Posted on Oct 24, 2016
Why are Sailors upset about move to Naval Occupation Specialties (NOS)? I've always addressed POs by rank and last name; none complained.
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Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 67
Because its a huge part of our heritage and tradition. Its older that 241 years, this carried over from the Royal Navy. This is the biggest reason in my opinion. Just walk onto any ship and see how much pride a Sailor has in their rating. Every shop door usually has the rating symbol for the Sailors that work there.
The reason of the intense anger is the way we were told. There was virtually no warning this was coming; plus there is no defined plan to implement this, and the news was released right after the last MCPON left office, and the the "benefits" from this do not in most Sailor's eyes seem like they needed to remove rating titles to implement. Also in my opinion there are so many other, more important issues that need addressing in the Navy right now from top leadership.
As to you second statement: no Sailor ever would. We even use generic rank titles among ourselves when we don't know someone, they are nothing new. We would expect someone from another service to use our generic titles and have no understanding of our rating system, but thats ok, there will always be things each service has unique to them that the others won't understand.
The reason of the intense anger is the way we were told. There was virtually no warning this was coming; plus there is no defined plan to implement this, and the news was released right after the last MCPON left office, and the the "benefits" from this do not in most Sailor's eyes seem like they needed to remove rating titles to implement. Also in my opinion there are so many other, more important issues that need addressing in the Navy right now from top leadership.
As to you second statement: no Sailor ever would. We even use generic rank titles among ourselves when we don't know someone, they are nothing new. We would expect someone from another service to use our generic titles and have no understanding of our rating system, but thats ok, there will always be things each service has unique to them that the others won't understand.
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PO2 (Join to see)
I agree with you Chief. No one should say that their rate doesn't have heritage or tradition because of those that have gone before him/her that have a different experience that believe In fact it does! CPO Zack Lindsey -
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SN Greg Wright
PO3 Christopher Jonah Nelson - It's not as big a hit to YOU. And that's fine. However, yours is definitely NOT the majority view.
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PO1 James White
I was aboard USNS Concord and rated number 1 1st Class in the MILDEPT. When my relief came along, he thought all my collateral duties would be a cake walk and be an easy way to puff up his evals. When he discovered that it was actual real work he made his displeasure known within earshot of our OIC. When our CDR approached us he asked to talk to "IT1" and my counterpart (with a shit-eating grin on his face) replies, "which one of us sir?" Our CDR looks at him and says, "I overheard what you were saying about the collateral duties you don't want because they are sooo hard, so he's (pointing at me) the IT1, you're just another First Class." The point is, we take a lot of pride in our rates and within the Navy, we are so identified.
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Chief, when I read that I was no longer an IS1 in the Navy Times I honestly thought it was an April Fools joke. This was just sprung on us with absolutely zero warning. Ratings date back well over a hundred years and have become a source of pride that you have joined that community. Just ask a Gunner's Mate what he or she loves about the rating and they will probably tell you that it is the second oldest rating in the Navy behind Yeoman (administrative types) and that the very first Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy was a Gunner's Mate. That's pride and a real connection to history. They learned that shortly after basic training while in A School when their Navy ballcaps were still spotless and their pride at finally earning the title "sailor" hadn't yet faded. Earning the title Gunner's Mate was likely their second major accomplishment in the Navy. Now they belonged to the community of GMs and that pride was so palpable that many would get tattoos of the crossed cannons that symbolize the Gunner's Mate. It's a part of our identity that was just stripped away without any warning.
Everybody in the Navy has grown accustomed to addressing enlisted by their rate. If I was introduced to a new sailor IT3 Schmuckatelly, I knew in just three letters and numbers that he is a basically trained Information Techology Specialist AND that he is a green NCO. Likewise if I met BM1 Hardcharger I knew instantly that he is a basically trained Boatswains Mate and an experienced one at that. Bottom line is that the system made sense to us in the Navy because we were exposed to it from the earliest days. Twelve years later I still remember referring to my Recruit Division Commander as AE1 Kammerad and my recruiter as ABM2 Hopper. I learned quickly what that alphabet soup meant and knew that my RDC was in aviation electrical systems and my recruiter was an aircraft handler. Basically the system worked FOR US.
Now whenever I worked in a joint environment I never took offense to someone calling me Petty Officer because that to was right and proper. I would never expect a soldier or airman to understand our system. Even from a fellow sailor calling us petty officer was ok because you may not have been introduced and not know his or her rating yet. But referring to me as IS1 to me says I'm a member of your team and you can count on me to deliver intel when you need it. You don't have to ask what a B123 is. It's a part of my identity that was just wadded up and thrown away. And that is why it is almost universally hated among the rank and file.
Everybody in the Navy has grown accustomed to addressing enlisted by their rate. If I was introduced to a new sailor IT3 Schmuckatelly, I knew in just three letters and numbers that he is a basically trained Information Techology Specialist AND that he is a green NCO. Likewise if I met BM1 Hardcharger I knew instantly that he is a basically trained Boatswains Mate and an experienced one at that. Bottom line is that the system made sense to us in the Navy because we were exposed to it from the earliest days. Twelve years later I still remember referring to my Recruit Division Commander as AE1 Kammerad and my recruiter as ABM2 Hopper. I learned quickly what that alphabet soup meant and knew that my RDC was in aviation electrical systems and my recruiter was an aircraft handler. Basically the system worked FOR US.
Now whenever I worked in a joint environment I never took offense to someone calling me Petty Officer because that to was right and proper. I would never expect a soldier or airman to understand our system. Even from a fellow sailor calling us petty officer was ok because you may not have been introduced and not know his or her rating yet. But referring to me as IS1 to me says I'm a member of your team and you can count on me to deliver intel when you need it. You don't have to ask what a B123 is. It's a part of my identity that was just wadded up and thrown away. And that is why it is almost universally hated among the rank and file.
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PO1 Gery Bastiani
That is dumb, when I was finishing up boot camp found out what our rating was going to be it gave you pride. I got to go into the Seabees which in itself was special since we are few compared to the rest of the Navy. Then when I made Third class PO3 that was something I didn't make Chief by the time I retired but that was OK. But I guess the Navy what's to be like the rest and do away with tradition
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