and do my part in battle. I did my part, and it cost me everything but my life. I have NO regrets, and would do it again. I'd do it in a split second to keep another kid home. But if I had a son, I wonder what I'd tell him? I really do think that I'd do the exact same thing my father did me telling me you have nothing to prove. Do not go as I figure out what I need to give up to go in his place. Moving on 40 years from now, how are you, me, and everyone else going to be viewed as?
(0)
(0)
2
2
0
Pretty Cool Romantic Notion. More like I'm an Electronic Mischief Maker and the Navy let me do my thing.
(2)
(0)
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
SPC Matthew Morris - Thanks for the Flashback to Robin Williams in "Good Morning Vietnam" "Make sure you play it real loud, I'm in Artillery".
(2)
(0)
SSG Warren Swan
SPC Matthew Morris - 13 series? You weren't the actual gun bunny, you were the forward observer who called it in? PO1 William "Chip" Nagel, I've heard that every Sailor is a fireman. But the whole earth moving underneath me, isn't that sexy. Something about solid ground under my feet feels great! I don't know the proper term for it, but when I was a kid I was in Sea Cadets McCain ship Washington Navy Yard, and for "boot camp" they took us to PAX River NAS where we had to go through a room flooding? This was 82, so my actual terminology is off. But the room flooded with cold ass water and we had to use clamps, blocks, loads of crap to stop the water coming in. Not sure if ANYONE ever stops the water. It seemed once you fixed one (or five), there is another one. Yup the Army was the right choice for this kid.
(1)
(0)
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
SSG Warren Swan - Outstanding! You went thru a Damage Control Trainer. That is a very enlightening experience. I can see why you said, Nope not doing that twice. I was Damage Control Petty Officer (Collateral Duty) for my Division on Both the USS California CGN-36 and USS Arkansas CGN-41.
(0)
(0)
SPC Matthew Morris
SSG Warren Swan - Yup, 13D, literally Fire Direction Control, the guys the observers call when they want a mission, the guys who compute the fire mission and send it to the guns, and the guys who normally have brass stomping through their tent :-/
(1)
(0)
2
2
0
It's a couple years old but a pretty interesting article.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/03/29/a-legacy-of-pride-and-pain/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/03/29/a-legacy-of-pride-and-pain/
After the Wars: A legacy of pain and pride
2.6 million Americans fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is what life is like for the ones who came home.
(2)
(0)
SSG Warren Swan
"They have come back to a nation that has embraced them – warmly, strongly, positively — and put tremendous value and appreciation into their service".....if having a pre fabbed ceremony that is more of a formality than a ceremony is what he would call it. I think the most honest thing from my tour was the Hug Lady at Dallas/Ft Worth. With her and those like her there, you could FEEL they were genuine compared to the dog and pony shows many see when they redeploy.
(1)
(0)
SGT Jonathon Caldwell
SSG Warren Swan - I always liked the handshakes from the Nam vets that wanted to make sure we got a welcome home. Those all for sure felt real and heartfelt.
(1)
(0)
SSG Warren Swan
SGT Jonathon Caldwell - I get into a LOT OF TROUBLE for saying this to civilians. I say that you do not understand MY PEOPLE. Now you should see the looks on their faces. They think I'm being racial, but I tell them that the military members are MY PEOPLE. They're the ones I feel safe with, the ones who understand me, and I understand them. I don't care about your branch, rate, MOS, rank; you're MY PEOPLE. That includes vets who came before me. When I was a PVT the Nam guys still in were freakin legends. Class A or Dress Blues inspections and you see that bottom row, you realize dude in front of you isn't a b*tch. He commands respect, and you want to give it. I don't see us having that reverence 40 years from now. I barely see it outside of our community now.
(1)
(0)
SGT Jonathon Caldwell
SSG Warren Swan - I agree, you have units ordering SM's to take off their combat patches because some IET private got their feelings hurt. That's the type of PC BS that is weakening our services. When I came in there were not many people with a patch on their right. But as you stated above, dude isn't a b*tch and commands and deserves respect. Let alone those are the ones you want to ask questions and learn from. I also feel the same "my people" sentiment as you. Sometimes so much it confuses my wife. But she knows that she will never truly understand.
(0)
(0)
2
2
0
It's hard to say. Were we the vengeance of an enraged nation (OEF), or the instrument of mass national distraction (OIF)? After we lost some soldiers on my final deployment (OND), a senior told us that we were there as a shield for the American people, so the enemy would attack us instead of American citizens back home. A good perspective, but a bit superficial considering the complexity and differences between the two fronts. I personally believe our purpose was to bring democratic change to the Middle-East; Iran is wedged right between Iraq and Afghanistan, and the Arab Spring occurred right before we pulled out of Iraq. Peace is good for more businesses than war; nobody wants to buy Starbucks or Big Macs when they are afraid to leave their homes. It just seems to fit together better in my head, especially when you consider our duty to protect and defend "American interests". Keep in mind, that is just my opinion. It is still too soon for us to know everything, and we may not ever be told.
(2)
(0)
1
1
0
I think that a generation is remembered in the light that reflects how it performed on the battlefield. So we will be remembered for OIF and OEF. Forgotten wars.
(1)
(0)
SSG Warren Swan
4/25 in the house!!!So would you say we're going to be remembered as a second Nam? A war that was unwinnable even though we could've "won" it?
(0)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
You can not beat an invisible army. Atleast playing by the ROE and conventions of today. If we were back in Roman times no problem.
(0)
(0)
1
1
0
Son, because it was my job to"! And then, "Both" of my Sons followed me into Service!
(1)
(0)
SSG Warren Swan
Good one SGM. I followed my father also, but there was no talk of war. ONLY after I experienced it, did we talk about it, and only once. We have a mutual respect now knowing what the other feels.
(0)
(0)
1
1
0
SSG Warren Swan
That is a concern of mine. The US Military as a whole is UNMATCHED by any in the world. That is arrogant and biased, but factual. The counter to that is the American populace has the attention span of a goldfish and the ability to remember about as long. We are going to go down in history as a Nam pt2. It's bad enough there is a Nam as it is, and how they were treated upon return.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google