Posted on Aug 10, 2014
Who do you think is responsible for our failure in Iraq?
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Strategically, who do you think the blame falls with? Is it Paul Bremer, GWB, or do you blame some of the senior leaders for screwing OIF up?
Not trying start a debate here, but it's obvious that this war was mishandled and strategically screwed up ... and if you need proof, just look at what ISIS is doing.
Thoughts?
Not trying start a debate here, but it's obvious that this war was mishandled and strategically screwed up ... and if you need proof, just look at what ISIS is doing.
Thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 199
Let me be annoying for a second and just ask for clarification. Do you mean OEF as in Afghanistan or do you mean Iraq which is OIF or OND?
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CPT (Join to see)
I screwed up. I meant OIF and thanks for correcting me. Was trying to do 3 different things at once :)
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SSG Robert Burns
Hey that's what I'm here for! Now to answer your question...I don't know about that. My NCOER says I was successful.
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What makes you think we failed in Iraq? We did not fail in Iraq! The administration failed to listen to the advice of the outgoing administration and did not leave a contingency force. The Obama administration failed in Iraq after our military victory. The president allowed politics and his personal feelings to outweigh good judgment, therefore, created a vacuum in the region that was filled by al Kaida and insurgents from Iran.
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I think W made a mistake when he ordered the invasion of Iraq. His reasons have since been vindicated as WMDs have been found. After all, we knew they were there because we sold them to Saddam. W's daddy made a wise decision by not invading when Kuwait was liberated. He clipped Saddam's wings, but did not destroy the balance of power in the region. Taking down Saddam gave Iran a free reign to conduct their terror. The current situation however, is the fault of obama. Pulling out all troops opened the door for ISIS and the subsequent slaughter of thousands of Christians. Our government never learns. Some countries do not thrive under democracy and Iraq is one of those countries.
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SGT James Isenhour
Well I totally agree from my experience those that live in the region (Middle East) only seem to respond to dictators in power who are quite ruthless. Makes the really really bad guys know that when a dictator is in charge if the rear their heads he will just cut them off. Thereby causing there to be stability in the region Saddam Hussein was a bad guy and his sons Were also bad men. But they kept control away from the crazies. And ultimately Cause there to be stability in the region. With that being said Obama is just another idealistic lib who thinks the world is one way because they want it to be a happy and peaceful place peaceful. His pull out caused the loss of so meny gains that were paid for with out blood to be lossed. (Sorry for the long rant). Ike
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SSG William Patton
You are correct. All the blood that was shed and the lives that were lost was for naught. All obozo succeeded in doing was allowing another group of dictatiors replace Saddam, but have done nothing to achieve peace in the region. It is worse now than before Saddam was taken down.
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I think there is a lot of blame to go around. When Powell was making statements like "if you break it, you buy it" there were administration officials with no combat experience saying Vietnam made him weak. Rumsfeld said "you go to war with the Army you have and not the Army you want" and just wanted to show how "shock and awe" was the new way to fight wars. We had no plan beyond "mission accomplished" other than collecting the roses and money the newly freed Iraqis threw at us. And like in many other places we put people in power who weren't the best option for their country but were most likely to follow our lead. We tend to try and prop up governments doomed to eventually fail to get our way. We did it with Saddam, Iran, Vietnam,...
I think the overall problem in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam is that they are a lot more patient than we are. Vietnam had been fighting with France and knew they we would quit eventually. They knew the same when we entered. Same in Iraq and Afghanistan. They play the long game and we go all in on the first hand. Actually we don't even go all in anymore because we fight wars politically. When we were bombing Germany we were doing what we had to do to win. Same with using atomic bombs on Japan. The options we gave were surrender or be annihilated and not please don't make us shoot you. You go to war to crush the enemies will to fight and not just for the time period of war, but forever.
I think in the Muslim countries, Somalia showed that there was a level of loss beyond which we will no longer support the mission. And pulling out reinforced for many that we had weak stomachs at home. We also add in that most of the countries have borders defined by western governments not base on anything other than what benefited their own interests (resources) at that time and many decision makers have no understanding of other cultures.
I think now I am just rambling :-)
I think the overall problem in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam is that they are a lot more patient than we are. Vietnam had been fighting with France and knew they we would quit eventually. They knew the same when we entered. Same in Iraq and Afghanistan. They play the long game and we go all in on the first hand. Actually we don't even go all in anymore because we fight wars politically. When we were bombing Germany we were doing what we had to do to win. Same with using atomic bombs on Japan. The options we gave were surrender or be annihilated and not please don't make us shoot you. You go to war to crush the enemies will to fight and not just for the time period of war, but forever.
I think in the Muslim countries, Somalia showed that there was a level of loss beyond which we will no longer support the mission. And pulling out reinforced for many that we had weak stomachs at home. We also add in that most of the countries have borders defined by western governments not base on anything other than what benefited their own interests (resources) at that time and many decision makers have no understanding of other cultures.
I think now I am just rambling :-)
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CPT (Join to see), "Not trying to start a debate ..."
Sorry, sir, but you are trying to start a debate, or at least win one that you fashioned. From your post, "failure", "screwing OIF up", "blame falls with", "obvious", "mishandled" ...
Which doesn't mean I don't think there were failures, blame, and mishandling aplenty.
1) Failure to recognize the extent to which we allowed Iraqi politicians to play politics and line their pockets with money rather than get on with the job of building a stable country. (Applies to Afghan politicians as well.)
2) Failure to capitalize on what we have in common, rather than emphasizing our differences. (Specifically I'm referring to allowing our enemies to set the debate about religion without any reasonable response.)
3) Failure to set a policy covering collateral damage. The opposition has continued the policy of using and causing civilian casualties and blaming us for it. We need to drop a billion leaflets on Iraq and Afghanistan (with collateral coverage of Iran) showing the following:
Here is a terrorist. He kills people.
Here is a US bomb dropping on the terrorist's head.
If you stand next to a terrorist, especially one riding in a captured US vehicle, you may die when we drop a bomb on his head.
If you choose to stand so, your death is YOUR fault, not ours. We do not want to kill anyone, not even terrorists, but if we need to stop him, we aren't going to let you being in the way stop us.
We do not want your family to mourn you loss, so when you see a terrorist, move away from him as quickly as possible.
4) Failure to prosecute, seize, confiscate, or whatever, the illegally gained money of those who were paid for projects but did not deliver them.
5) Failure to support those who aided us, whether by money, security, or immigration. Every time we cut the legs off from someone who supported us, we make it that much harder to gain support next time.
And who do I assign the lion's share of this blame to? The American people and the two-party system of government we are saddled with. (We need a viable third party so we can avoid the intentional gridlock between the two major parties.) We cannot manage to get politicians with limited to no military knowledge out of military operations. We cannot seem to remember that no politician will support any policy that might keep him from getting re-elected. So we vacillate, double-talk, countermand, meddle, interfere, and make poor long-term decisions.
Sorry, sir, but you are trying to start a debate, or at least win one that you fashioned. From your post, "failure", "screwing OIF up", "blame falls with", "obvious", "mishandled" ...
Which doesn't mean I don't think there were failures, blame, and mishandling aplenty.
1) Failure to recognize the extent to which we allowed Iraqi politicians to play politics and line their pockets with money rather than get on with the job of building a stable country. (Applies to Afghan politicians as well.)
2) Failure to capitalize on what we have in common, rather than emphasizing our differences. (Specifically I'm referring to allowing our enemies to set the debate about religion without any reasonable response.)
3) Failure to set a policy covering collateral damage. The opposition has continued the policy of using and causing civilian casualties and blaming us for it. We need to drop a billion leaflets on Iraq and Afghanistan (with collateral coverage of Iran) showing the following:
Here is a terrorist. He kills people.
Here is a US bomb dropping on the terrorist's head.
If you stand next to a terrorist, especially one riding in a captured US vehicle, you may die when we drop a bomb on his head.
If you choose to stand so, your death is YOUR fault, not ours. We do not want to kill anyone, not even terrorists, but if we need to stop him, we aren't going to let you being in the way stop us.
We do not want your family to mourn you loss, so when you see a terrorist, move away from him as quickly as possible.
4) Failure to prosecute, seize, confiscate, or whatever, the illegally gained money of those who were paid for projects but did not deliver them.
5) Failure to support those who aided us, whether by money, security, or immigration. Every time we cut the legs off from someone who supported us, we make it that much harder to gain support next time.
And who do I assign the lion's share of this blame to? The American people and the two-party system of government we are saddled with. (We need a viable third party so we can avoid the intentional gridlock between the two major parties.) We cannot manage to get politicians with limited to no military knowledge out of military operations. We cannot seem to remember that no politician will support any policy that might keep him from getting re-elected. So we vacillate, double-talk, countermand, meddle, interfere, and make poor long-term decisions.
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Maj Mike Sciales
But remember -- we immediately disbanded the Army to kick out all the Ba'ath party loyalists (a very secular bunch) and replaced them with untrained Shi'ia because they weren't Sunni. Then we didn't pull the Iraqi Dinar from circulation, allowing those well trained Ba'ath party folks to finance their reorganization as insurgents. We have many "self-inflicted gunshot wounds" from our appalling ignorance of the cultural dynamics. Innocent people are paying daily for our mistakes. Our short-sighted political "leaders" like Coni Rice & Paul Bremer created Daesh, we need to acknowledge their participation and creation for this mess, not to blame them per se for their folly -- but to identify failed policies and mindsets to not repeat this awful mistake. I'll be clear. The Military forces did not FAIL in Iraq. State Dept saw the Marshall Plan for Iraq. Ignorance, greed and corruption made this Reconstruction effort look even worse than US Reconstruction in the South after the Civil War.
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If the people who say the U.S. military failed in Iraq, were around in 1941---we'd be speaking Japanese right now. The U.S. military has never failed in any mission they've ever been given----The Washington lawyers are the ones that screw up things--- by making decisions and introducing policies' that favor their political agendas first---at the expense of the peoples we liberate.---- In my humble opinion the news services are no better and seem to promote this type of behavior ----Regrettably, the days of Walter Cronkite and Edward R Murrow are long gone.
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We left the GOI with the best chance of success that we could provide. They had to/have to want it more than than we do. Our desires and dreams can't fix their lack of desire. Unfortunately, many times our war aims are different, or at odds, with what the nation we are supporting really wants.
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SSG Mike Angelo
hence, broken vision. In our western culture, vision comes before strategy, comes before plans and operations, comes before specific tasks of work to be done....vision is top down in the western sense of democratic behavioral norms. In contrast, Eastern orthodox and faith base arab culture, vision can come from anywhere, any class of people, and not just the status quo heads of parliamentary, political, or military heads.
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Politicians. Military folks know how to win wars. Politicians know nothing about either winning wars, or winning peace. They are truly just here for the money.
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SCPO Ken Badoian
When we turned over the running of the country to the State Department and when we stood down the regular Iraqi Army the seeds for failure were sown.
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PO1 Aaron Baltosser
The State Department is not known for being particularly successful for running countries. Giving them a hand on the tiller was a very poor judgment call.
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SGT Kenneth Duncan
We still have military in Japan, Korea and Germany and those wars were how long ago? Does the question really have to be asked?
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We didn't fail in Iraq. The Iraqi's failed, not the United States. We failed to keep an eye on a country we liberated, in that we should have kept a monitoring force but Obama was too interested in claiming bragging rights. He wanted the money from the war to offset Obamacare. Makes you wonder since we are back in Iraq and spending money, where is he getting the money for Obamacare?
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SSgt James Connolly
It is the political leaders in DC that listen to all the cry babies that it is cruel and inhumane to kill someone. Just as soon as they pull the USMC back all wars go to hell.If you let the Marine Corps do the job you sent them to do you would never have any problems. Get rid of politics in the Corps and the ring knockers from your Acadamy's you would have battle hardened troops who would kick ass and not take names. The Marine Corps never left a job unfinished they always followed orders, but everyone interpets them differently.
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