Posted on Apr 19, 2017
Why are officers recognized with awards more than enlisted?
266K
3.88K
1.19K
453
453
0
It seems to me that officers are recogized far more often then enlisted soldiers. I mean an officer and junior enlisted could do the same exact thing, or an enlisted could do more then an officer and chances are the officer will be given a higher award. Why? I have been in for almost 8 years and only have 1 AAM which is my only actual award.
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 568
Man, there are a LOT of officers responding with their thoughts on why the enlisted ranks don't get the amount or level of awards that officers get.
And most of these answers are hilarious. But only because I'm a RETIRED MSG and it doesn't matter to me anymore.
There is an unwritten law in the Army that the higher the rank you are, the higher the award you get for doing a thing. and I am not whining, it really doesn't matter to this retired Soldier so I am speaking objectively.
I have been on the receiving end of not getting the award that an officer who did the same thing DID get, I have put in Soldiers for Awards and seen officers that I put in get upgraded while enlisted (especially lower enlisted) get downgraded for THE SAME ACTIONS.
And when I have mentioned these discrepancies, I have been told "that must just be your unit," "that's probably not what happened," or my favorite, "you don't understand the dynamics of what happens at higher levels."
I WAS the higher damned level. I ran a Batalion and a Brigade S2 Section. And I repeatedly watched as enlisted Soldiers got awarded lesser awards than officers, often for events in which the enlisted Soldier did something well beyond the officer's actions.
This is an Army-wide issue, and one that has been going on for decades. In 1993 as a Private I got an Certificate of Achievement for beating the best time on the "Green Hell" obstacle course in Fort Sherman Panama. My partner, a junior NCO, got an AAM. Later I found out that two officers, a 1st Lieutenant and a Captain, recieved ARCOMs for getting the "best time," which wasn't actually the best time but what translated to the "best time for a pair of officers," which they happened to leave off of the award citation.
In Iraq in 2009 I put a couple of Soldiers in for ARCOMs for their actions in the Intel field. I put our OIC in for an ARCOM as well, because I knew that putting him in for anything less would be a ska in the face that would cause all of my Soldiers' Awards to get slapped down. Our OIC had only been with us for bout a third of the deployment, prior to that we were without an OIC, having myself and one other NCO to run things. Our OIC was awarded a Bronze Star, and most of my Soldiers received AAMs.
I and most NCOs have long understood that the system is INCREDIBLY flawed, and that one just needs to Lee their teeth together and grind it out because the people who would CHANGE the flawed system are the same people who currently BENEFIT from the flawed system - namely, officers. and it's not ONLY officers; Senior NCOs are often given awards that are WILDLY out of proportion for the actions they have taken. Not too long ago a 1SG got an ARCOM for reporting Soldiers who were complaining ONLINE about their leadership. This, to me, says that her "trolling" of these Soldiers is equal in merit to the Army as my actions in COMBAT that merited an ARCOM. Which is, obviously, fucking RIDICULOUS.
I am not trying to offer any type of fix for this, I am simply stating the facts: officers (and to an extent senior NCOs) receive preferential treatment when it comes to awards. Anyone who tells you different is either delusional, bullshitting, or an officer who is trying to defend a flawed system.
And that's okay. My DD-214 is two pages long with all of the damned awards and decorations I received by being in the wrong place at the wrong time for the Army over three different decades, and I've found that once you're out not a single one of them matters.
So drive on, Airborne. Huaa?
And most of these answers are hilarious. But only because I'm a RETIRED MSG and it doesn't matter to me anymore.
There is an unwritten law in the Army that the higher the rank you are, the higher the award you get for doing a thing. and I am not whining, it really doesn't matter to this retired Soldier so I am speaking objectively.
I have been on the receiving end of not getting the award that an officer who did the same thing DID get, I have put in Soldiers for Awards and seen officers that I put in get upgraded while enlisted (especially lower enlisted) get downgraded for THE SAME ACTIONS.
And when I have mentioned these discrepancies, I have been told "that must just be your unit," "that's probably not what happened," or my favorite, "you don't understand the dynamics of what happens at higher levels."
I WAS the higher damned level. I ran a Batalion and a Brigade S2 Section. And I repeatedly watched as enlisted Soldiers got awarded lesser awards than officers, often for events in which the enlisted Soldier did something well beyond the officer's actions.
This is an Army-wide issue, and one that has been going on for decades. In 1993 as a Private I got an Certificate of Achievement for beating the best time on the "Green Hell" obstacle course in Fort Sherman Panama. My partner, a junior NCO, got an AAM. Later I found out that two officers, a 1st Lieutenant and a Captain, recieved ARCOMs for getting the "best time," which wasn't actually the best time but what translated to the "best time for a pair of officers," which they happened to leave off of the award citation.
In Iraq in 2009 I put a couple of Soldiers in for ARCOMs for their actions in the Intel field. I put our OIC in for an ARCOM as well, because I knew that putting him in for anything less would be a ska in the face that would cause all of my Soldiers' Awards to get slapped down. Our OIC had only been with us for bout a third of the deployment, prior to that we were without an OIC, having myself and one other NCO to run things. Our OIC was awarded a Bronze Star, and most of my Soldiers received AAMs.
I and most NCOs have long understood that the system is INCREDIBLY flawed, and that one just needs to Lee their teeth together and grind it out because the people who would CHANGE the flawed system are the same people who currently BENEFIT from the flawed system - namely, officers. and it's not ONLY officers; Senior NCOs are often given awards that are WILDLY out of proportion for the actions they have taken. Not too long ago a 1SG got an ARCOM for reporting Soldiers who were complaining ONLINE about their leadership. This, to me, says that her "trolling" of these Soldiers is equal in merit to the Army as my actions in COMBAT that merited an ARCOM. Which is, obviously, fucking RIDICULOUS.
I am not trying to offer any type of fix for this, I am simply stating the facts: officers (and to an extent senior NCOs) receive preferential treatment when it comes to awards. Anyone who tells you different is either delusional, bullshitting, or an officer who is trying to defend a flawed system.
And that's okay. My DD-214 is two pages long with all of the damned awards and decorations I received by being in the wrong place at the wrong time for the Army over three different decades, and I've found that once you're out not a single one of them matters.
So drive on, Airborne. Huaa?
(571)
(0)
PO1 (Join to see)
It's the same in the Navy and I'm sure it goes through all branches of service. The system is broke and has always been broke and will never be fixed.
(1)
(0)
SPC Kurt Sonnenburg
I appreciate your input. I only served 3 yrs active. I saw the award injustice the first year I served. Ironically, rcvd an ARCOM for a cold weather rotor head conversion, but wasn't told until the day I was lvng the base. To this day, I reflect and still believe I earned the damn award. But, hear is the thing. I wasn't reinlisting. I still believe that they hoped I would reinlist. Ulterior motivation for getting the award???
I can tell you this. It isn't any different on the civilian side. I could tell you so many stories... It's all about ass kissing, which I will NEVER do.
Well, I screwed so many times in my civilian life, it could become a book.
I can tell you this. It isn't any different on the civilian side. I could tell you so many stories... It's all about ass kissing, which I will NEVER do.
Well, I screwed so many times in my civilian life, it could become a book.
(0)
(0)
1SG Steven Malkowski
I find it ridiculous to see generals today with 10+ rows of ribbons. Eisenhower only had 3.
(1)
(0)
SGT Beth Day
As an E4, I had to fill in for an injured officer during an NTC deployment. A rather serious matter came up and I had to deal with it. My boss told me had the officer dealt with it, he would have been put in for an MSM. He said since there was no way an E4 would get that, he was trying hard for an ARCOM. It got downgraded to an AAM. Sigh.
(0)
(0)
A very reasonable question with a very simple answer. Junior officers, the ones in closet contact with enlisted personnel aren't very adept leaders. They are lucky to know how to do the simplest tasks of leadership let alone something sophisticated like recommending personnel for awards and decorations. Their immediate superiors aren't much better. However senior officers who are well aware of the significance that decorations can have on a military career rarely witness the accomplishments of the troops as individuals. What's the solution? If you witness an act of valor or a significant accomplishment that you feel is worthy of recognition, bring it to the attention of your immediate superior. Suggest a that they submit a recommendation for recognition if they're too dense to take the hint. Write it up yourself if you have to. Then hope that someone does the same for you when you deserve it. If anyone gives you trouble for following my advice, refer them to me.
(304)
(0)
PO1 Craig Anthony
My E-7 in the navy wrote several up for me during his tenure at our command, but all but one was downgraded. It was he and I in the division because of a backlog in personnel being assigned, we even had a to do a 6 month cruise in the Gulf of the coast of Iraq during the war, just the two of us standing watch. We shared the 24 hour watch and still had to perform maintenance and daily activities, which meant I had to take on duties of an E-7, while attended to division officer duties.
(1)
(0)
SSG Jack Simpson
I was always told that it is the NCO's job to train his officer. I recall having a butter bar LT at Ft. Bragg back in 76-79 first as our Plt Ldr then as unit supply officer. Both jobs he screwed up doing. On a couple of occasions, I remember an informal call to the 1st Sgts office to "explain why I hadn't trained my LT." At the time I had 12 years TIS and he had 2. He never made silver bar and was rifted. Did I fail my duty?
(1)
(0)
CPT Jack Durish
SSG Jack Simpson - Some are just untrainable. Well, most actually. Did you fail? Don't know, but apparently he did
(0)
(0)
SSG Jack Simpson
SGT Victoria Belbusti - I'm going to out myself here. In 20 yrs of service, I never received a medal when leaving a unit. My first unit was Stratcom, Strategic Communications Command Europe. I served with AFCENT NATO (Allied Forces Central Europe) Brunssum NL from 72-76. I was there during the Bicentennial. For my bye bye Award, I received a Pewter Coin the Commander STRATCOM had struck, 1 of 200 supposedly given to the best soldiers in the entire command. No certificate no promo points. My second unit, HHC 46th Spt Gp (CORPS) Ft. Bragg, I was given a plaque from my fellow NCO's, one of 5 ever given at the time, an honor I cherish but again, no Promo points. My official award fell through the cracks when the Signal Officer, a female Captain, got caught in the act with the COSCOM Cmdr. a Colonel. Both got relieved and transferred really fast. I ran into her in Bremerhaven Germany, and she asked me about the ARCOM she had started the paperwork on. It never got completed. My third Unit was the 97th Signal Bn (Constabulary), CENTCOM NATO in Mannheim FGR. I found out just before getting on the plane to come home in 80' that I was recommended for a NATO Award, but it got denied and no one did a U.S. award recommendation. My fourth unit, C company 311 MI Bn CEWI (ABN) Ft. Bragg. At the time I was there the Army was allowing E-7's the privilege to volunteer for six-month tours in South America as advisors. My PLT Sgt volunteered twice and that made me acting Plt Sgt. When I was Plt Sgt my plt won Plt of the month three times consecutively and Plt of the year just before the E-7 returned from his second tour. I then ran afoul of the Plt Sgt because I "showed him up". he and his friend the 1st Sgt made sure I paid for that. I went to ANOC and upon returning to the 311th found out I had been transferred to HHC 101st Abn BN Div Artillery as the COMSEC Custodian. I was with them for 6 months before being sent back to Germany. I was told that I hadn't served with them long enough to be recommended for an award. And in my 5th unit, 1st Bn,9th Field Artillery Bde (PERSHING) I messed myself up when I refused to take a special training related to the launching of the nuclear missiles because one of the launch options was a first strike option and I objected to that. I would later accept the training when the option was canceled. But the damage was done. 2 yrs and 8 months of shunning and retribution for my initial refusal. No award on leaving. And then I got my first Award ever for Desert Storm and retired shortly after returning to the U.S. again no award, and because the 1st Sgt "forgot" to put in a retirement ceremony request, no ceremony either. End of story.
(0)
(0)
Don't get wrapped around the axle on awards, sometimes there is not much rhyme or reason. Do you best always, I never worried about any awards. End of tour before PCS orders is a give away award in my book and does not occur that much in the Marine Corps. We also don't give promotion point for them either. Yes, looks nice on your uniform but you evals and performance are what count in my book. Semper fi and keep charging.
(214)
(0)
Sgt Dennis Peskey
I served with the 12th Mar Reg in the northern I corps from April '69 through Nov 69. For the first five months, I was assigned as the Field Artillery Operations Chief for the 12th Mar Reg at Division forward in Camp Vandergrift (aka, rocket valley). We got shelled every day by the NVA - hence it's nickname. I replaced an E-7 who gave me all of 30 minutes instruction on what the job entailed -clear all artillery fires and don't get any Marines (or other friendlies) killed in the process; twelve hours a day (and night) - eight days a week. During the assignment, I was subjected to five investigations of "friendly fire" incidents where we fired on our own troops. I was cleared of all responsibility for each of the incidents but I still remember all of them. At the end, when Vandergrift was being closed, the assistant Division commander came over to me and said he was putting me in for the Naval Achievement Medal. I didn't understand what that truly meant. It wasn't until we got pulled out of Nam and reassigned to Okinawa when I began to understand it's significance. My regimental gunny found out about the award and personally told me he was going to block the award. I only smiled and told him fine - do it and I'll personally go tell the assistant Division Commander of the error of his award. I do recall the look on the gunnies face when I told him what I was going to do. Needless to say he didn't do anything to block the award. I was awarded the NAM (Naval Achievement Medal) after I completed my first tour with the Corps. When I reenlisted for a second tour, it came in real handy during every Division inspection I had the pleasure of participating in. I finally realized how important that award was and I knew how much was required to earn it.
(1)
(0)
SGM (Join to see)
I hear what you're saying. I was the Operations Sergeant Major in a Joint Task Force and had to do Navy/Marine "FitReps" which were our NCO Eval Reports on Senior or "Staff" Navy PO's and Marine NCO's. Naturally they were a different format so I recruited the help of some senior Navy and Marine NCO's to advise me. I received some good SA on the workings and I was as honest and straight as possible. Nice comment Master Guns.
(0)
(0)
PO1 Craig Anthony
Your eval system was probably tightly adhered to compared the navy, were slags would get 4.0, forcing the worthy to get 4.0, even if they were only a 3.8.
(0)
(0)
CPT Jack Durish
SFC James Welch - I had a Master Sergeant in my command when I was stationed in Hawaii. He only wore one ribbon, a Silver Star with an OLC. Of course I was curious and pulled his 201 file to see what was going on. The abbreviated version of the story (I've posted the full thing in another thread somewhere on RP) is that he lied about his age (13) to enlist for WWI and being large for his age, got away with it. He mustered out immediately following the war but reenlisted for WWII (no lying needed). Same for Korea. When he tried to enlist for Vietnam, he had to contact a very senior officer to pull some strings and he did a tour there. Retired with 20 years active duty, every day in wartime/combat service (except Vietnam - no combat for him there). And yes, he had plenty of awards and decorations. Would've looked like a potentate if he wore them all. The two Silver Stars he wore (he had others) were awarded by John J. Pershing.
(0)
(0)
SSG(P) (Join to see) First you need to understand responsibility before awards will make sense... I served from E-1 to O-6. From E-1 to E-5, I got an AAM (Impact), a JSAM, and an ARCOM when I went to OCS... I could not rate a MSM until I was Captain, or an LOM until I was a Colonel and Brigade Commander.
It is all about level of responsibility for both officers and NCOs.
What do you think you should be getting?
Awards are not what you want or expect, they are what you earn. And, yes, rank does play a role.
It is all about level of responsibility for both officers and NCOs.
What do you think you should be getting?
Awards are not what you want or expect, they are what you earn. And, yes, rank does play a role.
(79)
(1)
SGM Frank Marsh
COL Charles Williams - in the boonies in upstate Thailand. I came up with a program that revolutionized what we were doing and saved money. I got a letter of commendation, my LT got an ARCOM....she didn't even know what I was doing.
(2)
(0)
SGT Sam Decker
COL Charles Williams
I'm going to have to disagree with a specific point in your statement. You said rank plays a role. In AR 600-8-22, there is not a single, solitary mention of what rank you have to be to receive a specific award. The only criteria are the merits and performance attached to any given medal. But rank keeps getting applied because it "doesn't look good" when a SPC gets an ARCOM while the PL only gets an AAM. So one gets upgraded or the other gets downgraded. The gives the perception that you will,, at best, give higher ranks preferential treatment. At worst, you'll insult the hard work and performance of the lower rank. Awards should be given based on merit and nothing more. That's the way the regulation is written. Deviation from that is a lack of integrity.
I'm going to have to disagree with a specific point in your statement. You said rank plays a role. In AR 600-8-22, there is not a single, solitary mention of what rank you have to be to receive a specific award. The only criteria are the merits and performance attached to any given medal. But rank keeps getting applied because it "doesn't look good" when a SPC gets an ARCOM while the PL only gets an AAM. So one gets upgraded or the other gets downgraded. The gives the perception that you will,, at best, give higher ranks preferential treatment. At worst, you'll insult the hard work and performance of the lower rank. Awards should be given based on merit and nothing more. That's the way the regulation is written. Deviation from that is a lack of integrity.
(0)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
COL Charles Williams Hello. I think this post was referencing implied responsibility for a “service” award. Your post references an “achievement” award; a service award; and a PCS award. They are technically different categories. And rank carries different levels of responsibility. For example, the “Defense Distinguished Service medal” criteria is written in such a way that it’s DoDI says it should only be given to General Officers because of the responsibility required for the position.
(0)
(0)
Everyone I have ever met in the military, who is worth a damn, cares more about what's between your ears than what's on your chest......
(58)
(0)
PO1 Harry Champagne
SFC (Verify To See) - PART OF THE PROBLEM IS ITS NOT ALWAYS WHO YOU KNOW ITS WHO BLOW.
(2)
(0)
SSG Gregg Mourizen
LOL, you must have not known any airborne soldiers. Man, if you wear that patch and have that beret, man you are still lower that dirt, if you don't have your jumpwings.
(4)
(0)
I would be interested to see statistics on this subject. As I have personally seen Sergeant Major's and First Sergeant's who never, "left the wire" receive Bronze Star's with Valor devices within months of returning CONUS while Lance Corporals, who obviously deserve, and who were submitted for the same award, by astute and professional leaders, never receive one.
For obvious reasons this can create a caustic command in which the lower ranks assume that their superiors are only out for themselves, and may have "trashed" (i.e. not submitted beyond the initial chain of command) the write-ups.
I think that rank SHOULD NOT influence the receipt of awards, but would argue that it does. Furthermore any O-6's+, E-8's, and/or E-9's who have received unearned awards would, in all likelihood, argue against or downplay this belief, by saying, "it doesn't or shouldn't matter". When in reality, it does matter and heavily influences whether or not people stay in.
Whether people want to acknowledge it or not, we are still a war time military force, and should be trying to retain all of the savages we can, not the careerists.
For obvious reasons this can create a caustic command in which the lower ranks assume that their superiors are only out for themselves, and may have "trashed" (i.e. not submitted beyond the initial chain of command) the write-ups.
I think that rank SHOULD NOT influence the receipt of awards, but would argue that it does. Furthermore any O-6's+, E-8's, and/or E-9's who have received unearned awards would, in all likelihood, argue against or downplay this belief, by saying, "it doesn't or shouldn't matter". When in reality, it does matter and heavily influences whether or not people stay in.
Whether people want to acknowledge it or not, we are still a war time military force, and should be trying to retain all of the savages we can, not the careerists.
(50)
(0)
MSgt Gilbert Jones
The problem with getting awards they have to be written by your supervisor or someone higher. In many cases you may have the unlucky job of working for someone who first don't know what you do, or too lazy to write up the award. During my 22 years in the AF I was blessed to have worked for great bosses my first 12 years. Most were rated officers and if you were on the stick and really did a great job, they rewarded you by putting you in for awards. out of those last 10 years I worked for 9 non rated officers. Of those three told me I could put myself in for any award within reason I wanted and they would sign off on the recommendation. I told each one that if they thought I deserved an award, they either they should write up the recommendation or have someone else do it. I didn't mind supplying input but I refused to write the narrative. I always made sure that every individual that I supervised both military or civilian was recognized for their work. Now that didn't mean they received awards just for doing their job, but what they did above and beyond it. During my early years in the AF it really meant something for an enlisted man, especially junior Amn/NCO's to receive AF Commendation Medals, not any more, at least not in the AF. When I was a young E-4 I saw in the AF Times where this captain had earned 5 AF Commendations. I said to myself, I'm going to beat that - I did. In my first 10 years I received 6 commendations, don't know how many that captain finally had before he retired. I will tell you this, I earned every one of those commendations I was a First Sergeant before I retired, and when I would put an airman(s) on some kind of detail the first thing would ask when will I get my 3-day pass or my Commendation medal. The meaning of the commendation today no longer has any real meaning. As for receiving a MSM when I retired, I earned that award to. I also was awarded First Sergeant of the Year on my base for above and beyond what was expected of me - my troops would tell you that, they knew I had their backs as long as they were right and I had to go to battle for some of them. So for some of you who think you were cheated out of awards, ask yourself, did I do more then just my job and was expected of me or did I take that extra step and do more. Yes, there are some brown noses out there who really didn't deserve those medals, I have known a few of them, and yes it p____d me of to. For those of you who are still serving, hopefully you have a good supervisor who appreciates the job you are doing and not be lazy and write that narrative for you.
(1)
(0)
MSgt Gilbert Jones
PO1 Harry Champagne - Before the senior enlisted men went to those so called ass kissing schools they were junior enlisted - think about what you said.
(0)
(0)
SFC James Welch
The idea Soldier is one so terrible in Combat that he has to be locked away in peace and released in time of war. Combat is not for the faint of heart. In the old days the best in combat were often reduced in rank, usually for drinking to be able to live with what the had done and seen, and got their stripes back when the fighting started again. True Warriors bring fear to the hearts of lessor men who try to degrade them at ever opportunity!
(1)
(0)
SFC James Welch
They had to have them for promotion, that was called getting their “ Ticket Punched”!Cpl Phil Hsueh
(0)
(0)
My input comes with the "results will vary" disclaimer. First, I'm in the camp that there's way too many decorations awarded, way to many patches/badges, etc. My NAM had to be signed off by the Fleet Vice Admiral. That's how I grew up. BTW my NAM showed up in my in-box. So being somewhat jaded, I progressed from E-1 to O-6 to Command and had these percentage awards authorized. My policy was if I could do up to 5% of the body count or whatever, it would apply equally to ENL and OFF. It was more of a struggle to get ENL stuff done right primarily due to the crappy writing skills of the NCO and JO community. To make it work took some babysitting. So if you're evenly spreading, sometimes you have to make a determination that a pro rata split isn't right.
When you have Dets spread all over the world, including the badlands, you'll see more award focus there. Stuff I couldn't sign off on had to be staffed up and that meant XO and I were heavy into the write up. It's a poor reflection on the Skipper to have stuff tossed back. I batted 100% through MSMs. LOMs were prepared after I had a heart to heart with the Flag and received the go ahead to push it up. The amount of work, responsibility, impact, or whatever it is now called, had been diluted greatly during my time in and continued unabated afterward. When I was doing promotion boards (including O-5/6), the notion of EOTs was just starting to be mainstream to the point of reviewing officers wondering why one wasn't awarded given a must promote recommendation on the Fitrep. I knew the awards system was seriously broke then.
Oh saw a piece of COL Charles Williams sage input. Never fall into the "quantity" trap. An analogy is flipping burgers. If flipping 200 and hour is the standard, what reward for doing 300? Same skill, same span of control, same output, same risk. Your reward will be employee of the month and maybe a 50 cent raise. Consider awards are more for the lasting difference you make after you're gone. My NAM was an O-1/2 award for building new stuff in Antarctica that hadn't been done before. That and running the surface SAR operation and having to fetch boondoggler politicians when their Huey went down in a whiteout. Add a dash of freeing a brand new stuck ice breaker (Polar Star) using explosives techniques I devised. That I was told was solidly in the range of a NAM. Times change.
When you have Dets spread all over the world, including the badlands, you'll see more award focus there. Stuff I couldn't sign off on had to be staffed up and that meant XO and I were heavy into the write up. It's a poor reflection on the Skipper to have stuff tossed back. I batted 100% through MSMs. LOMs were prepared after I had a heart to heart with the Flag and received the go ahead to push it up. The amount of work, responsibility, impact, or whatever it is now called, had been diluted greatly during my time in and continued unabated afterward. When I was doing promotion boards (including O-5/6), the notion of EOTs was just starting to be mainstream to the point of reviewing officers wondering why one wasn't awarded given a must promote recommendation on the Fitrep. I knew the awards system was seriously broke then.
Oh saw a piece of COL Charles Williams sage input. Never fall into the "quantity" trap. An analogy is flipping burgers. If flipping 200 and hour is the standard, what reward for doing 300? Same skill, same span of control, same output, same risk. Your reward will be employee of the month and maybe a 50 cent raise. Consider awards are more for the lasting difference you make after you're gone. My NAM was an O-1/2 award for building new stuff in Antarctica that hadn't been done before. That and running the surface SAR operation and having to fetch boondoggler politicians when their Huey went down in a whiteout. Add a dash of freeing a brand new stuck ice breaker (Polar Star) using explosives techniques I devised. That I was told was solidly in the range of a NAM. Times change.
(35)
(0)
CDR Michael Goldschmidt
SFC Bernard Walko - I would argue that, as officers, it was our responsibility to make sure that our enlisted people either were continually competent or learned their jobs, not to teach them. It was our job to assure they had the resources to do their jobs, whether that was knowledge, equipment, or leadership, which is why the military has schools, budgets, OJT programs, and a host of other resources. We cannot teach you what we do not know, but we can do our best to assure you have resources to learn it.
(0)
(0)
CDR Michael Goldschmidt
SFC Bernard Walko - As it should be. The officers are ultimately responsible and accountable for their units' performance.
(0)
(0)
Most Enlisted I know pretty much agree that the awards system is broken. Officers know it's broken as well, but they are more likely to benefit from it than enlisted. However, the biggest thing that stops soldiers from getting awards is laziness from their leadership, and that includes senior NCO's.
I would like to add, however, that enlisted are less likely to have a plan for their future, to plot out their means of advancement. Officers tend to know how much their career depends on OER's and awards, and they actually work to ensure a successful career. If you focus on your career path and work hard to achieve long term goals, you are more likely to end up with awards.
I would like to add, however, that enlisted are less likely to have a plan for their future, to plot out their means of advancement. Officers tend to know how much their career depends on OER's and awards, and they actually work to ensure a successful career. If you focus on your career path and work hard to achieve long term goals, you are more likely to end up with awards.
(32)
(0)
MSgt Gilbert Jones
You are so right, like they say, behind every husband there's a good wife, so after every supervisor that has great people he supervises, are great workers, they make everyone look good.
(0)
(0)
SSG Cliff Richardson
The whole thing is based on awards, and schools ( ie patches ), that's why officers get far more school priority than enlisted, most waste point cadets fill Airborne, Ranger, Sapper etc. schools, and earn the tab for their records, looks great in the photo shoot, and great on paper, but consider this, these schools should not be a career need for every officer, most of the non combat arms officers today have 2 things, Ranger tab, jump wings, some attended the old jungle school in Panama, some have even gone to scuba school, seen them myself, one i knew if Fort Riley Ks. was the 2nd Bde Finance officer, a Cpt. when I questioned about the tabs, and jungle patch, I found out that he got all that during the summer breaks during his wast point time! So think about it you pack up the limited capacity schools with 30% or better cadets, or officers who need a career boost on paper, and you limit the possiblity for those who actually need the fuckin patch and paper to stay in or finalize their posting to a Ranger Reg. Some of those guys had to wait up to and over 2 years to get the school, but already served in the Bat. all that time, working, training being a Ranger without the patch, and one that is a personal friend of mine names is Brad O. waited almost 1 1/2 years for a jump school slot! Most that enlist just for this and are guarenteed have waited almost up to a year or more for their slot time, reason given schools were packed with officers, and cadets, my friend told me that when he was with the 1st Ranger Bat. they were far behind on tabs, and wings, but they still deployed! Now I hope this shed some light on schools, and awards,. Who deserves an award, should be given the same priority that officers, and some E7's and above get for just being there, those that deserve an award during wartime operations, are often overlooked, or disaproved due to rank, personal feelings toward the soldier being considered for this award, to much hatred toward individuals in general from command has stopped many from recieving BS's, ARCOMS, ST's from being awarded. Also general BS''s awarded to E7 - and Above up to Div CDR, fact, 3rd AD CDR, all the way down to my platoon Sgt. Bco 5/18 Inf, 3rd plt. Most just awarded for being there, in Desert Storm. Heard that the Finance section from 3AD gave all E6, and above! Total fucking waste in my book.
(0)
(0)
SSG Cliff Richardson
SPC (Verify To See) - Of course most enlisted don't have a plan for their future, thats why their supposed to be guided by the NCO corps, or it sure sounds like someone guided or is guiding your future in the military. As a former SSG I myself looked for the career ideas of my soldiers, for and after the military, ie did you know that a veteran 6 months and 1 day qualified in 1993 as a veteran and therefore could attend 4 years college on the state of Illinois for free, in accordance with the GI bill regardless of how many years in program or money saved! I required this from all the leaders that served with, and under me. My statement is not a total callout to the failure of all leaders, don't be stupid, that's is pretty ignorant of you! If you bothered to read into it, you would have recognized exactley which areas, and what commands that this affected, all that is written was true from 1980 - 1993, beyond that I cannot say, may be better, may have gone worse, but you can bet on one thing for sure, all, and I mean all officers get the slots that are needed for combat schools, in order to get the qualification for the records, if not then ask your officer friends, especially those working in totally non-combat fields, like finance, check the officers for tabs, then check the enlisted, now check against how many slots were enlisted that were changed or reschuled for later dates, I mean officers in charge of diesel refueling have ranger tabs, 2nd leutenants, go figure, his is not a direct combat related MOS, it is a support MOS, if he doesn't have cross rifles on the left collar, what business did he have for being awarded that slot? About awards, needs no explanation, many times I have heard that some awards were withheld by command and downgraded due to someone in the chain of command did not care for the individual, for whatever reason. But I was assured that it must be a legitimate reason, cannot be just because the 1sg don't like the guy or some bullshit like that, the point that I was trying to make was far to much gereralization towards awards of all types, and in my time the school situation was a mess!
(0)
(0)
SSG Cliff Richardson
Then why did your post end up on my notification, possible you or RP made a mistake. When were you in? Sorry about the ignorance statement, please forgive me, your statement ended up on my notification, and I made the mistake of assuming that your statement was directed at me, and my statement had to do with what was written before! I'll defend what I wrote any way I need to, to the degree I feel I have been attacked! Sorry that the entire NCO corps of your unit wasn't there to direct your career, just that maybe you didn't want to hear some of it, always possible. i was almost in every unit a company reenlistment NCO, sometimes had to work at BN level, was a designated sqd leader, most of the time a plt. sgt. as an E-6, after 11 yrs. 7 mos. and 20 days I took over a reserve support company as the 1sgt. the whole while being only an E-6, been through a lot, seen a lot, accomplished a lot, ashamed I did not know you, I probabley could have helped you reach exactly what it was that you were after, either by me or pointed to the person who could. Sorry, Cliff
(0)
(0)
Here is my two cents (maybe a little more than two cents):
You have been in almost 9 yrs and your only award is an AAM. Which you got for getting 9 Soldiers back into the Reserves. The written standard (as you stated) is x3 and you get an AAM. Was it written that if you got x9 that you would get an ARCOM? If not, then oh well. Instead of focusing on what you DIDN'T get, focus on what you did get. Perhaps, in the minds of the powers that be, AAM is simply the standard...no more no less. Or it could be they didn't feel that x9 justified an ARCOM. Or it could be that they weren't sure how to quantify the bullets to warrant an ARCOM. There are a number of reasons why.
As for your statement of being in almost 8 yrs and your only real award is an AAM......well, sometimes that's how it goes. I was in initially for 10 yrs and when I ETSd, I walked out with 4 ribbons on my chest.....which were an AAM, NDSM, ASR, and an OSR. Also, at no time did I ever receive a PCS nor ETS award (there is nothing stating those HAVE to be given). Was it bad leadership, or leadership that didn't think I did enough, or was it that I just didn't do enough? Who knows. Did I feel I was owed more? Sure, I thought that. But knowing what I know now looking back, I didn't deserve more than I got. It's just how the game is played. Besides the fact that rank is not supposed to be a factor in awards (with the exception of certain awards), rank is taken into account based on the level of responsibility. I didn't get my first ARCOM until after I finished my deployment to Iraq as a SPC. My next ARCOM was after a WAREX where I was but a SGT and I was dual hatting as Team Leader and Detachment Sergeant (SFC position).
Now, looking at your DORs, I see that you made SPC in April of 2012. Here it is April of 2017 and you are still a SPC. You should have been promoted to SGT and working on SSG by now. You can be certain that your Leaders are looking at this. This tells them.....and me....that your drive is not all there. Plus, it would appear that you are only doing things to get medals. If this is your only goal....things are going to be a little rough for you down the road. Besides doing Military Funeral Rites, and getting x9 Soldiers back into the Reserves, what else have you done to better your unit and the Army? Are you going outside your comfort zone within your unit to learn things that no one else wants? For example, taking charge of new Soldiers to the unit and being their Sponsor? Or, taking charge of the unit's APFT program, or HT/WT program, or being an assistant to the Training and/or OPS NCO? Serve as a Squad Leader? Anything other than being a Squad Member and Funeral details?
I'm not saying all this to chastise you, I'm saying all this to give you food for thought.
You have been in almost 9 yrs and your only award is an AAM. Which you got for getting 9 Soldiers back into the Reserves. The written standard (as you stated) is x3 and you get an AAM. Was it written that if you got x9 that you would get an ARCOM? If not, then oh well. Instead of focusing on what you DIDN'T get, focus on what you did get. Perhaps, in the minds of the powers that be, AAM is simply the standard...no more no less. Or it could be they didn't feel that x9 justified an ARCOM. Or it could be that they weren't sure how to quantify the bullets to warrant an ARCOM. There are a number of reasons why.
As for your statement of being in almost 8 yrs and your only real award is an AAM......well, sometimes that's how it goes. I was in initially for 10 yrs and when I ETSd, I walked out with 4 ribbons on my chest.....which were an AAM, NDSM, ASR, and an OSR. Also, at no time did I ever receive a PCS nor ETS award (there is nothing stating those HAVE to be given). Was it bad leadership, or leadership that didn't think I did enough, or was it that I just didn't do enough? Who knows. Did I feel I was owed more? Sure, I thought that. But knowing what I know now looking back, I didn't deserve more than I got. It's just how the game is played. Besides the fact that rank is not supposed to be a factor in awards (with the exception of certain awards), rank is taken into account based on the level of responsibility. I didn't get my first ARCOM until after I finished my deployment to Iraq as a SPC. My next ARCOM was after a WAREX where I was but a SGT and I was dual hatting as Team Leader and Detachment Sergeant (SFC position).
Now, looking at your DORs, I see that you made SPC in April of 2012. Here it is April of 2017 and you are still a SPC. You should have been promoted to SGT and working on SSG by now. You can be certain that your Leaders are looking at this. This tells them.....and me....that your drive is not all there. Plus, it would appear that you are only doing things to get medals. If this is your only goal....things are going to be a little rough for you down the road. Besides doing Military Funeral Rites, and getting x9 Soldiers back into the Reserves, what else have you done to better your unit and the Army? Are you going outside your comfort zone within your unit to learn things that no one else wants? For example, taking charge of new Soldiers to the unit and being their Sponsor? Or, taking charge of the unit's APFT program, or HT/WT program, or being an assistant to the Training and/or OPS NCO? Serve as a Squad Leader? Anything other than being a Squad Member and Funeral details?
I'm not saying all this to chastise you, I'm saying all this to give you food for thought.
(29)
(0)
SGT Randall Smith
When I was in I didn't care about any awards. I cared about rank and pay raises. Each time I was promoted I went to the First Sgt and ask what I had to do to be promoted again and how soon. The 1st Lt. I worked under was super. I wanted to learn how to plot radio signals and as him how. He took the time to teach me and in less than a month he no longer had to do it. I did them and he would just check me out. I told him this should be a job for a PFC or Spc. that evening he sent in the paper work for my promotion to PFC with waivers for time in grade and in the Army. 4 months later we aced an IG inspection and for thanks he ask what I wanted. He thought a 3 day pass I think. Told him with waivers I qualified for Spec 4. The papers went in that week. 1st Sgt told me I would never make E-5 with that MOS. So I found a school starting soon for 31M Radio Operators. 3 weeks later I was on my way to Lengries Germany. Came back, worked my new MOS and the now Capt. put me in for Sgt. Went before the promotion board and was Sgt E-5 16 months after entering the Army. Many of the guys I got there with were still E-3 and E-4. I wanted E-6 so I ask for a transfer, figured the only way was Viet Nam. I was wrong.
(5)
(0)
CDR Michael Goldschmidt
I was a LCDR with 14 years in before I got my first personal award. Does that mean I was a dirtbag? I don't think so. It seems 4 Admirals didn't think so, either, since each wrote a letter to the promotion board to get me promoted. Sometimes, awards are about luck of the draw: the job you had, what your boss's philosophy was, etc. The most important thing is doing right by your people and your mission. Sometimes, that means pissing people off, which negatively impacts positive recognition. So be it.
(4)
(0)
MSG (Join to see)
SPC Coleton Belcher - Check your azimuth SPC. Your statement of " and of course i mean that in the most respectful manner possible SSG" is completely negated by what you stated before and after that....which is danger close to Insubordination and I have no qualms tracking YOUR NCOs down and recommend "corrective training." While you are correct in that my job is (per the Creed in this exact order) the accomplishment of the mission and the welfare of my Soldiers, there is a SHIT TON more to those two statements than you realize. I once thought like you, that those were the only things an NCO had to do. Then I became an NCO and my eyes were opened. Also, clearly you didn't read my response in it's entirety. The poster of this question stated that he basically felt he deserved an ARCOM instead of an AAM. Every single Soldier feels they deserve more than what they get. We've all been there. It quite literally is the "it is what it is" thing in the Army. But, at the end of my response, I asked him how he is making himself and his unit better. That, if you take a moment, is a form of mentorship. It may be the format you like or the format you want, but it is mentorship and therefore it is what it is. If you think I am the only SSG in this world that has this "IDGAF" attitude, think again. For starters, I do NOT have that mentality. If I did, I wouldn't still be in the Army. Also, there are MANY Soldiers that have this attitude and worse. Stay in for a spell, and you will see it. I didn't pull any punches in my truthful statement. If my blunt truth happened to damage your fragile feelings, I'm sure there is some tissue you can pick up from Supply. As I told my own Soldiers once upon a mass ass-chewing (due to insubordination and disrespect). My job is not to be popular. My job is not to be liked. My job is to see to it the mission gets done, done safely, and get as many of my Soldiers home as safely as I can........with all the bullshit bullets I deflect for them in between. You don't like my answer, I don't care. It is the truth, and it is what it is. Also, the next time you want to get froggy and jump, you better damn well be sure to do it with someone that doesn't outrank you. Picking up what I'm putting down, SPC?
(6)
(0)
Sometimes it is perception. An Officer or Senior NCO may be doing a lot more than you see. There is a lot of things going on behind closed doors, or in conferences with senior leadership. There is more planning and organizing than the average Joe can see. I'm sure this is not always the case, but many times it is happening that way, and the folks at the bottom of the chain do not want to believe it.
(18)
(0)
CPL Steve Freeman
Sitting behind a closed door talking about shit shouldn't merit an award. Award should mean going above and beyond your duty. Officers (or NCOs) talking about
stuff is not going above and beyond. It's doing (barely) what they're paid to do.
stuff is not going above and beyond. It's doing (barely) what they're paid to do.
(2)
(0)
SFC Rich Gomez
MSG, SSG Robert Perrotto is 100% accurate. I know none of the stripes I wore on my Sleeve or positions I held/attained were not by my efforts alone. I used to tell anyone, the Men that worked for/with me made my rank for me, without their efforts to be the best they could be none of it would have happened, they made me shine.
(2)
(0)
SSG Brian Lovins
SFC Rich Gomez - exactly my point of view, I also on numerous times told my 1SG that they could have my stripes back anytime if it meant I need to sit back and not do what was right by my Soldiers. That said I was given awards for absolutely doing nothing and was told to shut up and accept it while my troops were downgraded to LOA's for doing more than I did. Me selecting an individual to carry out a task out weighs their successful completion of said task how exactly? Awards should always be merit based and not based on rank or position. I can name a handful of times I actually deserved an award, and other were I got one for simply being a SSG and being the "acting" PSG.
(3)
(0)
SFC Rich Gomez
I am sorry, but I did not write the comment above attributed ro me. So, whoever did this I hope you're feeling proud of yourself, you're wrong for having done this, get with the program son and correct this problem.
(0)
(0)
Theater policy - official or not - was that every platoon leader and principle staff officer would be awarded a Bronze Star. After that, the quota for the unit was pretty much used up except for the CSM and 1SGs. I suggested the creation of a Snowflake Device to be affixed to the ribbon for those who earned this award while never leaving air conditioning. Command was not amused.
(16)
(0)
1. Organizational culture plays a role. Some units give out more awards than necessary, others give out very few. A lot of it depends on your leadership.
2. With nearly 11 years of service, two deployments, and a successful company command I have two ARCOMs and an MSM. None of my awards were impact awards. I can count the number of times in my career I've seen an officer of any grade receive an impact award on one hand.
3. Your being an 8 year E4 immediately sends up red flags, especially in a relatively high density MOS. It's very possible you're being held back by a lack of slots, but with that said what have you done to distinguish yourself? Are you scoring 270+ on the APFT, shooting expert, and finding ways to go the extra mile? Do you have SSD1 and BLC done? Have you stepped into an NCO position to fill a vacancy?
4. There's something called the burden of command. It's an incredible honor, but an extremely challenging experience at the same time. In my case I was responsible for both the successes and failures of 131 men. Command does not mean sitting in your office drinking coffee while your men work. If you think your Officers do nothing one of two things are happening: either they're all shitbags (unlikely) or you're simply oblivious to the work they've put in. (Likely) Any officer worth his salt is on step 8 of the TLPs by the time you arrive at formation.
5. You're awful close to whining in the post. Tagging "fairness" isn't helping your case either. Nothing is fair on the battlefield.
2. With nearly 11 years of service, two deployments, and a successful company command I have two ARCOMs and an MSM. None of my awards were impact awards. I can count the number of times in my career I've seen an officer of any grade receive an impact award on one hand.
3. Your being an 8 year E4 immediately sends up red flags, especially in a relatively high density MOS. It's very possible you're being held back by a lack of slots, but with that said what have you done to distinguish yourself? Are you scoring 270+ on the APFT, shooting expert, and finding ways to go the extra mile? Do you have SSD1 and BLC done? Have you stepped into an NCO position to fill a vacancy?
4. There's something called the burden of command. It's an incredible honor, but an extremely challenging experience at the same time. In my case I was responsible for both the successes and failures of 131 men. Command does not mean sitting in your office drinking coffee while your men work. If you think your Officers do nothing one of two things are happening: either they're all shitbags (unlikely) or you're simply oblivious to the work they've put in. (Likely) Any officer worth his salt is on step 8 of the TLPs by the time you arrive at formation.
5. You're awful close to whining in the post. Tagging "fairness" isn't helping your case either. Nothing is fair on the battlefield.
(14)
(0)
MAJ (Join to see)
LTC Paul Labrador
Sir,
Outside of deployments and full time personnel, EOT and PCS awards are almost non-existent in the Reserve Component. Ultimately it is what it is, but the reality for most RC officers is that you do not receive awards unless you deploy. I'm currently deployed with a very capable post-command CPT. He has two ribbons on his chest after 12 years TIS. His EOT award will be his first actual award, much like mine was on my first deployment. I'm fortunate that past leadership thought enough of me to write up 2 ARCOMs since then, but I'm very much the exception to the rule.
Sir,
Outside of deployments and full time personnel, EOT and PCS awards are almost non-existent in the Reserve Component. Ultimately it is what it is, but the reality for most RC officers is that you do not receive awards unless you deploy. I'm currently deployed with a very capable post-command CPT. He has two ribbons on his chest after 12 years TIS. His EOT award will be his first actual award, much like mine was on my first deployment. I'm fortunate that past leadership thought enough of me to write up 2 ARCOMs since then, but I'm very much the exception to the rule.
(4)
(0)
PV2 (Join to see)
LTC Paul Labrador - good point sir. Welcome back. I haven't seen you on in a while.
(0)
(0)
COL Vincent Stoneking
MAJ (Join to see) - And sometimes not even when deployed. My SWAG from Iraq consists of a GWOTEM and a Certificate of Appreciation from from MG Batiste, then the 1ID CDR. My first EOT award was in 2008, after a total of 20 YOS - and it absolutely stunned me that it happened.
I just did a plaque for a retiring peer/friend who is a MUCH better leader of men than I could aspire to be. Several more deployments than me, less individual awards. And my photo is actually current.
It is what it is.
I just did a plaque for a retiring peer/friend who is a MUCH better leader of men than I could aspire to be. Several more deployments than me, less individual awards. And my photo is actually current.
It is what it is.
(1)
(0)
(0)
(0)
Awards tend to be aligned with position and responsibility, along with achievement. Many of the awards you are referencing are service awards because an officer completed an assignment as a Platoon Leader, Staff officer, or commander.
Enlisted Soldiers don't get assignments where their position and responsibilities rate a Service award until they've been in for a while.
Instead, enlisted Soldiers tend to get awards for doing something extraordinary, like winning a Soldier of the Year board or really putting in work above and beyond during a training event.
If you feel like you aren't being recognized for what you do, sometimes the best thing to do is put yourself in a position to be recognized.
Lead training.
Volunteer for additional duties.
Try something hard, like an Audie Murphy Board.
I can tell you that the same thing happens when you get senior enough; people just expect you to perform outstandingly, because you are the First Sergeant, Sergeant Major, etc.
Honestly at this stage in the game, I don't need any more medals to validate what I do; it is as much a hassle to update a ribbon for one more AAM or something. But I absolutely recognize what a little formal recognition means to my Soldiers, so I try to give them opportunities to excel and see what the results are. Excellence tends to self-identify.
Enlisted Soldiers don't get assignments where their position and responsibilities rate a Service award until they've been in for a while.
Instead, enlisted Soldiers tend to get awards for doing something extraordinary, like winning a Soldier of the Year board or really putting in work above and beyond during a training event.
If you feel like you aren't being recognized for what you do, sometimes the best thing to do is put yourself in a position to be recognized.
Lead training.
Volunteer for additional duties.
Try something hard, like an Audie Murphy Board.
I can tell you that the same thing happens when you get senior enough; people just expect you to perform outstandingly, because you are the First Sergeant, Sergeant Major, etc.
Honestly at this stage in the game, I don't need any more medals to validate what I do; it is as much a hassle to update a ribbon for one more AAM or something. But I absolutely recognize what a little formal recognition means to my Soldiers, so I try to give them opportunities to excel and see what the results are. Excellence tends to self-identify.
(11)
(0)
From my perspective, part of the problem looks like you haven't been in a unit long enough for leadership to get a good handle on your abilities and capabilities - based on your profile, you've been in 5 units since you made specialist 5 years ago.
That means your leadership has, on average, 24 days of IDT (half of which is tied up in admin and mandatory training) and 2-3 weeks of ECT to get you integrated into the unit and begin to evaluate you. That's not a lot of time - and then you're gone to the next unit. Given a choice between writing an award for you and the Specialist who's been in the unit for 2-3 years, who do you think is going to get the ARCOM?
My advice would be to find a unit - preferably an Engineer unit - and stick with it.
That means your leadership has, on average, 24 days of IDT (half of which is tied up in admin and mandatory training) and 2-3 weeks of ECT to get you integrated into the unit and begin to evaluate you. That's not a lot of time - and then you're gone to the next unit. Given a choice between writing an award for you and the Specialist who's been in the unit for 2-3 years, who do you think is going to get the ARCOM?
My advice would be to find a unit - preferably an Engineer unit - and stick with it.
(11)
(0)
CPL Steve Freeman
I was a combat engineer with the 31st at Ft. Wood. My experience was, as a C/E, my parent unit was the 3/31C/E, I was detached to other units as needed. I was almost never with my parent unit and never with any other unit more than 1 13 month period. That said, I made E-4 within 2 yrs. If you're in 8 yrs and still E4 you've got other problems than the award system. You probably need to take a very long look in the mirror.
In an era during which we've been at war for 16 yrs, you shoulda been more interested in deploying and doing your job and less time bitchin about ribbons. I coulda had a handful of awards if anyone cared enough about them in my unit. But noone really did.
In an era during which we've been at war for 16 yrs, you shoulda been more interested in deploying and doing your job and less time bitchin about ribbons. I coulda had a handful of awards if anyone cared enough about them in my unit. But noone really did.
(1)
(0)
Couple things cross my mind inreading the question and responses....
1. Why are you a 8 year SPC?
2. Have you done something to warrent/deserve/earn an award?
3. What is your command policy on awards? Some have PCS, 300 APFT, 40/40 range qual....
I went the first 8 years/all of my enlisted time with 1 unit transfer without getting an award (and I went above the standard by doing CLS, NBC, and UPL). Sometimes it's a leadership issue.
My policy and expectation is to earn an award you go above and beyond your job and/or grade. I have awarded PFCs for doing MSG tasks, because that SM exceeded the expectation.
Officers carry a greater level of responsibility and they tend to get noticed more (both positively and negatively), that could be why you feel or have seen more officers get awards.
1. Why are you a 8 year SPC?
2. Have you done something to warrent/deserve/earn an award?
3. What is your command policy on awards? Some have PCS, 300 APFT, 40/40 range qual....
I went the first 8 years/all of my enlisted time with 1 unit transfer without getting an award (and I went above the standard by doing CLS, NBC, and UPL). Sometimes it's a leadership issue.
My policy and expectation is to earn an award you go above and beyond your job and/or grade. I have awarded PFCs for doing MSG tasks, because that SM exceeded the expectation.
Officers carry a greater level of responsibility and they tend to get noticed more (both positively and negatively), that could be why you feel or have seen more officers get awards.
(9)
(0)
SPC Robert Frizzell
So, that's a good question, I'll try to explain. Let's say your unit/squad is out on patrol, and you help some people in need. Because of this you get a unit service award, great. Because of that most of the time, everyone in your platoon/company get to ware that ribbon, but only while they are in that company. When they get transferred they can't ware it any more, only those that actually received the award can ware it always.
Now as for others like company commanders, battalion commanders, and all commanders up the food chain (chain of command) get to ware it also as long as nobody calls them out on it. For instance, a commanding general cam ware awards that anyone under his command receives except personal awards. That's why you will see officers that have a chest full of medals, most of which someone else earned. That's just one reason.
Another one is, as an example during Vietnam they would rotate officers in and out of country just so they could get service ribbons for being country. They were using different time in country requirements for officers than enlisted. All an officer had to do many times was have be "in" country for 3 day and they earned the ribbons while enlisted personal had to pull the full 6 months for a tour of duty. As an example, they would have a col. escorting a mail bag full of orders to command and be there for the return trip 5 days later, and he earned the ribbons. He gets to go back to his safe office and tell people he was "in" Vietnam. I hope this explains some things.
Now as for others like company commanders, battalion commanders, and all commanders up the food chain (chain of command) get to ware it also as long as nobody calls them out on it. For instance, a commanding general cam ware awards that anyone under his command receives except personal awards. That's why you will see officers that have a chest full of medals, most of which someone else earned. That's just one reason.
Another one is, as an example during Vietnam they would rotate officers in and out of country just so they could get service ribbons for being country. They were using different time in country requirements for officers than enlisted. All an officer had to do many times was have be "in" country for 3 day and they earned the ribbons while enlisted personal had to pull the full 6 months for a tour of duty. As an example, they would have a col. escorting a mail bag full of orders to command and be there for the return trip 5 days later, and he earned the ribbons. He gets to go back to his safe office and tell people he was "in" Vietnam. I hope this explains some things.
(1)
(0)
Okay, this is ridiculous. Officers don't get recognized more often than enlisted. In all actuality, the lower enlisted members probably get more recognized than any other group in the military. I think this is for a few reasons: 1. Lower enlisted are usually younger and need that pat on the back to keep their morale up, 2. NCOs by that time don't really care about massing awards, especially if they have already made it to E6 and thus, in the army it goes to the centralized boards (i can't speak on the other services. But more importantly, who actually thinks to put the LT in for an AAM? No one. He or she is expected to uphold the standard and thus doing great really isn't an award worthy feet. Go looking around at the ribbon racks of officers and enlisted members and tell me which ones have the most AAMs and ARCOMs and such. I be never seen an officer with more than one ARCOM and I don't believe I've ever seen one wearing an AAM. This sounds more to me like someone pouting because they haven't earned enough medals. You must exceed the standard to earn medals.go out and start exceeding!
(8)
(0)

Suspended Profile
This comment reminded me of a very strong SGT who was reassigned to my office to work under the supervision of our SFC who had a reputation for grooming young Soldiers into SSG's. On the day he arrived, he reported in his Class A's and we noticed that he had 2 ARCOM's and 5 AAM's. I called his previous commander on the phone and the guy told me the young SGT was superb and was deserving of every award he received. I think the bottom line is a chain of command from the first NCO to the "Old Man" that takes the awards program seriously and if someone is deserving, then stay late and do the paperwork. Too many times, "I'll get it done tomorrow" turns into "I forgot all about it."
MAJ Daniel Buchholz
Amused to be the exception. Though I make sure to take care of my Soldiers. I just submitted 10ish state level awards for my people for their work during our mission to the U.S. Virgin Islands.
(1)
(0)
I can go on for hours about this very topic. There is a belief that level of responsibility (read rank) determines the award. On paper this is not true. Every award has a set criteria and any Soldier that meets said criteria can be awarded that. However, fact of the matter is too many so called leaders tie rank to the award. This is why most E-7 and above get BSMs as deployment awards and E-6 and below typically do not (unless it has a V). I always read the criteria and put my Soldiers in for awards that met it. Every single time I wrote one up that was higher than an ARCOM it was summarily downgraded due to the grade of the Soldier. It didn't matter to the chain of command that they clearly met the criteria.
(8)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
Absolutely, for Officers, they will typically never get an AAM, it will always be an ARCOM or higher because of their Grade, unless they were prior enlisted.
But yes, there is no grade or rank tied to the Award Criteria, simply that the narrative in recommending the award matches or exceeds the criteria in which a person should be put in for the highest award and the Approving Authority downgrades or upgrades as necessary.
Most higher awards for Junior Enlisted are typically tied to Valor or Combat situations, so if you never deployed, you will never get higher than an ARCOM. E6-E8 typically get MSMs and Bronze Stars, unless its again a combat situation.
But yes, there is no grade or rank tied to the Award Criteria, simply that the narrative in recommending the award matches or exceeds the criteria in which a person should be put in for the highest award and the Approving Authority downgrades or upgrades as necessary.
Most higher awards for Junior Enlisted are typically tied to Valor or Combat situations, so if you never deployed, you will never get higher than an ARCOM. E6-E8 typically get MSMs and Bronze Stars, unless its again a combat situation.
(1)
(0)
In my opinion it's true. Of my 27 years served, my last 10 I held many high profile positions to include at the Division level. A lot of the things I developed and accomplished were firsts. I was also deployed a couple of times during my last 10 where I accomplished high level payoff things that had never been done before. The significance of my last 10 years is that's how far you can go back to write a retirement award. To shorten the story, my COL submitted me for a LOM, and since I was at the Division level it had to be approved outside my installation by the next higher command. Well it was downgraded to a MSM and never left my command, but meanwhile several senior offices and even a few Sergeants Majors received the same award (LOM) for working at the Division for a few years and doing various other things, but many did not have a right Shoulder patch. By this time I had several. So this is not only perception, it's reality. Officers take care of officers, and anyone below E9 enlisted is on his own seemingly. I was once in a unit early on and after a deployment the Commander told the PLDRs/PSGs that awards will be done by rank regardless of accomplishment. So I serverd all my years in the Army and successfully accomplished my mission above and beyond in many astuere environments and I get the same award as a MAJ gets for PCSing after two years. Hummm...
(7)
(0)
I can never begin to think I have the answer to this, but in my limited experience the service you belong to has a lot to do with this. When I was at HQUSCENTCOM I'd put individuals up for awards and the Marines would routinely deny or downgrade them while the other services would approve, or at least approve a downgraded version, of what was submitted. I agree with comments that more senior individuals realize the significance of awards and that younger leaders most probably have not learned the techniques of writing a nomination that will check all the boxes.
(6)
(0)
Sgt Vance Bonds
Agree. I've written a few and would get frustrated. Too many characters, partially out of format or convention......on and on. Once its learned they're not hard to write.
(1)
(0)
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Sgt Vance Bonds I imagine word processing software has made it a lot easier than in my days!
(2)
(0)
Read This Next