Posted on Apr 27, 2016
What would you do if your CSM was ignoring uniform and grooming standards? (CSM Flournoy)
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So this CSM from the the 8th MP BDE seems to be out of regulations. From the comments she has been corrected but she claims she is being harassed. I don't even understand how she got to be a CSM at a BDE. What COL out there is letting this happen? In one of the photos she is wearing stilettos in uniform. WTF? What kind of example is this. The worst is from a Facebook user that said:
"This one!!!! Holy **** she was in charge of us in Afghanistan!! I could go on and on about this toxic leader!! Trying to maintain professionalism but this one.....when a CSM so jacked up like this, she was laughing her ass off during our rehearsal of my brothers ceremony after he was killed in Afghanistan, she f***ing yelled at me because I "took too long saying my goodbye " as I'm f***ing crying kneeling in front of it. This post will probably get me in trouble, and ruin the rest of my army career as well as my day and my army experience."
What would you do if you were there? What if you were on command?
What should the Army do about this?
(Thanks to Army MP WTF Moments and it's followers for the photos.)
**************UPDATE************************
The 8th Theater Sustainment Command CSM will be travelling to the 8th MP BDE to have some one on one time with this CSM. It is amazing as leaders will do when they are being called out. He should have done that a long time ago.
"This one!!!! Holy **** she was in charge of us in Afghanistan!! I could go on and on about this toxic leader!! Trying to maintain professionalism but this one.....when a CSM so jacked up like this, she was laughing her ass off during our rehearsal of my brothers ceremony after he was killed in Afghanistan, she f***ing yelled at me because I "took too long saying my goodbye " as I'm f***ing crying kneeling in front of it. This post will probably get me in trouble, and ruin the rest of my army career as well as my day and my army experience."
What would you do if you were there? What if you were on command?
What should the Army do about this?
(Thanks to Army MP WTF Moments and it's followers for the photos.)
**************UPDATE************************
The 8th Theater Sustainment Command CSM will be travelling to the 8th MP BDE to have some one on one time with this CSM. It is amazing as leaders will do when they are being called out. He should have done that a long time ago.
Posted in these groups: 
CSM
Grooming Standards
CSM Grooming Standards
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 903
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There is a trend of leadership in today's Army that is unsettling at best. It is a combination of the last 14 years of chasing our tails. 20 years ago I had a CSM that would have dedicate his soul to her destruction, and sell tickets. What happened to the days when the CSM was a Legend made of Granite and their word was law. I wonder, when we stopped using polish to bullet proof our boots, did it mysteriously unleash the retard gene.
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This CSM has been getting away with this since at *least '07-08. That's when I encountered her in Iraq. Any and all attempts to address her appearance were summarily dismissed, met with yelling, threats, tantrums ect. She was protected by her chain of command as well; several Soldiers reported her poor behavior only to be negatively counseled and sent on Their way.
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CSM Charles Hayden
SGT Michael Koukaras What a sad commentary! Thank you for your service. With an Army that tolerates such conduct, it is no wonder you are GONE!
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LTC (Join to see)
I first encountered her in 2005. My unit mobilized to back fill one of their deploying units. We showed up for our first meet and greet, everyone else was in ACUs or BDUs and she was wearing a skin tight, short, low cut, bright red dress and stiletto heels. We all thought she was a civilian contractor or someone's wife until they introduced her as the BN CSM.
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I am disgusted. As an NCO, and a 1SG I accept I am the standard bearer for the enlisted men of my company and the force.
I tactfully correct my fellow NCOs and Officers to insure WE set the example. In an Army of "Millennials" who need discipline now, more than ever, you don't cave to the soldier and do as they do. You up hold and enforce the standard!
This excuse got a Sergeant Major has forgotten one small fact, "NO ONE is MORE PROFESSIONAL than I!"
She should be counseled and taken to the barber shop and put within standard by her BDE CSM. The commander who allowed it should also be counseled and have some one on one time with the BDE CMDR.
Her response of "harassment" is weak and inexcusable, that's childish. She should be feeling shame and be held accountable for her lack of action. This should have never come to the public eye and is an embarrassment to the entire NCO Corps.
I tactfully correct my fellow NCOs and Officers to insure WE set the example. In an Army of "Millennials" who need discipline now, more than ever, you don't cave to the soldier and do as they do. You up hold and enforce the standard!
This excuse got a Sergeant Major has forgotten one small fact, "NO ONE is MORE PROFESSIONAL than I!"
She should be counseled and taken to the barber shop and put within standard by her BDE CSM. The commander who allowed it should also be counseled and have some one on one time with the BDE CMDR.
Her response of "harassment" is weak and inexcusable, that's childish. She should be feeling shame and be held accountable for her lack of action. This should have never come to the public eye and is an embarrassment to the entire NCO Corps.
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CPL Wilfred Roberge
I am a Veteran as a Corporal but I no onger have my hard stripes as my reserve unit has no slot for them so I am a SPC, while at College I made it my mission to correct ROTC Cadets since there was no ROTC BN on Campus (they had to go to another college for thier ROTC classes). Some of them punks had the nerve to try and "pull rank", I told them if you really think you outrank me then do the right thing and wear the uniform correct, take out your piercing, put on the proper cover (no a Boston Red Sox Cover is not allowed under AR 670-1). Their ROTC leadership must have been jacked up like the above CSM.
My point, no matter your rank try and be "all that you can be" and lead by example!!!!! Be the example and "don't be made an example of."
My point, no matter your rank try and be "all that you can be" and lead by example!!!!! Be the example and "don't be made an example of."
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SGM(P) (Join to see)
Roger, the original posting I saw said sergeant major. But regardless her peers should have tightened her up. But thank you for bringing it to my attention. Surely the post or division sergeant major could have adressed this. No worries I understand the SMA is going to address it personally
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CPT Russell Pitre Found one of the same photos on the BDE fb page; no unit URL tho. Kinda makes one wonder what is going on out there in Hawaii. Certainly the CO must be aware of and either approve or condone her manner of violations. With all the senior NCOs and officers out there she must be protected by someone to get by with that. Perhaps someone should forward these images on to the CG or IG for their review and approval. Pls keep RP posted as to how this works out.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
Has anyone seen the commander's uniform? If the CSM is a mess....I wonder what the Commander looks like?
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SFC (Join to see)
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint - I know your retired is NOT PFC -- Unless you mean Private "F" Citizen. ;) By the way -- this chick's hair burns me up. Must remember I am retired!!! Be safe, JRL.. :)
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
You were the smart one, and glad to see someone remembers the PF Civilian. I did not know you were on RP. I thought of you when I saw this. You could handle a lot of people.
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CW3 Douglas Branson
Capt Mark Strobl - Yes, uniforms and stilettos rock, but HOT as it may be.....probly not the best idea she ever had.
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CW3 Douglas Branson
CPT Joseph K Murdock - LOL....she's not Russian...it's Catherine Bell from the TV show "JAG".
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Give her 1 hour to get her hair cut and back into regulation, place a letter of reprimand intro her file, fire her, have her sign retirement paperwork. If she refuses, a Courts Martial.
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SPC Joseph Durham
Probably the most sensible thing to do from possibly the only rank in the US Army that can do it. Sir you are 100% correct. Think about what this CSM is doing to the enlisted under her. They see the disrespect to the uniform but are afraid of repercussions. A Soldier can see a career go down the tubes really quickly for trying to tell her of the corrections she needs to make.
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With all the attention this has drawn her (and the subsequent blemishes against Senior NCO Leadership) I'm quite confidant SMA Daly has made a few calls. It's unfortunate it would have to come to that but, the SMA is a CHAMPION of high NCO Standards. He'll not let this slide.
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Suspended Profile
I went to the Sergeant's Major Academy with SMA Daly and I know you are very correct in that assumption.
SFC(P) (Join to see)
CSM Charles Hayden - Well.... From what I read (and it's been a while back) CSM Flournoy was counseled for her apparent violations of AR670-1. No further action was deemed necessary by her Command.
There was an unintended (albeit predictable) consequence for a couple of the "Whistle Blowers" who were called out for intentionally launching a "Smear Campaign" on social media with the sole intent to discredit and shame a CSM.
Otherwise, this story has faded into obscurity for the most part.
There was an unintended (albeit predictable) consequence for a couple of the "Whistle Blowers" who were called out for intentionally launching a "Smear Campaign" on social media with the sole intent to discredit and shame a CSM.
Otherwise, this story has faded into obscurity for the most part.
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LTC (Join to see)
PO2 (Join to see) - where do you think that stereotype came from? people don't just pull stereotypes from their nether regions. Most of them are based on truth. NCOs like this reinforce those stereotypes.
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SSG Tony Robinson
I don't give rat's ass where the stereotype comes from, there's no place for it in a Professional military. My God, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
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SFC (Join to see)
I expect to see comments like this on sites like US Army WTF Moments Facebook page, not on a more professional site like RallyPoint. Sad.
This detracts from the bigger issue of leadership enforcing standards.
This detracts from the bigger issue of leadership enforcing standards.
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I retire in 30 days, I have been working in my new career for the past 30 days and "blending in" which means letting beard grow out. However when asked to don my uniform for a military themed event I shaved in order to not disgrace the uniform and my Army.
I have hear mention that she is pursuing disciplinary action on anyone posting negative comments on social media so I will refrain from it however I would gladly stay on active duty as long as it takes to debate the regulations with her. ANYONE can make a correction, rank is irrelevant but many senior leaders will skull drag anyone below them trying, I'm good with it.
I have hear mention that she is pursuing disciplinary action on anyone posting negative comments on social media so I will refrain from it however I would gladly stay on active duty as long as it takes to debate the regulations with her. ANYONE can make a correction, rank is irrelevant but many senior leaders will skull drag anyone below them trying, I'm good with it.
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SFC David Pratt
I'll say it. She is a piece of shit who should be fragged. The more I read on this NCO, the more I get sick. This is what happens when NCO's are allowed to write their own report cards, forge pt and weapons qual tests, etc. start promoting the right people instead of worrying about the army's equal opportunity program. Get this piece of shit out of the army!
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SSG (Join to see)
SFC Ski - I have been talking to service members here at FLW who have been personally berat, dropped, or had complaints filed against them for trying to make on the spot corrections. She was known to state they did not apply to her. I could saw more but I start clearing next month. I see a slap on her hand and hell for the SM that called her on it.
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Thanks to FB, her soldiers will finally be vindicated. I immediately think of several things:
1) Who's been letting her get away with this? BOOM, hold them accountable. Who recommended her for DS school, for 1SG, for CSM? And why did they do so? BOOM, hold em accountable.
2) Take a look at every soldier's record who was chaptered, reduced and not recommended for promotion across her Army career. How many were put out? How many careers ruined by her?
Toxicity isn't localized, it's a disease. It's a cancer. It leaves traces wherever it touches.
I GUARANTEE 8th MP BDE is not the first to be affected by her.
1) Who's been letting her get away with this? BOOM, hold them accountable. Who recommended her for DS school, for 1SG, for CSM? And why did they do so? BOOM, hold em accountable.
2) Take a look at every soldier's record who was chaptered, reduced and not recommended for promotion across her Army career. How many were put out? How many careers ruined by her?
Toxicity isn't localized, it's a disease. It's a cancer. It leaves traces wherever it touches.
I GUARANTEE 8th MP BDE is not the first to be affected by her.
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SFC (Join to see)
Of course not, the CSMs have been fat, toxic and now unprofessional and toxic since I had my run ins with them in 2010 until present.
The last three COLs have been entitled and toxic, involved in sex scandals and now feckless to correct blatant violations by his senior enlisted advisor.
I filed congressional complaints on behalf of my wife and the House Liaison Col Lynn, would stop or muddy the complaints with undue influence about our character. It wasn't until I talked to my congresswoman that I was made aware of this, so I made her aware that Col Lynn was a former 8th MP Commander.
The MP Corps sadly has less good quality leaders than the toxic self-serving ones. I wish this wasn't so, but it is.
The last three COLs have been entitled and toxic, involved in sex scandals and now feckless to correct blatant violations by his senior enlisted advisor.
I filed congressional complaints on behalf of my wife and the House Liaison Col Lynn, would stop or muddy the complaints with undue influence about our character. It wasn't until I talked to my congresswoman that I was made aware of this, so I made her aware that Col Lynn was a former 8th MP Commander.
The MP Corps sadly has less good quality leaders than the toxic self-serving ones. I wish this wasn't so, but it is.
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SSG Lonny Self
we do this to are self in the enlisted ranks I call this the fedder sindrum I worked at a missile sight one of them remote sights we had a soldier that did not fit in with the rest of us socially he was a bit hard on the day to day this guy had no common sense so we would find tasks that cept him lets say away from the rest of us and we sent him to school and so on and soon he was gone I must say that he attended lots of training classes and went to all the good schools that the rest of us could not because we where so involved with are work , well leep forward a mear 7 years and now he is my csm and yes he is still the same person you have just describe to a tee he retired I did not he made csm I did not all because we made him what he was for the most part like I said very smart guy very annoying human and it happen to the female ranks for the same reasons
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