Posted on Apr 27, 2016
What would you do if your CSM was ignoring uniform and grooming standards? (CSM Flournoy)
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So this CSM from the the 8th MP BDE seems to be out of regulations. From the comments she has been corrected but she claims she is being harassed. I don't even understand how she got to be a CSM at a BDE. What COL out there is letting this happen? In one of the photos she is wearing stilettos in uniform. WTF? What kind of example is this. The worst is from a Facebook user that said:
"This one!!!! Holy **** she was in charge of us in Afghanistan!! I could go on and on about this toxic leader!! Trying to maintain professionalism but this one.....when a CSM so jacked up like this, she was laughing her ass off during our rehearsal of my brothers ceremony after he was killed in Afghanistan, she f***ing yelled at me because I "took too long saying my goodbye " as I'm f***ing crying kneeling in front of it. This post will probably get me in trouble, and ruin the rest of my army career as well as my day and my army experience."
What would you do if you were there? What if you were on command?
What should the Army do about this?
(Thanks to Army MP WTF Moments and it's followers for the photos.)
**************UPDATE************************
The 8th Theater Sustainment Command CSM will be travelling to the 8th MP BDE to have some one on one time with this CSM. It is amazing as leaders will do when they are being called out. He should have done that a long time ago.
"This one!!!! Holy **** she was in charge of us in Afghanistan!! I could go on and on about this toxic leader!! Trying to maintain professionalism but this one.....when a CSM so jacked up like this, she was laughing her ass off during our rehearsal of my brothers ceremony after he was killed in Afghanistan, she f***ing yelled at me because I "took too long saying my goodbye " as I'm f***ing crying kneeling in front of it. This post will probably get me in trouble, and ruin the rest of my army career as well as my day and my army experience."
What would you do if you were there? What if you were on command?
What should the Army do about this?
(Thanks to Army MP WTF Moments and it's followers for the photos.)
**************UPDATE************************
The 8th Theater Sustainment Command CSM will be travelling to the 8th MP BDE to have some one on one time with this CSM. It is amazing as leaders will do when they are being called out. He should have done that a long time ago.
Posted in these groups: 
CSM
Grooming Standards
CSM Grooming Standards
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 903
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It appears by the photographs that the CSM's Hair bundle is beyond the limits described in the Army Regulation and it should be brought back in to the appropriate standards. However I am more concerned about the outrage over hair. It seems that soldiers and leaders are become more concerned about uniform regulations than fighting and winning wars?
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LTC Ray B. (Ret)
It is an O6 that has allowed their CDM to act in such a way to bring this negative attention to their unit of command.
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SFC David Pratt
I would agree COL: how many of your NCO's can accurately call for and adjust fire? Can you? If you are not combat arms, I would doubt that you can: even though it's a skill level 2 task. AR 670-1 is a punitive regulation that needs to be enforced. Lackadaisical officers and NCO's are why these problems exist. Glad I'm retired cause I would have nuked her.
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Sgt GoatDriver Ram
No sir, long hair is a major concern involving safety and rotating shafts and things. Simple as that, don't read more into it than what it is. 24" hair looks great on the beach but not drawn into, wrapped around a 24" fan blade.
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Reprimanding service members is both a prerogative and a duty of leaders and their peers. Posting stuff like is not appropriate, in my opinion. Let her chain of command handle it, if true.
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LTC Ray B. (Ret)
uh her chain is at fault for letting her conduct herself in a less than model CSM fashion. I believe her 1st line leader, the BDE CDR, is ok with her disregard for dress and appearance.
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I would ask myself how much do I like being an E4 and the follow up question of how would I like to stay one for as long as I'm at "insert battalion name." That would dictate my caring or lack thereof. In the field its one thing, but if I have to scrape a razor across my sensitive face every single morning before I get up at 5 am to miserably sing ding dong the witch is dead. rain, sun, or snowing sideways. I believe that the very highest ranking non commissioned officer who enforces the standard should as well.
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SPC (Join to see)
to add to that. I really think a leader should keep things in perspective. I watched a first sergeant eat a staff sergeant alive who had just come back looking like crap from being in a little 12 manned lookout post at the end of the world in Ramadi Iraq with no showers or facilities. His crime was trying to make chow before it closed and THEN go get his haircut. (he had about 15 mins to get in there.) Those poor guys looked like hell when we would resupply them. Then I have seen an E4 who is ate the hell up and tried to cut his own haircut (failing miserably) get laughed at in garrison and totally let go when the kid had all weekend to take care of it. IF you guys are in your 28th day in the field laying in the ditches you dug out behind Fort Bragg somewhere and your CSM looks like you do I see zero issues with it. If your CSM takes it upon themselves to redefine the standard when there is a strict one set in a garrison environment with every opportunity to fix it, then that is the lowest type of leader and they need to be subjected to some very uncomfortable meetings with their superiors.
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... and the Army wants to make them all G.I. Janes. Glad I served when the Army was still worth a $#!+.
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Taken from
https://www.8thtsc.army.mil/8thmp.html:
"CSM Flournoy has served in various leadership positions to include Team Leader, Squad Leader, Drill Sergeant, Platoon Sergeant, First Sergeant, as well as Battalion Operations S3 SGM. CSM Flournoy’s military education includes: all Noncommissioned Officer Education courses. She was the HONOR GRADUATE at BNCOC. CSM Flournoy was also in the TOP 20% OF HER CLASS for the First Sergeant Course. She was the DISTINGUISHED HONOR GRADUATE for Drill Sergeant School. In addition, she has attended the Battle Staff Course, Military Police Investigation Course, Airborne and Air Assault Courses. CSM Flournoy is a graduate of the United States Army Sergeants Major Academy class 55 where she graduated in the TOP 20% OF HER CLASS.
CSM Flournoy’s awards include the Bronze Star Medal, Meritorious Service Medal, Army Commendation Medal, Army Achievement Medal, Army Good Conduct Medal, National Defense Service Medal, Korean Defense Service Medal, NCO Professional Development Ribbon, Army Service Ribbon, Overseas Service Ribbon, Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal, Iraqi Campaign Medal, NATO Medal, Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, Drill Sergeant Identification Badge, a member of the SERGEANT AUDIE MURPHY CLUB and was awarded the Regimental Marechaussee (Bronze)."
All of this speaks to the testimonials of her attitude.
https://www.8thtsc.army.mil/8thmp.html:
"CSM Flournoy has served in various leadership positions to include Team Leader, Squad Leader, Drill Sergeant, Platoon Sergeant, First Sergeant, as well as Battalion Operations S3 SGM. CSM Flournoy’s military education includes: all Noncommissioned Officer Education courses. She was the HONOR GRADUATE at BNCOC. CSM Flournoy was also in the TOP 20% OF HER CLASS for the First Sergeant Course. She was the DISTINGUISHED HONOR GRADUATE for Drill Sergeant School. In addition, she has attended the Battle Staff Course, Military Police Investigation Course, Airborne and Air Assault Courses. CSM Flournoy is a graduate of the United States Army Sergeants Major Academy class 55 where she graduated in the TOP 20% OF HER CLASS.
CSM Flournoy’s awards include the Bronze Star Medal, Meritorious Service Medal, Army Commendation Medal, Army Achievement Medal, Army Good Conduct Medal, National Defense Service Medal, Korean Defense Service Medal, NCO Professional Development Ribbon, Army Service Ribbon, Overseas Service Ribbon, Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal, Iraqi Campaign Medal, NATO Medal, Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, Drill Sergeant Identification Badge, a member of the SERGEANT AUDIE MURPHY CLUB and was awarded the Regimental Marechaussee (Bronze)."
All of this speaks to the testimonials of her attitude.
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COL (Join to see)
Awards and decorations don't necessarily reflect character or circumstances. If that was the case Ft. Leavenworth would be empty.
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SSgt (Join to see)
I see it as examples of how on paper someone looks exemplary, yet on the ground it isn't so.
Also, as many have said, this didn't happen overnight. How fid she not only get threw all those schools, at the top of each even, knowing what we now know about her?
It's a testament to how broken our Army is.
Also, as many have said, this didn't happen overnight. How fid she not only get threw all those schools, at the top of each even, knowing what we now know about her?
It's a testament to how broken our Army is.
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Call her out off line (First time) and pointed out the female grooming standards and NCO Creed. I would have noted for records and followed up her CoC
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CPT Russell Pitre
Her CoC is a joke. There is no way they didn't notice this. Either they are weak, stupid, or afraid. Maybe a bit of all of them.
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If the leader ship isn't correcting her and you know you have a valid argument then you have to take it to IG. Posting it on Facebook all though warranted is not going to help.
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CPT Russell Pitre
Yeah but posting to FB and places like RP is going to bring attention to the situation when the Army had failed. She had gotten away with it already. Now it is time to show what has happened when the Army is too weak to take care of a situation.
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If she has been getting away with the type of behavior for a long time then shame on the Leadership for failing to fix the problem.
In my opinion the only ways I see her CoC protecting her is A) she was considered a person who got results or B) she made sure she had enough dirt on them that forced their hand to unilaterally support her
In my opinion the only ways I see her CoC protecting her is A) she was considered a person who got results or B) she made sure she had enough dirt on them that forced their hand to unilaterally support her
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listen i get the point of rally point when it points out good things but to always post things that make the military look shameful is not the point.. Its a disgrace and makes us all look bad!
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CPT Russell Pitre
You can only look bad if you are bad. She did it on her own. There is no shame she didn't bring on her own. If you want to make excuse to horrible leadership then maybe you are part of the problem too.
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SP5 (Join to see)
CW3 (Join to see) Not dealing with the issue is what makes us "all look bad". Rally Point comments in general on this topic are focused on failures to manage, to lead, and to perform - at multiple levels in the organizations involved. To ignore this would perpetuate an intolerable situation.
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CW3 (Join to see)
Like I said. I get where u are coming from but I think differently; I don't think the issue will get resolved this way. I say a group of Soldiers confront the situation face to face. That's all I'm saying.
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CW3 (Join to see)
I thought this was a site to voice your opinion and not to judge or point blAme and surely not to argue. I definitely was not making excuses for her!! I am an awesome warrant office and I come from a corps who cares and stands up for the right thing and confronts issues head on, not behind a keyboard. I don't think is was very fair or nice of u CPT to say I may be part of the problem when Nbr one, you don't know me and Nbr two you DONT know me. So making comments like that is unprofessional and embarrassing to the officer Corp. aye aye aye. I'm out
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