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From the "NY Times"
All Politicians Lie. Some Lie More Than Others.
Washington — I’m a political fact-checker, which is usually an automatic conversation starter at parties. These days, I get two questions repeatedly: “Is it worse than it’s ever been?” and “What’s up with Donald Trump?”
I’ve been fact-checking since 2007, when The Tampa Bay Times founded PolitiFact as a new way to cover elections. We don’t check absolutely everything a candidate says, but focus on what catches our eye as significant, newsworthy or potentially influential. Our ratings are also not intended to be statistically representative but to show trends over time.
Donald J. Trump’s record on truth and accuracy is astonishingly poor. So far, we’ve fact-checked more than 70 Trump statements and rated fully three-quarters of them as Mostly False, False or “Pants on Fire” (we reserve this last designation for a claim that is not only inaccurate but also ridiculous). We haven’t checked the former neurosurgeon Ben Carson as often as Mr. Trump, but by the percentages Mr. Carson actually fares worse.
Carly Fiorina, another candidate in the Republican race who’s never held elective office, does slightly better on the Truth-O-Meter (which I sometimes feel the need to remind people is not an actual scientific instrument): Half of the statements we’ve checked have proved Mostly False or worse.
Most of the professional politicians we fact-check ...
EDITORIAL COMMENT:- Of course it's from the NY Times so it all has to be lies - right?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/opinion/campaign-stops/all-politicians-lie-some-lie-more-than-others.html?_r=0
All Politicians Lie. Some Lie More Than Others.
Washington — I’m a political fact-checker, which is usually an automatic conversation starter at parties. These days, I get two questions repeatedly: “Is it worse than it’s ever been?” and “What’s up with Donald Trump?”
I’ve been fact-checking since 2007, when The Tampa Bay Times founded PolitiFact as a new way to cover elections. We don’t check absolutely everything a candidate says, but focus on what catches our eye as significant, newsworthy or potentially influential. Our ratings are also not intended to be statistically representative but to show trends over time.
Donald J. Trump’s record on truth and accuracy is astonishingly poor. So far, we’ve fact-checked more than 70 Trump statements and rated fully three-quarters of them as Mostly False, False or “Pants on Fire” (we reserve this last designation for a claim that is not only inaccurate but also ridiculous). We haven’t checked the former neurosurgeon Ben Carson as often as Mr. Trump, but by the percentages Mr. Carson actually fares worse.
Carly Fiorina, another candidate in the Republican race who’s never held elective office, does slightly better on the Truth-O-Meter (which I sometimes feel the need to remind people is not an actual scientific instrument): Half of the statements we’ve checked have proved Mostly False or worse.
Most of the professional politicians we fact-check ...
EDITORIAL COMMENT:- Of course it's from the NY Times so it all has to be lies - right?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/opinion/campaign-stops/all-politicians-lie-some-lie-more-than-others.html?_r=0
Posted in these groups: 
Politics
Politics
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 24
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I think someone needs to be checking the checkers? Lately, it seem the checkers are bigger liars than the 'facts' they are checking. It is amazing to me how the fact checkers can be so moved by bias. Facts should be facts, and this has not been the case but this does not really surprise me with politicians and the current batch of reporters.
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MSgt James Mullis
The problem comes when the "fact checkers" view everything through their own political bias and opinion. When making graphs like with percentages like the one in the editorial it's easy to come up with any data set you want by simply choosing what statements to "fact check" for each politician.
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This report should win some sort of an award. I have never seen bias so accurately charted before.
Take, for example, the fact that Bill Clinton leads in truthfulness. Really? This is the President who had to surrender his license to practice law as a condition of his admission of perjury.
Many have fallen into the trap of ranking truthfulness using the criteria of their ideological bias. Most famous among these is Snopes.com. The truth is that most "truths" are subjective and the author of this report exposes their criteria for determining truth based on their own ideology. (Did you notice how all of the democrats are gathered together in the ranks of the More/Most honest. What does that tell you?)
The "truth" is that most politician's lies are misstatements of fact based on ignorance. Almost all make promises to get elected, promises that will not be deliverable even if they are elected. In other words, they don't have a clue as to the duties and responsibilities of the office which they seek. (This is why fledgling members of Congress are offered a course in legislation before they are sworn in) Statements of intent are then interpreted as lies when the politician fails to deliver.
However, when you come right down to it, "What difference does it make?" (So says the person currently under investigation for lying and ranked among the most truthful in this report)
Need I say more?
Take, for example, the fact that Bill Clinton leads in truthfulness. Really? This is the President who had to surrender his license to practice law as a condition of his admission of perjury.
Many have fallen into the trap of ranking truthfulness using the criteria of their ideological bias. Most famous among these is Snopes.com. The truth is that most "truths" are subjective and the author of this report exposes their criteria for determining truth based on their own ideology. (Did you notice how all of the democrats are gathered together in the ranks of the More/Most honest. What does that tell you?)
The "truth" is that most politician's lies are misstatements of fact based on ignorance. Almost all make promises to get elected, promises that will not be deliverable even if they are elected. In other words, they don't have a clue as to the duties and responsibilities of the office which they seek. (This is why fledgling members of Congress are offered a course in legislation before they are sworn in) Statements of intent are then interpreted as lies when the politician fails to deliver.
However, when you come right down to it, "What difference does it make?" (So says the person currently under investigation for lying and ranked among the most truthful in this report)
Need I say more?
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CPT Jack Durish
COL Ted Mc - I am no fan of Donald Trump. Indeed, I fear that like Ross Perot he will likely insure that someone truly vile will end up in the White House (and I don't mean him although he would likely also be vile as President). I don't know why I have to lead with that comment inasmuch as my original response in no way defended Donald Trump. I attacked the article as biased for very good reasons (already stated and no needing repetition here). I merely want others to not me misled by your response into thinking that I was in any way defending Trump. That would detract from the import of my message.
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COL Ted Mc
CPT Jack Durish - Captain; "Any man who wants to be president is either an egomaniac or crazy." - Dwight D. Eisenhower
President Eisenhower was probably the last of the "Executive Presidents" (as opposed to "Political Presidents") that the US is likely to see for a long time.
That whirring sound that you hear is the Founding Fathers spinning in their graves.
President Eisenhower was probably the last of the "Executive Presidents" (as opposed to "Political Presidents") that the US is likely to see for a long time.
That whirring sound that you hear is the Founding Fathers spinning in their graves.
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CPT Jack Durish
COL Ted Mc - ...which is why I have often quipped that the only person I want as President is the one We the People have to drag kicking and screaming to the White House and lock him inside.
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COL Ted Mc
CPT Jack Durish - Captain; The only people that you actually want as President simply won't run for the job because they don't need the personal grief that the other side's campaign will inject into their lives.
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This article is either biased towards the left, or fails to account for the signicance of the lies, especially regarding Hillary Clinton.
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
Yes please cite the Lie Hillary said and cite your source of your "Fact" I am always ready to be swayed by Facts.
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Col Joseph Lenertz
She claimed she landed under sniper fire in Bosnia. Only when proven false by video did she retract her statement.
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LOL. All Media lie. Some lie more than others. According to the NYT, Hillary Clinton is the most truthful politician since Gandhi!
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SPC(P) (Join to see)
LTC Bink Romanick Sir, I came across this interview today where Dr. Carson addresses the Pyramid issue (among other criticisms), and wanted to share it with you.
https://www.facebook.com/BenCarsonNOW/videos/ [login to see] 67938/
https://www.facebook.com/BenCarsonNOW/videos/ [login to see] 67938/
Ben Carson NOW - Ben Carson On Muslim ‘No-Go’ Areas, I.S.... | Facebook
Ben Carson On Muslim ‘No-Go’ Areas, I.S. Threat And Climate Change.#CARSON2016
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LTC Bink Romanick
SPC(P) (Join to see) Col Joseph Lenertz
I went to school in MN. There is no credible evidence of a Chinese presence in Syria. Ben Carson is shrinking in the polls he won't be a speck on the radar in two or three months he's proved to be simply a common idiot savant, like the Rain Man.
I went to school in MN. There is no credible evidence of a Chinese presence in Syria. Ben Carson is shrinking in the polls he won't be a speck on the radar in two or three months he's proved to be simply a common idiot savant, like the Rain Man.
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Col Joseph Lenertz
Yeah, I think we're talking past each other on the China bit...while I was supporting a linkage/interest in Syria by China, you were referring to boots on the ground Chinese presence in Syria. So, both our positions may be correct. As to Ben Carson, I wish I were as amazingly smart as he is. Which candidate is your favorite, and why?
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SPC(P) (Join to see)
Ben also never once claimed Chinese troops in Syria. The media drew that conclusion from him saying they were involved in the Syrian crisis
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None of the above.
The word "honest" should never be used in the same sentence with "politician" or "media".
They all have their own agenda, outright lie and distort facts and half-truths to benefit said agenda.
The word "honest" should never be used in the same sentence with "politician" or "media".
They all have their own agenda, outright lie and distort facts and half-truths to benefit said agenda.
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COL Ted Mc
PO1 Brian Austin - PO; I believe that whatever party the politician belongs to their agenda starts with "Get elected/re-elected." and then carries on from there.
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If you can find a "honest" politician, you need to vote them in for life. If you can find a honest and non biased reporter, you need to hire them with tenure for life. But no matter what, I definitely get laughs when looking at ol Bills show. You can count on him having someone from either side of the spectrum.....either batsh*t crazy, or so intelligent and knowledgeable Bill has to keep changing the subject to get somewhere he can yell at them for. He's about the only thing good on Faux News.
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It seems to me, the conservatives don't trust independent fact checkers if it doesn't agree with their view and they must have a liberal bias.
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COL Ted Mc
Sgt Nick Marshall - Sergeant; You are correct, but you should also add in "the liberals don't trust independent fact checkers if it doesn't agree with their view and they must have a conservative bias".
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Sgt Nick Marshall
Where (or can) we find independent non biased fact checkers? I rarely watch the US news, I watch the BBC and CBC, unbiased. US media outlets play to an audience for ratings, not news as much.
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COL Ted Mc
Sgt Nick Marshall - Sergeant; That would depend on your definition of "non-biased".
Both the BBC and the CBC have their own biases, but they do tend to apply them less strongly to news from outside their own countries.
Because I have the time to do so, I like to read the news from sources with a variety of biases and then sort out how close to the middle of the reports reality actually lies.
It might surprise you to know that the "Christian Science Monitor" has an excellent international reputation and is (on most topics) as close to "political bias free" as you are likely to get.
Remember, EVERYONE has a "bias" - it's just that we call those which agree with ours "informed opinions".
Both the BBC and the CBC have their own biases, but they do tend to apply them less strongly to news from outside their own countries.
Because I have the time to do so, I like to read the news from sources with a variety of biases and then sort out how close to the middle of the reports reality actually lies.
It might surprise you to know that the "Christian Science Monitor" has an excellent international reputation and is (on most topics) as close to "political bias free" as you are likely to get.
Remember, EVERYONE has a "bias" - it's just that we call those which agree with ours "informed opinions".
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Sgt Nick Marshall
I had a Subscription to the CSM at one time and I agree, I look forward to getting the Economist every week, probably my favorite news source, but many main-stream Americans haven't heard of it, and it's a bit pricey.
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Let's throw President Lincoln in the mix:
"I know as fully as one can know the opinions of others, that some of the commanders of our armies in the field who have given us our most important successes, believe the emancipation policy, and the use of colored troops, constitute the heaviest blow yet dealt to the rebellion; and that, at least one of those important successes, could not have been achieved when it was, but for the aid of black soldiers. Among the commanders holding these views are some who have never had any affinity with what is called abolitionism, or with republican party politics; but who hold them purely as military opinions."
I don't believe this was true when Lincoln wrote it in August, 1863. The attack on Battery Wagner was 7/18/63, but that was a failure.
Another segment of this fabulous public letter to James Conkling:
"Peace does not appear so distant as it did. I hope it will come soon, and come to stay; and so come as to be worth the keeping in all future time. It will then have been proved that, among free men, there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and that they who take such appeal are sure to lose their case, and pay the cost. And then, there will be some black men who can remember that, with silent tongue, and clenched teeth, and steady eye, and well-poised bayonet, they have helped mankind on to this great consummation; while, I fear, there will be some white ones, unable to forget that, with malignant heart, and deceitful speech, they have strove to hinder it."
http://millercenter.org/president/lincoln/speeches/speech-3510
Don't fail to read this letter. it is really special.
Walt
"I know as fully as one can know the opinions of others, that some of the commanders of our armies in the field who have given us our most important successes, believe the emancipation policy, and the use of colored troops, constitute the heaviest blow yet dealt to the rebellion; and that, at least one of those important successes, could not have been achieved when it was, but for the aid of black soldiers. Among the commanders holding these views are some who have never had any affinity with what is called abolitionism, or with republican party politics; but who hold them purely as military opinions."
I don't believe this was true when Lincoln wrote it in August, 1863. The attack on Battery Wagner was 7/18/63, but that was a failure.
Another segment of this fabulous public letter to James Conkling:
"Peace does not appear so distant as it did. I hope it will come soon, and come to stay; and so come as to be worth the keeping in all future time. It will then have been proved that, among free men, there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and that they who take such appeal are sure to lose their case, and pay the cost. And then, there will be some black men who can remember that, with silent tongue, and clenched teeth, and steady eye, and well-poised bayonet, they have helped mankind on to this great consummation; while, I fear, there will be some white ones, unable to forget that, with malignant heart, and deceitful speech, they have strove to hinder it."
http://millercenter.org/president/lincoln/speeches/speech-3510
Don't fail to read this letter. it is really special.
Walt
Public Letter to James Conkling (August 26, 1863)—Miller Center
President Lincoln wrote this letter to his friend James Conkling, and it is read at a rally in Springfield, Illinois, supporting the Union. In this letter, the President vigorously defends his Emancipation Proclamation.
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SecNav Webb resigned under protest in 1989 because the SecDef asked him basically to lie to the Congress.
Walt
Walt
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