Posted on Mar 14, 2015
Which important individual military skill is the worst-taught?
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According to the wisdom of the RallyPoint community, "Communicate" is the most important individual military skill. Of the most important individual military skills which ones are the most poorly taught in our current system?
Extra Credit: How do we do it better?
Most important skill:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/what-is-the-most-important-military-skill?page=9&urlhash=530786#530786
For those that argue Think/Decide/Situational Awareness
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/is-ooda-the-best-description-of-decision-cycling
Extra Credit: How do we do it better?
Most important skill:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/what-is-the-most-important-military-skill?page=9&urlhash=530786#530786
For those that argue Think/Decide/Situational Awareness
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/is-ooda-the-best-description-of-decision-cycling
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 27
Communications should be a skill taught from first grade all the way through grad school....and beyond. We could place our troops in positions which would require them to communicate early in their career, with positive reinforcing critiques...Officers could demand more of their NCOs in the comm dept. Public speaking is man's greatest fear, so it does fall right in line with that idea. Weakness does equate to fear in many avenues in our life. Nothing new there.
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CPT Zachary Brooks
Said this better than I could, so I will do what officers do and steal your idea as my own and claim I came up with it.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
You'll be a better officer for it ....take the credit. Just make our men better then when you found them...
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Capt Richard I P.
Although I don't think plan is an individual skill it is listed so I picked it. The Army as a whole has taken a giant step backwards with regards to planning. One of the principles of mission command is use mission orders. With the almost exclusive use of the CONOP in Iraq and Afghanistan our junior leaders think that is a sufficient order. Now, I believe it is a good tool for what it was meant to be (concept of the operation) but in no way covers the detail that even a hastily prepared OPORD does.
This has affected how we plan for training. The use of the eight step training model is almost unheard of, trying to get my NCOs to use it for Sergeants Time Training required a NCOPD on the subject. Lack of using the eight step training model has impacted training management.
For example, a company commander wants to conduct a squad live fire exercise. He briefs the battalion commander the basic concept at T+6 or 8, he fails to follow the first three steps of the eight step training model and when he attempts to brief the commander at T+4 or 5 for approval he has no resources, certified trainers, hasn't conducted a recon, etc.
You can't effectively train the other listed skills until you are trained on how to plan training/operations.
Although I don't think plan is an individual skill it is listed so I picked it. The Army as a whole has taken a giant step backwards with regards to planning. One of the principles of mission command is use mission orders. With the almost exclusive use of the CONOP in Iraq and Afghanistan our junior leaders think that is a sufficient order. Now, I believe it is a good tool for what it was meant to be (concept of the operation) but in no way covers the detail that even a hastily prepared OPORD does.
This has affected how we plan for training. The use of the eight step training model is almost unheard of, trying to get my NCOs to use it for Sergeants Time Training required a NCOPD on the subject. Lack of using the eight step training model has impacted training management.
For example, a company commander wants to conduct a squad live fire exercise. He briefs the battalion commander the basic concept at T+6 or 8, he fails to follow the first three steps of the eight step training model and when he attempts to brief the commander at T+4 or 5 for approval he has no resources, certified trainers, hasn't conducted a recon, etc.
You can't effectively train the other listed skills until you are trained on how to plan training/operations.
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Capt Richard I P.
CSM (Join to see) I agree the shorthand of "Conops" and "fragging" off of a base order has degraded to the point where there isn't even always a base order to frag from. Under my post I made a similiar argument to yours: failure in any of the others is really failure by a leader to plan properly.
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Teaching Soldiers to communicate is our most challenging problem. It is the hardest to master, and it takes time and patience.
There are several reasons for this: First, is that some people are afraid that if they communicate, they will not get credit for having completed a task or objective - that somehow, by communicating, they are losing control of their mission. These people also tend to micromanage, and are usually poor leaders anyway, because they don't communicate enough information to the Soldiers.
Second, is the person, who believes that if he/she communicates too much information, that that information will somehow lead to mission failure. This is usually a result of not understanding what it is that Soldiers need to know in order to ensure mission success. I was recently experiencing this with my previous company - they would not communicate a status of our contract to us (which was in forced rebid) or the status of the planned change (due to "secrecy"). This has lead to doubt, fear, and rumor mills flying rampant throughout the team that is responsible for running the contract - and as a result, a number (nearly half) of the personnel on the team have quit and found other work.
The third reason someone fails to communicate effectively, is they don't understand that by failing to communicate, they are directly leading to the failure of a mission. If I don't know who, what, or where the enemy is, or when they are going to be there, I can't engage them. If I don't know how the enemy is equipped, I can't provide my guys with an effective defense, or tell them what the enemy may have (identification-wise).
While parts of a mission might be classified, letting your Soldiers know the basics will hardly, if ever, lead to someone blabbing and causing problems down the line. Soldiers, when ever possible, also need to know "why" they are doing something - it may not seem like they need to, and perhaps it's just BS - but helping them understand the "why" actually motivates them to accomplish the mission, even if it is a BS detail. For example: Twice a year, Fort Bragg conducts clean sweep - Soldiers (and leaders) hate clean sweep - but the reason it takes place is because as the training areas get used, all sorts of trash gets left behind. This trash has to be policed up from time to time, so that the training areas remain an effective location to train - it's not just about making the base pretty. Imagine rolling in on your bivouac area, and there's trash scattered everywhere... You'll be pretty pissed off that you have to clean all of it up before you can really make effective use of the area. Soldiers who are told this, are much more likely to understand that even though it sucks, there's a logical reason behind the mission.
Leaders need to communicate regularly, and with enough detail, that Soldiers understand the 5W's and the H, whenever possible and training them on when it's appropriate to talk about what they are doing is a separate detail that leaders need to make sure they understand as well.
There are several reasons for this: First, is that some people are afraid that if they communicate, they will not get credit for having completed a task or objective - that somehow, by communicating, they are losing control of their mission. These people also tend to micromanage, and are usually poor leaders anyway, because they don't communicate enough information to the Soldiers.
Second, is the person, who believes that if he/she communicates too much information, that that information will somehow lead to mission failure. This is usually a result of not understanding what it is that Soldiers need to know in order to ensure mission success. I was recently experiencing this with my previous company - they would not communicate a status of our contract to us (which was in forced rebid) or the status of the planned change (due to "secrecy"). This has lead to doubt, fear, and rumor mills flying rampant throughout the team that is responsible for running the contract - and as a result, a number (nearly half) of the personnel on the team have quit and found other work.
The third reason someone fails to communicate effectively, is they don't understand that by failing to communicate, they are directly leading to the failure of a mission. If I don't know who, what, or where the enemy is, or when they are going to be there, I can't engage them. If I don't know how the enemy is equipped, I can't provide my guys with an effective defense, or tell them what the enemy may have (identification-wise).
While parts of a mission might be classified, letting your Soldiers know the basics will hardly, if ever, lead to someone blabbing and causing problems down the line. Soldiers, when ever possible, also need to know "why" they are doing something - it may not seem like they need to, and perhaps it's just BS - but helping them understand the "why" actually motivates them to accomplish the mission, even if it is a BS detail. For example: Twice a year, Fort Bragg conducts clean sweep - Soldiers (and leaders) hate clean sweep - but the reason it takes place is because as the training areas get used, all sorts of trash gets left behind. This trash has to be policed up from time to time, so that the training areas remain an effective location to train - it's not just about making the base pretty. Imagine rolling in on your bivouac area, and there's trash scattered everywhere... You'll be pretty pissed off that you have to clean all of it up before you can really make effective use of the area. Soldiers who are told this, are much more likely to understand that even though it sucks, there's a logical reason behind the mission.
Leaders need to communicate regularly, and with enough detail, that Soldiers understand the 5W's and the H, whenever possible and training them on when it's appropriate to talk about what they are doing is a separate detail that leaders need to make sure they understand as well.
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Isn't it ironic, the very most important skills to have are the ones we need the most training in..seems legit. Don't we often list our weaknesses, which are actually are our strengths? When critiquing ourselves...
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No one thinks about their radios until they don't work. They assign their least experienced people to be RTO. Seniors persist in poor procedures with those juniors listening and learning it all.
Correct radio checks are almost unheard of.
TOC/CP communications are not universally written down.
"Copy" is not a proword and should only be used if discussing xerography.
And that's just a start on just voice comms. Don't get me started on automation.
Correct radio checks are almost unheard of.
TOC/CP communications are not universally written down.
"Copy" is not a proword and should only be used if discussing xerography.
And that's just a start on just voice comms. Don't get me started on automation.
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I voted "shoot" based on complaints I have viewed form all branches and specifically my own where "shoot" is a just in time training before PCS or deployment vs a routine training on a perishable skill.
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Capt Richard I P.
TSgt Joshua Copeland I think the military routinely underestimates the perish-ability of shooting as a skill.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
Capt Richard I P., I completely agree! If "Josh Copeland ruled the DoD",members that are qualified to be armed based on MOS/AFSC/NEC should fire quarterly and fire for qualification at least annual.
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MSgt Denise Smith
The AF has been penny wise and pound foolish for decades on shooting skills. In 24yrs I shot for qualification maybe 4 times and it was for PCS overseas and deployment after my initial qualification that was at my first assignment to a fighter wing. They need to face the reality that military members need to be able to shoot accurately. A minimum of every two years for folks that are not as frequently on pointy end of the spear. Semi-annual or quarterly for folks that are armed based MOS/AFSC/NEC as MSgt Copeland stated.
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It may not be this way in other units, but the one I'm in seems to be very poorly trained on marksmanship and battle drills.
In the past I have seen some Soldiers struggle with qualifying at the range, and not very much training to correct/fix the issue. Sure we have a PMI before our ranges, but they go more along the lines of proper use and safety, and not so much into individual marksmanship.
As far as fighting(battle drills, Warrior tasks, etc.), we really don't see too much of it here either. We rarely ever go to the field, and most of the emphasis seems to be on Aviation related training, which you can't escape as I'm in a CAB. But any kind of ground combat training seems to fall to the wayside. However perhaps this will change in the future, as we are supposed to be going to the field more frequently.
In the past I have seen some Soldiers struggle with qualifying at the range, and not very much training to correct/fix the issue. Sure we have a PMI before our ranges, but they go more along the lines of proper use and safety, and not so much into individual marksmanship.
As far as fighting(battle drills, Warrior tasks, etc.), we really don't see too much of it here either. We rarely ever go to the field, and most of the emphasis seems to be on Aviation related training, which you can't escape as I'm in a CAB. But any kind of ground combat training seems to fall to the wayside. However perhaps this will change in the future, as we are supposed to be going to the field more frequently.
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Personally, I believe we teach "communication" the worst, even though people voted it the most important skill.
Most people do not know how to "tailor" information into a format that is brief, concise, and clear, to its intended audience. Additionally, the amount of time we spend repeating the same information is just plain staggering. The fact that we use "ad nauseum" as common vernacular highlights this.
Generally speaking, we teach people how to plan, and with that brainstorm. Critical thinking skills are encouraged, and even fostered. The application of Force (Shooting/Fighting) is a well documented skill. Moving, whether the mobilization of troops, equipment, or supplies is what makes us a military to be reckoned with. We can be anywhere in the world FAST.
But talking to each other. Or more importantly, talking to larger groups of each other... we still have issues.
There is an old phrase we use "Any means of communication will be used as a means of communication" which is a testament to our failures in this discipline. We just expect comms to go down. We plan for them to go nuts. So we over plan, we over train, and we don't rely on it. Luckily we don't have to because of the amount of time we spend on everything else... but...
It could use work.
Most people do not know how to "tailor" information into a format that is brief, concise, and clear, to its intended audience. Additionally, the amount of time we spend repeating the same information is just plain staggering. The fact that we use "ad nauseum" as common vernacular highlights this.
Generally speaking, we teach people how to plan, and with that brainstorm. Critical thinking skills are encouraged, and even fostered. The application of Force (Shooting/Fighting) is a well documented skill. Moving, whether the mobilization of troops, equipment, or supplies is what makes us a military to be reckoned with. We can be anywhere in the world FAST.
But talking to each other. Or more importantly, talking to larger groups of each other... we still have issues.
There is an old phrase we use "Any means of communication will be used as a means of communication" which is a testament to our failures in this discipline. We just expect comms to go down. We plan for them to go nuts. So we over plan, we over train, and we don't rely on it. Luckily we don't have to because of the amount of time we spend on everything else... but...
It could use work.
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Capt Richard I P.
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS So I agree that in terms of communication as a concept we have a weakness. In specific terms of technology I would say we are superior to all other militaries. Actually, as in my post, we're better than all of them at everything, but we aren't up to our own standards. Anyway. Planning for comm to go down and having Primary Alternate Contingency and Emergency, to me doesn't reflect a weakness in our comms, but wisdom in our planning guidance.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Capt Richard I P. Technologically, we are by far superior. However, as you said "we aren't up to our own standards."
Let us take shooting for example.
The M16 has a maximum effective range of 600~ meters against a point targets. Marines train to 500, and many, if not most can hit it 75% of the time. We're trained up to the standard of the weapon, and many of us can "outperform the tool."
When it comes to our communication tools, we're just not in the same ballpark. Proper Communication is about conveying the correct information, whether voice, data, etc. it's also about clarity & brevity. We have a problem with those more than we do with the tools.
We're great at planning. We know how to account for things going wrong, but do we know how to avoid giving the wrong set of information ("Why are we talking about this?" & "no one cares about this"), confusing information (change 13, and "what the hell is he talking about?"), and too much information ("We've got this!")?
Let us take shooting for example.
The M16 has a maximum effective range of 600~ meters against a point targets. Marines train to 500, and many, if not most can hit it 75% of the time. We're trained up to the standard of the weapon, and many of us can "outperform the tool."
When it comes to our communication tools, we're just not in the same ballpark. Proper Communication is about conveying the correct information, whether voice, data, etc. it's also about clarity & brevity. We have a problem with those more than we do with the tools.
We're great at planning. We know how to account for things going wrong, but do we know how to avoid giving the wrong set of information ("Why are we talking about this?" & "no one cares about this"), confusing information (change 13, and "what the hell is he talking about?"), and too much information ("We've got this!")?
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To be specific, pistol shooting (at least in my time). The first time I picked up a pistol was on the range to qualify. We were given a brief lesson about the Colt 1911 .45, field stripped it, reassembled it, and fired for qualification. It's the only time I failed with a weapon.
Although I had fired thousands of rounds of small bore rifle (.22 plinking) and shotgun (trap and skeet) before entering the service, and qualified expert on the M14 without difficulty, my pistol and revolver experience was limited to a half dozen rounds.
I purchased a .45 from another officer before he DEROS'd and carried it in Vietnam. I'm convinced it was captured by the VC and thrown back as unfit for use. The barrel wobbled inside the slide. However, I came up with a box of .45 tracers and used it like a primitive laser pointer (saving the last round to blow my brains out rather than risk capture).
In Hawaii, I was sent to the range to "requalify" on the .45. I think they found the one I left in Vietnam and saved it for this purpose.
I remember the colonel next to me who completely missed the target 21 times with the rounds he fired, and four more times with the pistol and three clips he threw at the target.
Fortunately, one of my sergeants has spent time on the Army pistol team and took me to Schofield Barracks one day to shoot with his buddies who were visiting there on their way to a competition. I was loathe to shoot with them, but finally hit the target with some regularity after being properly trained by them.
I see film and photos of most soldiers carrying sidearms these days. I hope they are better trained with them than we were...
Although I had fired thousands of rounds of small bore rifle (.22 plinking) and shotgun (trap and skeet) before entering the service, and qualified expert on the M14 without difficulty, my pistol and revolver experience was limited to a half dozen rounds.
I purchased a .45 from another officer before he DEROS'd and carried it in Vietnam. I'm convinced it was captured by the VC and thrown back as unfit for use. The barrel wobbled inside the slide. However, I came up with a box of .45 tracers and used it like a primitive laser pointer (saving the last round to blow my brains out rather than risk capture).
In Hawaii, I was sent to the range to "requalify" on the .45. I think they found the one I left in Vietnam and saved it for this purpose.
I remember the colonel next to me who completely missed the target 21 times with the rounds he fired, and four more times with the pistol and three clips he threw at the target.
Fortunately, one of my sergeants has spent time on the Army pistol team and took me to Schofield Barracks one day to shoot with his buddies who were visiting there on their way to a competition. I was loathe to shoot with them, but finally hit the target with some regularity after being properly trained by them.
I see film and photos of most soldiers carrying sidearms these days. I hope they are better trained with them than we were...
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SGT Bryon Sergent
Not to much better. We go through BMI(basic marksmanship Instruction) and PMI.(primary Marksmanship Instruction) Basically the same as you said. How to strip it, clean it and a little about how to shoot it. It then falls on you to shoot. I have seen the worst of the bunch. When you try and help them shoot better. They don't want to listen. They have their way of shooting and WON'T change. Yet their way doesn't hit the target.
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SGT Patrick Soule
.45 is my all time, any time, all the time weapon. 24/7 its on me or within hands reach. I pay for 40hrs training a year with it as well as dryfire daily.
During my service, the US Army pistol team was looking for members and came to Ft. Lewis, WA. All units who had members who were Expert qual with the pistol were required to send at least one of them. The team supplied the ammo. This was during the transition tween .45 to 9mm. It was great fun, and I learned quite alot watching the Team demonstrate each stage we were to shoot. I had never practiced any of the items they showed, but they were easy to recreate. The one major item that stuck was 'don't rush, slow is ok because slow is smooth and smooth is fast'.
When I was awarded Expert with a pistol prior to the above event, I was amazed at how easy the pistol course with the pop up targets was. I could not understand how anyone could not score expert. While shooting the stages with the Team, I consitantly scored high, but not to the level the team was looking for as a minimum. Two Team members did comment that they were suprised at my consistancy as the .45 issued me from the arms room was quite sloppy. They postulated I would have been above the cut off had I had a tight weapon, but the program did not allow for that. I still valued that training regardless.
During my service, the US Army pistol team was looking for members and came to Ft. Lewis, WA. All units who had members who were Expert qual with the pistol were required to send at least one of them. The team supplied the ammo. This was during the transition tween .45 to 9mm. It was great fun, and I learned quite alot watching the Team demonstrate each stage we were to shoot. I had never practiced any of the items they showed, but they were easy to recreate. The one major item that stuck was 'don't rush, slow is ok because slow is smooth and smooth is fast'.
When I was awarded Expert with a pistol prior to the above event, I was amazed at how easy the pistol course with the pop up targets was. I could not understand how anyone could not score expert. While shooting the stages with the Team, I consitantly scored high, but not to the level the team was looking for as a minimum. Two Team members did comment that they were suprised at my consistancy as the .45 issued me from the arms room was quite sloppy. They postulated I would have been above the cut off had I had a tight weapon, but the program did not allow for that. I still valued that training regardless.
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Map reading is the skill that is either not taught well or at all. We don't realize the importance of it until it is needed and you wind up lost. The Army is also horrible at teaching communication skills. Actually, I take that back, we teach communication, but we do not practice what we teach.
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1SG (Join to see)
I would have responded earlier, but I was too busy using Google Maps app to navigate my land nav course.
In all seriousness, I have found that land nav as a whole is largely ignored, or glossed over in units and most of the training only occurs during TRADOC schooling. Maybe it is better for the Active Components
In all seriousness, I have found that land nav as a whole is largely ignored, or glossed over in units and most of the training only occurs during TRADOC schooling. Maybe it is better for the Active Components
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SGT Patrick Soule
I have to agree Jay. I remember that the only time I had any instruction in land navigation was a few hours in PLDC and even then I only made it to the destination because I have a natural ability to determine north and determine distance over ground as I move. I kept thinking during the classroom lecture 'why don't we conduct this class outside with hands on demonstrations'?
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