Posted on Apr 27, 2016
What would you do if your CSM was ignoring uniform and grooming standards? (CSM Flournoy)
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So this CSM from the the 8th MP BDE seems to be out of regulations. From the comments she has been corrected but she claims she is being harassed. I don't even understand how she got to be a CSM at a BDE. What COL out there is letting this happen? In one of the photos she is wearing stilettos in uniform. WTF? What kind of example is this. The worst is from a Facebook user that said:
"This one!!!! Holy **** she was in charge of us in Afghanistan!! I could go on and on about this toxic leader!! Trying to maintain professionalism but this one.....when a CSM so jacked up like this, she was laughing her ass off during our rehearsal of my brothers ceremony after he was killed in Afghanistan, she f***ing yelled at me because I "took too long saying my goodbye " as I'm f***ing crying kneeling in front of it. This post will probably get me in trouble, and ruin the rest of my army career as well as my day and my army experience."
What would you do if you were there? What if you were on command?
What should the Army do about this?
(Thanks to Army MP WTF Moments and it's followers for the photos.)
**************UPDATE************************
The 8th Theater Sustainment Command CSM will be travelling to the 8th MP BDE to have some one on one time with this CSM. It is amazing as leaders will do when they are being called out. He should have done that a long time ago.
"This one!!!! Holy **** she was in charge of us in Afghanistan!! I could go on and on about this toxic leader!! Trying to maintain professionalism but this one.....when a CSM so jacked up like this, she was laughing her ass off during our rehearsal of my brothers ceremony after he was killed in Afghanistan, she f***ing yelled at me because I "took too long saying my goodbye " as I'm f***ing crying kneeling in front of it. This post will probably get me in trouble, and ruin the rest of my army career as well as my day and my army experience."
What would you do if you were there? What if you were on command?
What should the Army do about this?
(Thanks to Army MP WTF Moments and it's followers for the photos.)
**************UPDATE************************
The 8th Theater Sustainment Command CSM will be travelling to the 8th MP BDE to have some one on one time with this CSM. It is amazing as leaders will do when they are being called out. He should have done that a long time ago.
Posted in these groups: 
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Grooming Standards
CSM Grooming Standards
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Responses: 918
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SFC Jim Ruether
She needs to quietly go away and retire! If she keeps this up she'll get a medal from POTUS for being the poster girl for victims of bullying.
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I have said before in this format, Soldiers are be promoted way too fast in today's Army, both Officer and Enlisted. I was an MP in 1971 in Germany, at that time, we set the standards. As an MP, you can not enforce and correct the standards unless you meet them. This does not say much for her unit or the Army in general today. She is in a high visibility position, what is going on? I want to know what happened to following the AR's and standards of conduct? I have noticed this problem since 2003, where their were individuals in positions that should have never been promoted. What did she learn when she went to Sergeants Major course?
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SGT Thomas Gorgas
My question is, where the hell is her Division CSM? He should havesnatched her up short and had a very long talk with her. The entire NCO chain in that Division has failed.
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1SG Robert Rush
You are correct Tom. I don't care what a person has on their sleeve or collar, Army Regulations are Army Regulations . They are for everyone that wears the uniform, duty or other wise.
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Looks like upper leadership let her get away with it...I would have no problem bringing uniform regulation violations up to her. I was prior enlisted and now an officer I did my time at the enlisted level and worked under some pretty damn good CSMs when I was in the Marines. She definitively is what I would call a shit bird in uniform and a poor example of a leader.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Art. 92, Failure to Obey an Order or Regulation.
At her current rank and position, you could probably thrown in Art. 134, for " all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces"
At her current rank and position, you could probably thrown in Art. 134, for " all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces"
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Perhaps a conversation with her rater is in order. We cannot lead with example.
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MSG Clifton Stillwell
CSM(P) (Join to see) - SGM, she has been this way since at least 2006 2007 when I first met her in Iraq. Pretty sure she was the Operations SGM for the 92nd MP BN at the time, if my memory is correct. I remember our female soldiers asking how a SGM gets away with being a POS...
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CSM(P) (Join to see)
MSG Clifton Stillwell - MSG, I don't personally know the CSM, so I couldn't possibly speak to your question. There were others in the original thread that served with her and that was where a digital conversation was posted about her having one on one time with her CSM.
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MSG Clifton Stillwell
CSM(P) (Join to see) - I didn't ask a question, I made a statement. I never worked directly for her but because of certain positions I held I had to interact with her on a few occasions. I never knew her personally but was far from impressed with her appearance as a Senior NCO.
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I can't even wrap my head around this .Maybe the Army has different protocols , but in my time Marine Staff NCOs and especially Sergeants Major were held to the most rigid exemplars. The "Old man " would tear even the Battallion Sgt major a new one over less...
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CPL Wilfred Roberge
some people for some reason seem to "have their way" and "never get in trouble" while others get in trouble for much less
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Makes are SCARED to correct females. I see it all the time. Colored hair, fake nails, earrings in ACUs---they wait for a female to address the issue. Well, I tell my male Soliders when they be fucked yo, why can't male NCOs do their job too?
Whenever I see a chicks hair out of regs I get so upset, because THEIR LEADERSHIP is allowing it to happen. 670-1 isn't long. Read it. Abide by it. Enforce it. No more "I don't know female regs" excuse. It's bullshit.
Whenever I see a chicks hair out of regs I get so upset, because THEIR LEADERSHIP is allowing it to happen. 670-1 isn't long. Read it. Abide by it. Enforce it. No more "I don't know female regs" excuse. It's bullshit.
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1LT (Join to see)
I have to admit, I have accidentally forgotten to take out my earrings on more than one occasion and have always appreciated when my soldiers would point it out to me prior to seeing someone in my rating scheme, and helping me stay in regs.
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MAJ (Join to see)
^This. Doubly so if it's a minority female. There is a huge (and not totally unjustified) that the recipient of the correction will raise a stink about harassment and/or discrimination.
As an Infantry officer, I counted myself very lucky that when I did end up in charge of females, I had female SNCOs with high standards working for me, and a helpful female fellow officers who could clarify things when I had questions.
As an Infantry officer, I counted myself very lucky that when I did end up in charge of females, I had female SNCOs with high standards working for me, and a helpful female fellow officers who could clarify things when I had questions.
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PO1 Ben Johnson
I once watched a Command Master Chief (1980) tell a female, during a command inspection, that if she was going to wear that mustache it had better meet regs. She trimmed it! Was she ugly hell yeah. Was she able to use a "card" to seek revenge against the MCPO for his statement? No, she followed orders and complied with regs. The worst part of this whole story is that she was not stopped long ago. That is a leadership problem. But something only a few have keyed on-- If in fact she laughed at a memorial for a fallen troop-- she should have that mop shaved and thrown in the brig with no stripes on her uniform. Horrible. Her current CoC ( I refrain from using the term leaders) maybe should have her read all these posts out loud on some painted feet on a parade field of a boot camp in the rain!
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Hate to say it, but too many commanders and senior non-comms are too afraid to do the right thing when necessary today to members of the unofficial, protected classes. There are just too many cards that can be played today and it is human nature to avoid the turd sandwich when possible.
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MSG Dale Simpson
True story, still does not make it right but I have seen it before. I look forward to seeing this resolved as it should have been way before now.
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