Posted on Oct 30, 2015
Why are we having a difficult time winning in Iraq and Afghanistan?
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Responses: 12
The thing to remember here is we still have occupation forces in Germany and Japan from WWII and in Korea. It is unrealistic to think we can invade a place that is as different in social atmosphere as can be from us and be done in a couple of years.
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MAJ Ken Landgren
Our modus operandi is building the military, society, democratic government, and claim victory, then we leave.
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PO1 Todd Cousins
Yes sir and it isn't always safe. We had a flag officer RPGed and a commissary car bombed during the 90's in Germany.
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Our Values, beliefs and cultural values compared to the Pashtuwali beliefs and cultural norms.....are just different.
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Our Government and our society...
Both place personal agendas and restrictions on our military that ensures we do not completely defeat any enemy...
Both place personal agendas and restrictions on our military that ensures we do not completely defeat any enemy...
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MAJ (Join to see)
MacArthur said it best "It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it."
Lack of long term commitment or strategy significantly hampers anyone local to commit to our side. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/d/douglas_macarthur.html#8kRxgP70L7kdzpM5.99
Lack of long term commitment or strategy significantly hampers anyone local to commit to our side. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/d/douglas_macarthur.html#8kRxgP70L7kdzpM5.99
Douglas MacArthur Quotes at BrainyQuote
Enjoy the best Douglas MacArthur Quotes at BrainyQuote. Quotations by Douglas MacArthur, American Soldier, Born January 26, 1880. Share with your friends.
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MCPO Roger Collins
As usual, I agree with your post. I seriously wonder if anyone in this administration understands the difference between tactics and strategy. Wishful thinking is NOT strategy. If MacArthur were living and on active duty today, he would be fired in a nano-second.
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I am not sure we ever really wanted to win. Knee jerk reations to events do not work, neither does telling our "enemy" we are leaving on a specific day.
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That is really a hard question to respond to as in the first place one should define winning. We outgunned them all and if we had wanted to do a scorched earth to these areas we could have brought the smoke. BUT if you are referring to the "hearts and minds" part then that was something the folks doing the advising should have been more schooled on. As my experience from multiple deployments indicated that the regular civilian didn't know what to do with this new found "freedom" and we were at fault especially in Iraq with not knowing how to fill the power vacuum we created by disbanding the army and political machine.
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MCPO Roger Collins
Tine is never on our side. We, as a nation, have little patience. As evidenced by most arenas of combat since WWII. It is amazing that the peace protesters aren't out now. Oh, that's right they are in the White House and Congress. Fourteen years in these two countries and we are playing Russian, declaring victory and boogieing out. There is but one reason we haven't conclusively won, because we don't want to have the visibility of collateral damage. (civilian, so-called) deaths.
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Capt Seid Waddell
MCPO Roger Collins, we had Iraq all but won, until Obama pulled out our troops and kicked the supports out from under their fledgling government.
Ideological stupidity is our main problem in this country today.
Too many liberal/progressives to survive for long.
Ideological stupidity is our main problem in this country today.
Too many liberal/progressives to survive for long.
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Because we are not at full disposal to do so. Instead this administration has one hand and leg tied behind our backs.
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CAPT Tom Bersson
to me this issue is not the current administration. It is function of what we should have wanted to accomplish. Which in my opinion was to make things better for the national security of the USA. We went off on to many tangents and spent too much money thinking we should rebuild the nations. Of course a separate question is should we have even been in Iraq. Let's leave that for another discussion.
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MAJ Ken Landgren
CAPT Tom Bersson - It is as of our actions, the fighting the insurgents became just another line of effort at times.
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With Iraq and A'stan the issue goes way back to the US anti-soviet policies. This is where our alignment with certain parties begins to create friction. In the case with Iraq Prime Minister Gen. Abd al-Karim Qasim and in A'stan the mujahedeen battling a Soviet-backed government in Kabul. The current problems are long in the making. Both of these relationships resulted in war. when Qasim pulled out of the Baghdad Pact regime change efforts where put into motion and in A'stan when the pro-Soviet Democratic Republic of Afghanistan (DRA) asked for the the Soviet Union to aid the government. In Iraq this led to the rise of the Saddam and the anti-communist Baath Party. This put into motion the Iraq and Iran war. As well there where similar efforts in Iran to keep the Soviets at bay that resulted in the Iranian Revolution. All of this is preceded by the British and French influence in the region. All of this is over the strategic importance of oil. While the anti-soviet measures may be considered a success the policies which brought this about have greatly destabilized the region and in our wake ISIS and the Taliban filled the void. What may have prevented this is a SOFA in the likes of Germany, Japan, and Korea after the Gulf War as well in A'stan.
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MAJ Ken Landgren
You are right. Sometime a society will get what they wish for, an insurgency. Thank you for the history lesson.
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We did exactly as we said we would do. Remove a brutal dictator, remove wmds (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html?_r=0) and establish a democratic government. Iraq had a powerful military with modern day equipment, plenty of training and a $90 billion surplus. The new government convinced us that they had it under control. Sounds like a win for me. But now that they have lost control all of the sudden we failed? Now they want us back.
When I was in Iraq, we worked with Iraqi army everyday. When they would get to their post they would hang all of their gear, flak, Kevlar and ak on the wall then lay down on some sandbags and pass out for the 4 hour shift. Not all of them but most.
There are videos and witness accounts all over the Internet that show Iraqi soldiers leaving a fortified position, armed with M4s and full body armor. Surrendering to men in civilian attire holding an ak. After they are disarmed and their body armor is removed they are executed. There is no will to fight. I don't have an actual reason for why that is. I have ideas but nothing set in stone. Maybe it's because we came into country as oppressors instead of liberators. Maybe they don't know of any other type of life. Maybe they're tired of fighting. Regardless, the US took their country back and handed it to them on a silver platter. What they do with it after that is up to them.
What do we do now? Establish and maintain a permanent American presence? Keep out of any conflicts and let them take care if it themselves? I don't know. I'm just a former enlisted pog.
When I was in Iraq, we worked with Iraqi army everyday. When they would get to their post they would hang all of their gear, flak, Kevlar and ak on the wall then lay down on some sandbags and pass out for the 4 hour shift. Not all of them but most.
There are videos and witness accounts all over the Internet that show Iraqi soldiers leaving a fortified position, armed with M4s and full body armor. Surrendering to men in civilian attire holding an ak. After they are disarmed and their body armor is removed they are executed. There is no will to fight. I don't have an actual reason for why that is. I have ideas but nothing set in stone. Maybe it's because we came into country as oppressors instead of liberators. Maybe they don't know of any other type of life. Maybe they're tired of fighting. Regardless, the US took their country back and handed it to them on a silver platter. What they do with it after that is up to them.
What do we do now? Establish and maintain a permanent American presence? Keep out of any conflicts and let them take care if it themselves? I don't know. I'm just a former enlisted pog.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Cpl Dave D
The Iraqi Government never convinced us they had it under control, negotiations of the Status of Forces Agreement broke down over petty differences and it was used as an excuse to say Iraqi's don't want us there. It was a political promise in the US that led to our abandoning that country nothing to do with the Iraqi's capability.
The Iraqi Government never convinced us they had it under control, negotiations of the Status of Forces Agreement broke down over petty differences and it was used as an excuse to say Iraqi's don't want us there. It was a political promise in the US that led to our abandoning that country nothing to do with the Iraqi's capability.
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