Posted on Sep 9, 2014
Why can't more Veterans Help more Veterans?
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In my line of work I would pay MORE for a Veteran if I could find any in Europe, I know a Vet may be all messed up, psychologically unstable and possibly dangerous...but aren't we all...that is why it is important to help and work with each other.
My first large business in Berlin, Germany I hired 2 Vets who stuck around like me. There was NOTHING they woudl not do to be succesfull, we rocked it like never before and never after.
So why all the problems? Of course there are situations where some vets need more help than a job and I understand that fully as a disabled Vet myself...BUT...it should not get in the way of the "brotherhood" of being a veteran.
I go out of my way to help vets, finding them jobs wherever they may be, try and hire them if I can, get them physical and medical help, even to the point of giving money but I woudl MUCH rather pay a good paycheck each month in a business where we work together, grow together and are successful together.
What are the reasons that the Vets are not helping the other vets? Why so few? There must be a reason!
I woudl love to read any input as I may be going Stateside to open a Veterans only business.
Thanks!
My first large business in Berlin, Germany I hired 2 Vets who stuck around like me. There was NOTHING they woudl not do to be succesfull, we rocked it like never before and never after.
So why all the problems? Of course there are situations where some vets need more help than a job and I understand that fully as a disabled Vet myself...BUT...it should not get in the way of the "brotherhood" of being a veteran.
I go out of my way to help vets, finding them jobs wherever they may be, try and hire them if I can, get them physical and medical help, even to the point of giving money but I woudl MUCH rather pay a good paycheck each month in a business where we work together, grow together and are successful together.
What are the reasons that the Vets are not helping the other vets? Why so few? There must be a reason!
I woudl love to read any input as I may be going Stateside to open a Veterans only business.
Thanks!
Posted in these groups: Veteran Transition Specialist
Veterans Employment Representative
Jobs
Transition
Veterans Employment Representative Jobs Transition
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 15
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I have worked with Vets and or service members for most of my adult life either as a treatment provider, commander, OIC or junior NCO. Your characterizations that we are or can be "all messed up, psychologically unstable and possibly dangerous...but aren't we all" is a dangerous misconception adding to the stigma. No, we do not display these tendencies and service members or vets do not display more than the general population. Combat Vets having problems because of trauma of any type except maybe head injuries are not any more dangerous or dangerously unstable than anyone else. PTSD does not make people any more dangerous than anyone else. Vets can have skills, yes, can be trained to be lethal, yes but they are not "unstable", "dangerous", or "crazy" just because they have been traumatized by their service. Are firemen, police officers, our mothers, daughters, sisters traumatized by rape, domestic violence, sexual harassment any of these things we erroneously ascribe to our vets/ hero's more dangerous than anyone else? Yes, emotional issues exsist and our service members suffer and are not given appropriate accommodations or chances for employment because of misconceptions, stigma, prejudices, and poor identification of those suffering along with poor treatment resourses. Vets need to organize to create a responsive infrastructure where healthy vets can help those in need. Then those that can create jobs help others start businesses where they create jobs and not just find a job. Vets with post traumatic stress are as safe and sound and as capable as any of us. They just need emotional supports, our understanding, adequate treatments, access to treatment and a chance. They are injured not broken!
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LTC(P) (Join to see)
SGT Kuhn, I don't read any of the comments as negative or aimed towards you. My comment was to point out that there are misconceptions about combat vets. Compared to the general population the sickest combat vet is still not as dangerous as the sociopaths civilians compare us to. I wanted to note that we should not label or burden ourselves with negative connotations. Civilians will do a very good job of that and they don't need our help. The words used should never be written by a vet to describe another vet as it keeps a negative fallacy alive. When I see such comments written about any vet I usually will challenge it or totally rewrite the evaluation pointing out that statistics do not justify dangerousness just due to suffering a traumatic experience. LTC Luton is correct in that vets face challanges, which they usually. No matter how much help they get or don't get, they overcome the challanges not the treatment providers. Vets with PTSD are not sick, in my opinion, but are changed by the stresses and or horrors of war. They face challanges that they have never faced before nor have they been trained to face these challanges. These challanges are unique to each vet but with some common thread's. Many become disabled because they get stuck in the misconceptions, isolate themselves because their conditions are not even understood by their treatment providers, much less family, friends, loved ones, employers, or goverment. They don't need medications unless symptoms are severe and medications don't fix PTSD, talking does. Vets need vets but also understanding, supportive work environments untill frustration tolerances, impulsively and irritability not to mention hyper vigilance, hyper arousal and guilt starts to improve will they be able to cope well with the stresses of the workplace. You are providing the most necessary ingredient, a understanding, familiar, tolerant workplace they understand and are comfortable in. You are to be commended and I hope you can greatly expand on your efforts. This post just demonstrates that the issues raised here are complicated and should not be taken as a personal attack but as a brave attempt to start a discussion on some very sensitive and complicated issues. I would defend you efforts to help a growing community of traumatized people even if I disagree with a few of the words. Kudos!
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
Thank you for the clarification. I to believe what you are describing but I would again add that more and more we vets keep each other is a place of limbo. We cannot move on or get better for reasons of "brotherhood". It is much easier, if not more familiar, for many vets to stick together in the mud and then do their best to support each other in the very mud that they are both keeping themselves stuck in through what they believe is support: A few beers, talk about the old days, reminisce about combat and so on. This does not help a vet move on.
As far as a vet saying "I understand your crazy, as am I" I truly believe that ONLY a vet can ever say that to a vet when meant in an endearing manner. To often Doctors try and find nice ways of saying what we just straight out say. Many, many vets will not even accept any other type of language.
I have a really good friend, 5 tours, IED injuries, hit in the back and so on, he refuses to even acknowledge any conversation about me caring for him, when I explain why I am helping him, he accepts my help and appreciates it but can barley say the words "thank you" becasue he is then acknowledging that he, an SF Barrel Chested Freedom Fighter, needed and took help.
Too many will not accept help, they rather stay in pain and rather stay in a bad position becasue suffering is the closest thing to what they know and civilians have no clue how to help. So who is left? Other vets, only other vets, and even then there are differences made in service, era and so on. Not an easy situation; honesty, integrity and transparency...that is how I work, live and operate. Never met a Vet that had a problem with it, they respect it more than dancing around trying to find the right words.
That is my experience, you obviously have another, most of my help is with vets health issues, PTSD as a focus, your focus may be another.
If you are interested, here is my website; I offer FREE nutrition and training plans for vets.
http://www.wholepatriot.com
As far as a vet saying "I understand your crazy, as am I" I truly believe that ONLY a vet can ever say that to a vet when meant in an endearing manner. To often Doctors try and find nice ways of saying what we just straight out say. Many, many vets will not even accept any other type of language.
I have a really good friend, 5 tours, IED injuries, hit in the back and so on, he refuses to even acknowledge any conversation about me caring for him, when I explain why I am helping him, he accepts my help and appreciates it but can barley say the words "thank you" becasue he is then acknowledging that he, an SF Barrel Chested Freedom Fighter, needed and took help.
Too many will not accept help, they rather stay in pain and rather stay in a bad position becasue suffering is the closest thing to what they know and civilians have no clue how to help. So who is left? Other vets, only other vets, and even then there are differences made in service, era and so on. Not an easy situation; honesty, integrity and transparency...that is how I work, live and operate. Never met a Vet that had a problem with it, they respect it more than dancing around trying to find the right words.
That is my experience, you obviously have another, most of my help is with vets health issues, PTSD as a focus, your focus may be another.
If you are interested, here is my website; I offer FREE nutrition and training plans for vets.
http://www.wholepatriot.com
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LTC Hillary Luton
SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA, I was actually trying to agree with your point, but apparently didn't articulate it well. My apologies. I was not condoning helping each other to the point of not helping at all. I was in fact suggesting that military personnel have the ability, if given the opportunity, to work through difficulties and become stronger because of them. I know a soldier who endured up to 25 blasts within a 1/2 mile during his deployments. He developed TBI. He was unwilling to accept his situation so he started studying for the Best Warrior Competition in an effort to help himself through the effects of TBI. Last year he was named NCO of the year. He helped himself. That is how resilient service members have proven to be time and time again.
Just one thing though, I'm not a gent. :-)
Just one thing though, I'm not a gent. :-)
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
LTC Hillary Luton - I just saw this, so sorry!! Thank you for the positive reply and the correction!
Best wishes,
Steven
Best wishes,
Steven
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I have had a few vets help and offer help in my transition.
If vets are not helping each other there may be a few causes:
1. They are too busy staying afloat in their own situation.
2. They don't think their help will do any good.
3. They are transitioned to the point they forgot where they came from.
If vets are not helping each other there may be a few causes:
1. They are too busy staying afloat in their own situation.
2. They don't think their help will do any good.
3. They are transitioned to the point they forgot where they came from.
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
A shame really. I agree that it sometimes is a struggle for many but usually becasue they refuse help or try and go it alone.
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Great question! I'll be watching closely because I can't figure it out either!
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
Cpl Randy W. Kestner Jr - My first job after my ETS was an insurance salesman. Never be afraid of such jobs becasue thy are a true test of character; if you can do them well, you can do everything well and most companies know this, not to mention life is all about contacts, I have a goal of meeting at least 1 new person a day and when I fly I make it 3, I have over 25K contacts and when I need a contract, I reach out but contacts are more about you giving the benefit with no expectations.
Forget what people may think, what people say and forget about any ego thoughts of "what will people think".
At the age of 40 I was down and out after my company shutting down for who I was the European Director of Operations and Development, I needed a job so I went back to being a doorman, within 4 months I had more offers than I could count on one hand, why? Because I made myself so unique on the door that people wanted to be around me, the opposite of a typical doorman. I was in a suit, well spoken, friendly and never rude or rough and I did it with no expectation, this is key.
Be different, set yourself apart through positivity, that is not always output or results!
You will make it my friend!
Steven
Forget what people may think, what people say and forget about any ego thoughts of "what will people think".
At the age of 40 I was down and out after my company shutting down for who I was the European Director of Operations and Development, I needed a job so I went back to being a doorman, within 4 months I had more offers than I could count on one hand, why? Because I made myself so unique on the door that people wanted to be around me, the opposite of a typical doorman. I was in a suit, well spoken, friendly and never rude or rough and I did it with no expectation, this is key.
Be different, set yourself apart through positivity, that is not always output or results!
You will make it my friend!
Steven
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SP5 Michael Rathbun
In the professional theatre biz, the key things you want to be known for in the industry are that you
1. Show up (early -- 15 minutes early is on time, on-time is late, and late is not acceptable)
2. Shut up (if anybody wants to know about your previous exploits, they will ask you. Meanwhile, let's see what you can do with this script, this cast and this director.)
3. Put out (know the lines, know the business, mind your props, mind your costumes, do the role(s) well)
4. Get along. (Like combat, fire fighting and rock climbing, this is an activity where you have EXACTLY ONE chance to get it right, and you MUST be part of a well-led closely cooperative team if you want not to die (that would be figuratively, on stage))
I had no idea that my training would relate to a later semi-major career, but then who knew that a lot of the riggers and grips in Shakespeare's theatre were out-of-work seagoing types who already knew the ropes.
1. Show up (early -- 15 minutes early is on time, on-time is late, and late is not acceptable)
2. Shut up (if anybody wants to know about your previous exploits, they will ask you. Meanwhile, let's see what you can do with this script, this cast and this director.)
3. Put out (know the lines, know the business, mind your props, mind your costumes, do the role(s) well)
4. Get along. (Like combat, fire fighting and rock climbing, this is an activity where you have EXACTLY ONE chance to get it right, and you MUST be part of a well-led closely cooperative team if you want not to die (that would be figuratively, on stage))
I had no idea that my training would relate to a later semi-major career, but then who knew that a lot of the riggers and grips in Shakespeare's theatre were out-of-work seagoing types who already knew the ropes.
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Suspended Profile
Please see my response at https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/veteran-organizations-are-they-really-helping-veterans - these two questions are linked together imho...
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When I returned from Afghanistan, a Vietnam War vet friend of mine took one look at me and knew I needed help even before I myself realized it. He convinced me to go see his former Gunny Sgt who is now a VFW VA Advocate. Gunny helped me file a VA claim so I could get the medical and mental health services I needed to transition.
Since then, I spent a lot of time talking to other vets (especially when I owned a convenience store) and helping them get services. I drop what ever I am doing to talk to a fellow vet. I am currently attending college for auto body/collision repair. The college I am attending has a Veterans Club which has had a strictly social function up until now. I am trying to refocus the purpose of the club to be more of an advocate and support for veterans.
If, at some point in my future, I actually own a repair facility or am in a hiring position, veteran status will be a major factor in my hiring decisions. Vets know how to work together and strive for a common goal.
To answer the initial question, if vets are not helping other vets, it is the fault of every veteran. While in the service, we lived and died as a team. We need to remind ourselves of this daily and look for ways to help each other.
Since then, I spent a lot of time talking to other vets (especially when I owned a convenience store) and helping them get services. I drop what ever I am doing to talk to a fellow vet. I am currently attending college for auto body/collision repair. The college I am attending has a Veterans Club which has had a strictly social function up until now. I am trying to refocus the purpose of the club to be more of an advocate and support for veterans.
If, at some point in my future, I actually own a repair facility or am in a hiring position, veteran status will be a major factor in my hiring decisions. Vets know how to work together and strive for a common goal.
To answer the initial question, if vets are not helping other vets, it is the fault of every veteran. While in the service, we lived and died as a team. We need to remind ourselves of this daily and look for ways to help each other.
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
Amen @SSG (P) Matthew Bisbee! Great to hear, must be so fulfilling! Good for you!
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Personally I would hire 3 to 5 veterans tomorrow if their application showed up in my office today. Yes, that's a small number of veterans respectively, but you eat an elephant one bite at a time. All they have to do is show up. I'm not seeing those applications. We are a relatively small company, around 40 employees, with most of our available jobs paying between $15-$25 per hour, which isn't going to make anyone wealthy, but it would Keep someone out of the poorhouse. Currently we have about eight or nine veterans working here, with two of us being in hiring positions, which is well over the percentage that we make up in society.
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SPC(P) Jay Heenan
SGT Richard H., I am actually on my way out of this area. I just got back my VA percentages, so I am just outside of 90 days. As always brother, I wish you nothing but the best in ANY endeavor you find yourself in.
SSG (Join to see), I am glad you found something! I always found that 'you are overqualified' as a cop out for businesses. Instead of saying we don't want to hire you, they run with the 'overqualified' line, unless the hiring manager is concerned that you might be able to replace him/her.
SSG (Join to see), I am glad you found something! I always found that 'you are overqualified' as a cop out for businesses. Instead of saying we don't want to hire you, they run with the 'overqualified' line, unless the hiring manager is concerned that you might be able to replace him/her.
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SPC(P) Jay Heenan
SGT Richard H., money is not my driving force, being known as the 'go to guy' is ALWAYS my driving force, which doesn't hurt the income though...
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CDR Kenneth Kaiser
I have tried to help some vets sharing lessons learned in seeking employment and have seen some go on to success. Some of the difficulty is that vets are not a homogenous group. There are so many different specialties that sometimes it is difficult to help someone with a significantly different skill set. In those cases I can only provide tips in handling interviews etc. Given that and more to the point of SGT Hanner, I have often wondered why more companies did not work with reserve centers. Many returning vets will pass through there and they may be looking for work. If they find work locally they may also affiliate with the reserve center which would be win /win. If not then the center still helped a vet. Just a thought
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i help vets everyday. i work at the VA and i work with dementia patients. and geriatics it awesome and rewarding
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we started our own business here in texas and i always hire a vet cause i try to info then about when they ets out they have 180 days to find them a federal job. or any job that requires a civil service exam. fire fight,police.mail man anything good paying
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I think this is one of the biggest fears for my peers when it comes time to re-up or get out. The civilian job market is tough enough as it is, but the stigma associated with being a combat vet has me apprehensive at best in spite of being qualified.
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
That is often the case but it is often the case that we combat vets project that as well, more than not it is more our problem (PTSD) than it is the employer...that is why assistance is so key.
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I want to help my fellow vets. It's hard because where I live there are so many posers. I try to go with my gut but it's difficult. I guess that is why I prefer to help vets on here
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If only there were a web based system that veterans could use to connect with other veterans over similar experiences, schools, interests or plans. You could have an advanced search function to find veterans based on almost any characteristic. You could pose broad questions to the entire community and a merit system would raise the best answers to the top. There could be extra tools for employers looking to hire veterans and for veterans looking to be hired. That would be a very powerful tool to begin communication and mutual help. You could call it something that military folk consider a place to come together and meet up. Maybe RallyPoint?
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Capt Richard I P.
SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA I was being a little tongue in cheek, and hope you didn't take any offense, because I surely didn't intend any.
I'm sorry to hear it is so expensive for the business side to post job opportunities, I imagine its an issue of scale at this point, only the big employers are likely to be able to afford the rates. I assume you're also trying some of the military groups on LinkedIn?
I'm sorry to hear it is so expensive for the business side to post job opportunities, I imagine its an issue of scale at this point, only the big employers are likely to be able to afford the rates. I assume you're also trying some of the military groups on LinkedIn?
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
Oh no, no offense at all, all is well. Yes indeed but linked in is quick in catching me and wants to charge as well.
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Capt Richard I P.
SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA I can see how being a small business owner looking to do limited recruiting can be very frustrating. I know RallyPoint has a huge list of planned features but I wonder if they might be persuaded to add to the 'to do' list. You could propose a 'small business recruiting' classifieds page, where verified members with 1-5 vacancies to fill could post job advertisements for a more affordable rate. That way RP could avoid the big hiring companies circumventing the existing systems but help veteran entrepreneurs and small business owners.
This is the discussion page for change suggestions:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/make-one-change-to-rallypoint
This is the discussion page for change suggestions:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/make-one-change-to-rallypoint
If you could make one change to RallyPoint, what would it be and why? | RallyPoint
If you could make one change to Rallypoint what would it be? and why? RP admin team is and does monitor this thread so your voice/writing here will be heard/read. A few changes have already happened due to user feedback so keep it coming. In the last few months there have been numerous changes made and this site has become even better and more user friendly. I truly believe that the changes were made based off of feedback form the community....
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