Posted on Aug 17, 2016
When did the military lose the art of smoking bags?
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When I came in Soldiers made mistakes and we were corrected by the judicious use of smoking bags aka lots of PT. As time wore on, there was less and less of this done and many excuses given by DS, DI's, NCO'S and as to the merits of new methods of corrective training. I'm asking ALL former DS/DI's and leaders as a whole, should we go back to doing it within guidance or forget it ever happened?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 15
Nothing stressed me out as much as when the Matv I was in got hit with an ied. first time a mortar lands within 100 meters too. shooting wasn't comparatively as bad until I thought about getting hit in a major vessel. At a minimum, one of the ways teams work in the military is having trust in the ability of your peers. Granted, no one knows how they will react and people have varying degrees of they do. Causing stressors through a smoking or shouting is an inexpensive method. If someone breaks down when getting shouted at for example and can't carry a box of mre's, would that be acceptable to have happen as a leader that is trying to situation troops in an actual stressful situation. unless you want equality, some MOS should not have to give up their ability to make on the spot corrections, it only makes sense.
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SSG Warren Swan
"NO MOS should not have to give up their ability to make on the spot corrections. It only makes sense". Damn right.
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From a non-leader (yet) perspective:
Smoke sessions are invaluable. Not only do they teach the lesson needed in an unforgettable fashion, but they strengthen our forces exponentially. See, back in the day, we did not have NEARLY as many PT failures because our soldiers were strong. Why? Because when they screwed up, they got the dog sh*t smoked out of them. The extra PT helped them strengthen and condition themselves. And guess what? When the metal started meeting the meat, those same soldiers could readily and fairly easily sling their buddy up over a shoulder and haul a** out of the LOD.
Now follow this with the simple statement: Pain is a better teacher than paper. A counseling statement will make someone go "oh, okay, that wasn't right" for about a week, and then they forget all about it. But that paper follows them. However, you smoke a soldier's balls off, and he will learn and not forget because the memory of that pain will stick with him. Show up late? Okay. 500 pushups, 600 situps, 500 flutterkicks, and then you just hang out in the Front Leaning Rest until you fall out. Or Koala their happy a** out in the woodline. See if they show up late again.
Smoke sessions are invaluable. Not only do they teach the lesson needed in an unforgettable fashion, but they strengthen our forces exponentially. See, back in the day, we did not have NEARLY as many PT failures because our soldiers were strong. Why? Because when they screwed up, they got the dog sh*t smoked out of them. The extra PT helped them strengthen and condition themselves. And guess what? When the metal started meeting the meat, those same soldiers could readily and fairly easily sling their buddy up over a shoulder and haul a** out of the LOD.
Now follow this with the simple statement: Pain is a better teacher than paper. A counseling statement will make someone go "oh, okay, that wasn't right" for about a week, and then they forget all about it. But that paper follows them. However, you smoke a soldier's balls off, and he will learn and not forget because the memory of that pain will stick with him. Show up late? Okay. 500 pushups, 600 situps, 500 flutterkicks, and then you just hang out in the Front Leaning Rest until you fall out. Or Koala their happy a** out in the woodline. See if they show up late again.
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SSG Warren Swan
I agree. The argument which was dead solid was when does smoke interfere with NJP? It's a fine line, and there are those who could see the line and when to stop easily. The others who don't have tarnished a tool...a good tool, and forced the command groups hand to ban it. I believe a hard but solid addition to the PT manual could cover that and allow units to crank down harder with the overall intent kept.
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Well it happened when all the Nations of the world got together and decided not to keep score on the battlefield, and to give everyone a participation ribbon. Didn't you get invited to the conference?
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SSG Warren Swan
Sir I was invited MANY times, and the front leaning rest was the position of the day. No in cadence, just crank em till you puke. Puke? Drink water take a knee. Done? New exercise til you puke again. Water gone? Session MIGHT be over.....it can go indoors, and that's worse. Now I had a change to recharge and all hell is about to start again.
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