Posted on Sep 9, 2014
SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
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In my line of work I would pay MORE for a Veteran if I could find any in Europe, I know a Vet may be all messed up, psychologically unstable and possibly dangerous...but aren't we all...that is why it is important to help and work with each other.

My first large business in Berlin, Germany I hired 2 Vets who stuck around like me. There was NOTHING they woudl not do to be succesfull, we rocked it like never before and never after.

So why all the problems? Of course there are situations where some vets need more help than a job and I understand that fully as a disabled Vet myself...BUT...it should not get in the way of the "brotherhood" of being a veteran.

I go out of my way to help vets, finding them jobs wherever they may be, try and hire them if I can, get them physical and medical help, even to the point of giving money but I woudl MUCH rather pay a good paycheck each month in a business where we work together, grow together and are successful together.

What are the reasons that the Vets are not helping the other vets? Why so few? There must be a reason!

I woudl love to read any input as I may be going Stateside to open a Veterans only business.

Thanks!
Edited >1 y ago
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LTC(P) Dccs
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Edited >1 y ago
I have worked with Vets and or service members for most of my adult life either as a treatment provider, commander, OIC or junior NCO. Your characterizations that we are or can be "all messed up, psychologically unstable and possibly dangerous...but aren't we all" is a dangerous misconception adding to the stigma. No, we do not display these tendencies and service members or vets do not display more than the general population. Combat Vets having problems because of trauma of any type except maybe head injuries are not any more dangerous or dangerously unstable than anyone else. PTSD does not make people any more dangerous than anyone else. Vets can have skills, yes, can be trained to be lethal, yes but they are not "unstable", "dangerous", or "crazy" just because they have been traumatized by their service. Are firemen, police officers, our mothers, daughters, sisters traumatized by rape, domestic violence, sexual harassment any of these things we erroneously ascribe to our vets/ hero's more dangerous than anyone else? Yes, emotional issues exsist and our service members suffer and are not given appropriate accommodations or chances for employment because of misconceptions, stigma, prejudices, and poor identification of those suffering along with poor treatment resourses. Vets need to organize to create a responsive infrastructure where healthy vets can help those in need. Then those that can create jobs help others start businesses where they create jobs and not just find a job. Vets with post traumatic stress are as safe and sound and as capable as any of us. They just need emotional supports, our understanding, adequate treatments, access to treatment and a chance. They are injured not broken!
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SGT Kuhn, I don't read any of the comments as negative or aimed towards you. My comment was to point out that there are misconceptions about combat vets. Compared to the general population the sickest combat vet is still not as dangerous as the sociopaths civilians compare us to. I wanted to note that we should not label or burden ourselves with negative connotations. Civilians will do a very good job of that and they don't need our help. The words used should never be written by a vet to describe another vet as it keeps a negative fallacy alive. When I see such comments written about any vet I usually will challenge it or totally rewrite the evaluation pointing out that statistics do not justify dangerousness just due to suffering a traumatic experience. LTC Luton is correct in that vets face challanges, which they usually. No matter how much help they get or don't get, they overcome the challanges not the treatment providers. Vets with PTSD are not sick, in my opinion, but are changed by the stresses and or horrors of war. They face challanges that they have never faced before nor have they been trained to face these challanges. These challanges are unique to each vet but with some common thread's. Many become disabled because they get stuck in the misconceptions, isolate themselves because their conditions are not even understood by their treatment providers, much less family, friends, loved ones, employers, or goverment. They don't need medications unless symptoms are severe and medications don't fix PTSD, talking does. Vets need vets but also understanding, supportive work environments untill frustration tolerances, impulsively and irritability not to mention hyper vigilance, hyper arousal and guilt starts to improve will they be able to cope well with the stresses of the workplace. You are providing the most necessary ingredient, a understanding, familiar, tolerant workplace they understand and are comfortable in. You are to be commended and I hope you can greatly expand on your efforts. This post just demonstrates that the issues raised here are complicated and should not be taken as a personal attack but as a brave attempt to start a discussion on some very sensitive and complicated issues. I would defend you efforts to help a growing community of traumatized people even if I disagree with a few of the words. Kudos!
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
>1 y
Thank you for the clarification. I to believe what you are describing but I would again add that more and more we vets keep each other is a place of limbo. We cannot move on or get better for reasons of "brotherhood". It is much easier, if not more familiar, for many vets to stick together in the mud and then do their best to support each other in the very mud that they are both keeping themselves stuck in through what they believe is support: A few beers, talk about the old days, reminisce about combat and so on. This does not help a vet move on.
As far as a vet saying "I understand your crazy, as am I" I truly believe that ONLY a vet can ever say that to a vet when meant in an endearing manner. To often Doctors try and find nice ways of saying what we just straight out say. Many, many vets will not even accept any other type of language.
I have a really good friend, 5 tours, IED injuries, hit in the back and so on, he refuses to even acknowledge any conversation about me caring for him, when I explain why I am helping him, he accepts my help and appreciates it but can barley say the words "thank you" becasue he is then acknowledging that he, an SF Barrel Chested Freedom Fighter, needed and took help.
Too many will not accept help, they rather stay in pain and rather stay in a bad position becasue suffering is the closest thing to what they know and civilians have no clue how to help. So who is left? Other vets, only other vets, and even then there are differences made in service, era and so on. Not an easy situation; honesty, integrity and transparency...that is how I work, live and operate. Never met a Vet that had a problem with it, they respect it more than dancing around trying to find the right words.
That is my experience, you obviously have another, most of my help is with vets health issues, PTSD as a focus, your focus may be another.
If you are interested, here is my website; I offer FREE nutrition and training plans for vets.
http://www.wholepatriot.com
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LTC Hillary Luton
LTC Hillary Luton
>1 y
SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA, I was actually trying to agree with your point, but apparently didn't articulate it well. My apologies. I was not condoning helping each other to the point of not helping at all. I was in fact suggesting that military personnel have the ability, if given the opportunity, to work through difficulties and become stronger because of them. I know a soldier who endured up to 25 blasts within a 1/2 mile during his deployments. He developed TBI. He was unwilling to accept his situation so he started studying for the Best Warrior Competition in an effort to help himself through the effects of TBI. Last year he was named NCO of the year. He helped himself. That is how resilient service members have proven to be time and time again.

Just one thing though, I'm not a gent. :-)
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
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LTC Hillary Luton - I just saw this, so sorry!! Thank you for the positive reply and the correction!
Best wishes,
Steven
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SSG Trevor S.
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I have had a few vets help and offer help in my transition.

If vets are not helping each other there may be a few causes:

1. They are too busy staying afloat in their own situation.
2. They don't think their help will do any good.
3. They are transitioned to the point they forgot where they came from.
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
>1 y
A shame really. I agree that it sometimes is a struggle for many but usually becasue they refuse help or try and go it alone.
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SFC Mark Merino
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Great question! I'll be watching closely because I can't figure it out either!
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
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My door is always open to veterans. Stay in touch.
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
>1 y
Cpl Randy W. Kestner Jr - My first job after my ETS was an insurance salesman. Never be afraid of such jobs becasue thy are a true test of character; if you can do them well, you can do everything well and most companies know this, not to mention life is all about contacts, I have a goal of meeting at least 1 new person a day and when I fly I make it 3, I have over 25K contacts and when I need a contract, I reach out but contacts are more about you giving the benefit with no expectations.
Forget what people may think, what people say and forget about any ego thoughts of "what will people think".
At the age of 40 I was down and out after my company shutting down for who I was the European Director of Operations and Development, I needed a job so I went back to being a doorman, within 4 months I had more offers than I could count on one hand, why? Because I made myself so unique on the door that people wanted to be around me, the opposite of a typical doorman. I was in a suit, well spoken, friendly and never rude or rough and I did it with no expectation, this is key.
Be different, set yourself apart through positivity, that is not always output or results!
You will make it my friend!
Steven
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SP5 Michael Rathbun
SP5 Michael Rathbun
>1 y
In the professional theatre biz, the key things you want to be known for in the industry are that you

1. Show up (early -- 15 minutes early is on time, on-time is late, and late is not acceptable)

2. Shut up (if anybody wants to know about your previous exploits, they will ask you. Meanwhile, let's see what you can do with this script, this cast and this director.)

3. Put out (know the lines, know the business, mind your props, mind your costumes, do the role(s) well)

4. Get along. (Like combat, fire fighting and rock climbing, this is an activity where you have EXACTLY ONE chance to get it right, and you MUST be part of a well-led closely cooperative team if you want not to die (that would be figuratively, on stage))

I had no idea that my training would relate to a later semi-major career, but then who knew that a lot of the riggers and grips in Shakespeare's theatre were out-of-work seagoing types who already knew the ropes.
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LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow
LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow
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Please see my response at https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/veteran-organizations-are-they-really-helping-veterans - these two questions are linked together imho...
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