What would you do if your CSM was ignoring uniform and grooming standards? (CSM Flournoy)

Cpl Gabriel F. - I'm afraid I don't really understand the point you are trying to make with the fragmented statements above. No disrespect intended, I just don't see where you are going with this, or exactly what it is in response to. Could you clarify for me?

Cpl Gabriel F. - I can address one or two things: I personally know of many Marines that end up serving in the Army because of the 'up or out' policy for NCOs in the Corps. My son had 6 Marines in his Army unit, and that was the reason that 4 of the 6 were there. They were not substandard Marines ( I assume Army wouldn't take them otherwise), but the Corps is small, and with sequestration and force-reductions there are not enough chairs when the music stops, especially in support roles where many seek reenlistment. I know one Marine Sgt. who just transferred to the Air Force for that reason. And I can also tell you that page 7 entries or Article 32s in your record definitely can prevent advancement which results in the 'up or out' rule being applied.

The new improved Marine Corps was slowly following the corporate army policy since the end of Vietnam War. Accelerating faster and faster with exceptions only being made during a shooting deployments. The way of the 40's, 50's 60's era Marine Corps focused on combat. Yes all of these era's were represented in the Corps when my time came. My last SGT. MAJOR enlisted in 1944 and fought on Okinawa, Korea around
Chosin and three tours in country.
No political correctness, no up or out or any other political POG order to force out good Marines just because of trouble during garrison duty. Recruits landed on Parris Island in handcuffs to begin recruit training. Old salts were brought back aboard ship or station in chains after liberty for fighting which sometimes included navy shore patrol fights.
NCO leaders had to handle matters with fists and feet as required Drill Instructors on the island made recruits feel pain with more than PT. No little red card. NCO rank was earned by more than time in grade or written tests.
Brig and custody platoon did the discipline, attitude adjustment required on occasion.
What the point is Baker, in fragmented grunt, Marines that were expert in combat arms and rated high in the squad abilities really mattered. Marines that pissed on dead enemy or made statements about the female body would not be looked down or given page 7 entries or brought up on Article 32. Punishment, crap details and restriction were the order of the day.
The Corps of getting rid of combat Veterans from Panama, Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan and all points in between with some up and out type rules is a waste of a weapon of war.

Ok, now I'm following you Cpl. Yeah, the Corps had a surlier reputation back in the old Corps with the Old Breed. Personally, I was in from 1984 to 1990. DIs 'officially' didn't strike a recruit, and I am sure that is still the 'official' policy today, but that doesn't take the sting out of that recruit's jaw. My favorite quote is from Chesty Puller. He had captured a number of Japanese and was returning them to the rear area when he was given a mission change to go on a long recon mission. Well, he wasn't going to let those Japanese soldiers go, and bullets were short so he ordered them all bayoneted until dead. In his after-action report he stated "The pig-sticking was good." Well, our politicians and media would lose it over that kind of comment today. You are right about that. Yet, we now have 'mad-dog Maddis' serving in the White House as Sec Def, so maybe there is hope for us. After all, he said things to the media like "It's fun to shoot men like them" referring to the jihadists in Iraq who beat women and rape boys. They didn't have a time-out chit when I went through MCRD San Diego, and I understand that sorry episode only lasted a couple years. The Corps still bucks as it is beaten into submission by the PC Police, which is more than you can say for the other branches. It is unfortunate that today due to a down-sizing cycle of our armed forces that there simply isn't a place for many of our fine NCOs, so they go join the Army many times. The Corps took the biggest hit of all the branches when measured as a percentage of our members. At least the Army leaders know the Corps makes good NCOs and most get accepted when their tenure in the Corps is forcibly ended. I had a Master Gunnery Sergeant in my unit, which is odd for an aviation unit, but he started as a grunt in Vietnam during Tet. He told me the story that when they were attacked and he experienced his first protracted mortar bombardment all he did was fall on the ground and cover his head, and literally pissed himself. After the shelling stopped, his SMjr snatched him up to his feet and told him "You'll be alright now son" and walked away. He said he believed at that moment the SMjr was the tallest man he had ever met, and that he was right, he was ok after that. Thanks for your service Corporal.

Dare I make the assumption that quotas might have something to do with it? It's the only reason I can think of that they would allow such behavior from a senior enlisted person.

Sgt Joseph Baker - Even that doesn't make sense. Last I saw there are plenty of minority members in the ranks! Now, another thought did occur to me - could she be going through some mental issues? Some disorders don't manifest until later in life, so...... She may have been an exemplary NCO and then some event triggered her. Guessing here is all.

SPC Don Wynn - Yes, there may be reasons for her behavior, but why was it being ignored? That is my point. I don't mean to put down any minority service members, but quotas and minority status may make commanders reluctant to take action for fear of legal action.

Sgt Joseph Baker - That could be. A CSM could also have some powerful backers. Quotas wouldn't matter, but the minority status could be a reason. But, irregardless of all that, my overriding thought is why would you want to appear like that in front of your troops? CSM are the top dogs of the enlisted ranks, these are soldiers every grunt from the 1st day basic training meatsacks to the most decorated combat veteran turns to for advice and leadership. And for the 'how to do it' help as well. I can't get over the lack of self pride she exhibits!