Posted on Sep 29, 2014
When it comes to relationship violence, is it sexist to look at men and women differently?
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Whether you are looking at domestic violence, sexual assault, date rape, sexual harassment, etc, there appears to be a stark distinction between whether the male is the accused or the target. The message that no one is speaking, but that all of these policies are screaming is that, "Women are helpless and need special protection, but men can/should take care of themselves."
Take a look at this video. It starts out as you would expect it to, but then it takes a turn. http://goo.gl/tNydhN Issued in The Public Interest http://goo.gl/VVYOtO #ViolenceIsViolence #STOP DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
I had a Soldier who had the police called to his residence several times - because of his wife. Her screaming and yelling would prompt neighbors to call the MPs. On one occasion, she had smashed every dish the couple owned. No charges. Then one evening, during a fight, he grabbed a bottle of baby powder and threw it into a trash can in a "violent manner." He was charged with domestic violence and hauled down to the station. He was informed that throwing an object during a domestic dispute would trigger automatic charges. Really? Because it hadn't when his wife had done it the month before.
I went to SHARP training this weekend at drill where there was much head shaking about why women would file restricted reports, or not report the incidents at all. But when the topic of male sexual assault came up, the predominantly male audience felt that the motivation for not reporting was "obvious." Really? The censuses was that it is "not as embarrassing" for a woman to be sexually violated. WOW!
Sexual harassment is another area where women seem to get more of a pass and men should just tough it out. Why can I talk about your "balls" with complete impunity? Could a man tell me I was lacking some part of my female anatomy? Imagine the reaction a man would get if he filed a complaint because someone told him he has a real big pair. But, what would happen to a man who commented on my breast size? I was involved in a case where a male was in trouble for "winking suggestively." Not saying he didn't or that it was the right thing to do...but if I had a dollar for every time I saw a female Soldier wink teasingly at a male Soldier, I could retire right now.
And then my last, and probably somewhat unconventional point here is when it comes to date rape situations, why is it that only the female can use "I was too drunk" as a defense? The rules really call for the male to judge the female's level of intoxication, no matter how drunk he happens to be. I get it if the other person is unconscious, but the new California "Yes means Yes" law says that someone who is drunk cannot give consent. How drunk do you have to be to be unable to give consent? I don't know. The rules don't say. I'm sorry but in a male/female situation, I only see that playing out in one direction. I don't see where a guy could file a complaint and claim, "she took advantage of the fact that I was drunk," and have those charges stick. At the same time, it is also unclear what constitutes consent. From the Swarthmore College handbook: If you ask, “Do you want this?”, you may not infer consent from the mere fact that your partner pulls you down on the bed and moves to take off your clothes. The "mere fact"... I feel that this leaves men very vulnerable in a way that wouldn't apply to women.
Is this helpful? Will any of this prevent these acts? Or is this a subversive form of discrimination where incompetence/innocence is assumed based solely on gender? (obviously, this is what I think, but what do you think?)
Take a look at this video. It starts out as you would expect it to, but then it takes a turn. http://goo.gl/tNydhN Issued in The Public Interest http://goo.gl/VVYOtO #ViolenceIsViolence #STOP DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
I had a Soldier who had the police called to his residence several times - because of his wife. Her screaming and yelling would prompt neighbors to call the MPs. On one occasion, she had smashed every dish the couple owned. No charges. Then one evening, during a fight, he grabbed a bottle of baby powder and threw it into a trash can in a "violent manner." He was charged with domestic violence and hauled down to the station. He was informed that throwing an object during a domestic dispute would trigger automatic charges. Really? Because it hadn't when his wife had done it the month before.
I went to SHARP training this weekend at drill where there was much head shaking about why women would file restricted reports, or not report the incidents at all. But when the topic of male sexual assault came up, the predominantly male audience felt that the motivation for not reporting was "obvious." Really? The censuses was that it is "not as embarrassing" for a woman to be sexually violated. WOW!
Sexual harassment is another area where women seem to get more of a pass and men should just tough it out. Why can I talk about your "balls" with complete impunity? Could a man tell me I was lacking some part of my female anatomy? Imagine the reaction a man would get if he filed a complaint because someone told him he has a real big pair. But, what would happen to a man who commented on my breast size? I was involved in a case where a male was in trouble for "winking suggestively." Not saying he didn't or that it was the right thing to do...but if I had a dollar for every time I saw a female Soldier wink teasingly at a male Soldier, I could retire right now.
And then my last, and probably somewhat unconventional point here is when it comes to date rape situations, why is it that only the female can use "I was too drunk" as a defense? The rules really call for the male to judge the female's level of intoxication, no matter how drunk he happens to be. I get it if the other person is unconscious, but the new California "Yes means Yes" law says that someone who is drunk cannot give consent. How drunk do you have to be to be unable to give consent? I don't know. The rules don't say. I'm sorry but in a male/female situation, I only see that playing out in one direction. I don't see where a guy could file a complaint and claim, "she took advantage of the fact that I was drunk," and have those charges stick. At the same time, it is also unclear what constitutes consent. From the Swarthmore College handbook: If you ask, “Do you want this?”, you may not infer consent from the mere fact that your partner pulls you down on the bed and moves to take off your clothes. The "mere fact"... I feel that this leaves men very vulnerable in a way that wouldn't apply to women.
Is this helpful? Will any of this prevent these acts? Or is this a subversive form of discrimination where incompetence/innocence is assumed based solely on gender? (obviously, this is what I think, but what do you think?)
Sexual Harassment
Sexual Assault
SHARP
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 17
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I think men have been thought of as the "dominant" sex in society for so long that one does a double take when a man is the target of domestic violence from a woman. I don't think its sexist because based on historical reporting the preponderance of cases are man on woman. I would think men may have more of an issue reporting a woman on man case because of the "perceived embarrassment" - OK if that is not sexist, I don't know what is.
Good topic CPT (Join to see)!
Good topic CPT (Join to see)!
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SSG Keith Frost
been to plenty of domestics and it is about 50%. Have seen plenty of guys take an ass kicking from their wife to avoid UCMJ action. Especially the ones with security clearances.
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PO3 Shaun Taylor
I agree with SSG Keith Frost while on ambulance duty at Camp Pendleton, about 50% of our domestic calls were the men being the "victims." I've seen guys take the punches because they didn't want to get in trouble and I've seen guys fight back and just didn't win. In both cases they tried to convince us not to report the incidents as domestic to avoid punishment and/or embarrassment. Yeah I think it's somewhat sexist to view them differently but a man's best friend is his pride.
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CPT (Join to see), excellent topic and outstanding commentary. Like MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca stated, you asked some great questions and brought up great points. I am a certified SHARP Representative, or at least I was since I now have one day left in service, and the subject of double standards is something I struggle with as well as try to address in my briefings.
Men are predominantly the ones who commit the most rapes but women also commit rapes too. There was a news article just recently sometime last week about a guy waking up to find his female neighbor on top of him. She was arrested for rape. There are also the rare false allegations too which heavily damage a person's reputation. Personally, I call this mental rape. Look at the Duke Lacrosse case from several years ago where three young men were falsely accused of rape. Part of the problem with sexual assaults or harassment is that double standard heavily favoring women where men are always at fault, like in your domestic example above.
Regarding that, I can't possibly fathom why the wife wouldn't be held accountable for her more severe actions compared to his. The sad thing is, in the military, if the MPs are called to a male service-member's residence and something physical occurred, it'll be the male who has to leave regardless of what happened. This is not fair. The irony of it all is many will say "Well, he's just much stronger" or "He can do more damage" yet there's the hypocritical cry of inequality against women. Sorry, it goes both ways. Women can do just as much damage as a man. In some cases even worse. If there is to be true equality amongst ALL, regardless of gender, ethnicity or skin color, then each person must be held responsible or accountable for their actions.
Men are predominantly the ones who commit the most rapes but women also commit rapes too. There was a news article just recently sometime last week about a guy waking up to find his female neighbor on top of him. She was arrested for rape. There are also the rare false allegations too which heavily damage a person's reputation. Personally, I call this mental rape. Look at the Duke Lacrosse case from several years ago where three young men were falsely accused of rape. Part of the problem with sexual assaults or harassment is that double standard heavily favoring women where men are always at fault, like in your domestic example above.
Regarding that, I can't possibly fathom why the wife wouldn't be held accountable for her more severe actions compared to his. The sad thing is, in the military, if the MPs are called to a male service-member's residence and something physical occurred, it'll be the male who has to leave regardless of what happened. This is not fair. The irony of it all is many will say "Well, he's just much stronger" or "He can do more damage" yet there's the hypocritical cry of inequality against women. Sorry, it goes both ways. Women can do just as much damage as a man. In some cases even worse. If there is to be true equality amongst ALL, regardless of gender, ethnicity or skin color, then each person must be held responsible or accountable for their actions.
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CPT (Join to see)
In the case of my Soldier, she was probably weighed at least 50% more than him and had him in height by an inch. And putting the size issue aside, we talk all the time about the psychological toll abuse takes on the abused, while dismissing that for abused men. Think of all the jokes you hear about men who cannot stand up to their wives/girlfriends. If a woman was in a relationship with a man who controlled all of her comings and goings, never let her hang our with her friends, and criticized all of her hobbies, we would absolutely say she is in an abusive relationship. Yet women do this. Constantly. And the ridiculous belittling! I have had Soldier's spouses refer to the Soldier as their 3rd child (or the number of kids, plus him). I'm your husband's boss. How would it make sense to make a remark like that to me? And again, turning it around, can a husband really get away with talking about or treating his wife like a child?
Being equal doesn't mean tearing men down in order to build ourselves up. We got off track here, in my opinion.
Being equal doesn't mean tearing men down in order to build ourselves up. We got off track here, in my opinion.
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SFC (Join to see)
"Being equal doesn't mean tearing men down in order to build"
Well done Ma'am. That is the way forward.
Well done Ma'am. That is the way forward.
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SSG (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see), your last sentence sums it up very well why I do not like this purported "feminist" movement. This belittling and demeaning of a gender by the opposite gender does us absolutely no good. Men and women both have value to society. It's not just men, and it's not just women. I am all for equal opportunity but NEVER equal outcome. It's up to each one of us to seek out what we want then to figure out how to properly get it.
One thing I forgot to mention in my original post is the blatant double standard of self-defense for a male and a female. We always hear it's just not right for a man to ever hit a woman, etc. I can definitely agree with this as women, for me, are to be treated properly and respected as ladies. Yes, men are generally bigger and much stronger than women but it doesn't mean a man is NOT allowed to defend himself against a very antagonistic woman. I don't have the video readily available but I recently saw something where this woman, who's about 5'6", was just going off verbally on a man. She was screaming and cussing him out, getting somewhat close to him, accusing him of "putting a bullet on her car". The guy was maybe just shy of 6 ft and was about 240 lbs. At the same time, a friend (also a female) of the woman was backing up the woman by engaging in the verbal confrontation. The friend was taking pictures and getting up close to the guy. Both women were doing nearly the same thing although it was the first woman who was doing it the most. In the meantime, a friend of the guy was taping the whole thing on his phone. Over the span of a few minutes, the guy NEVER engaged the woman but he stated multiple times "Get away from me" yet she continued to badger him. At one point, she chest bumped him then pushed him. He still didn't physically respond but he continued to tell her to stay away. Finally, after a couple more repeated physical acts by the woman, the guy threw a somewhat soft punch at her face then backed off. She then started screaming he shouldn't have touched her and threatened to call law enforcement. Regardless of what MAY have happened prior, she was absolutely dead wrong to deliberately engage the man as well as getting physical with him especially when he stated, at least 10 times, for her to get away from him. Ridiculous!!!
One thing I forgot to mention in my original post is the blatant double standard of self-defense for a male and a female. We always hear it's just not right for a man to ever hit a woman, etc. I can definitely agree with this as women, for me, are to be treated properly and respected as ladies. Yes, men are generally bigger and much stronger than women but it doesn't mean a man is NOT allowed to defend himself against a very antagonistic woman. I don't have the video readily available but I recently saw something where this woman, who's about 5'6", was just going off verbally on a man. She was screaming and cussing him out, getting somewhat close to him, accusing him of "putting a bullet on her car". The guy was maybe just shy of 6 ft and was about 240 lbs. At the same time, a friend (also a female) of the woman was backing up the woman by engaging in the verbal confrontation. The friend was taking pictures and getting up close to the guy. Both women were doing nearly the same thing although it was the first woman who was doing it the most. In the meantime, a friend of the guy was taping the whole thing on his phone. Over the span of a few minutes, the guy NEVER engaged the woman but he stated multiple times "Get away from me" yet she continued to badger him. At one point, she chest bumped him then pushed him. He still didn't physically respond but he continued to tell her to stay away. Finally, after a couple more repeated physical acts by the woman, the guy threw a somewhat soft punch at her face then backed off. She then started screaming he shouldn't have touched her and threatened to call law enforcement. Regardless of what MAY have happened prior, she was absolutely dead wrong to deliberately engage the man as well as getting physical with him especially when he stated, at least 10 times, for her to get away from him. Ridiculous!!!
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CPT Wolfer, you make some excellent points and you are spot on with every one of them.
While it is not at all well known, there are a lot of "abused husbands" (and I'll include unmarried male partners as well) out there. They are the victims of assault from their wives/female partners and are reluctant to admit it. If they strike back, even in self-defense, they are automatically assumed to be the aggressor in most cases. I have seen it more times than I can count. While I think it is certainly true that the male is more often than not the aggressor in physical assault type situations, it is not always the case and is definitely not unusual for the female to be the actual aggressor. Most times, it is actually more of a "mutual affray" situation.
Interesting discussion about the "date rape" scenario. I had never really thought about it like you described. I don't think we will ever see people accept the male "I was too drunk to realize what I was doing" excuse, however. It is just best for everyone, male and female, to never get to the point that they don't know what is going on.
While it is not at all well known, there are a lot of "abused husbands" (and I'll include unmarried male partners as well) out there. They are the victims of assault from their wives/female partners and are reluctant to admit it. If they strike back, even in self-defense, they are automatically assumed to be the aggressor in most cases. I have seen it more times than I can count. While I think it is certainly true that the male is more often than not the aggressor in physical assault type situations, it is not always the case and is definitely not unusual for the female to be the actual aggressor. Most times, it is actually more of a "mutual affray" situation.
Interesting discussion about the "date rape" scenario. I had never really thought about it like you described. I don't think we will ever see people accept the male "I was too drunk to realize what I was doing" excuse, however. It is just best for everyone, male and female, to never get to the point that they don't know what is going on.
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