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The Army allows people with full sleeve tattoos, criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people serve in the military. Clearly the Army isn't worried about looking professional or being professional. Numerous other Allied nations allow their service members to grow beards and have no problem with their SMs utilizing gas masks. Uniformity definitely isn't an issue either, since we have different hairstyles, uniforms, etc. What are your thoughts on this?
Uniforms
DA Pam 670-1
Facial Hair
Professionalism
Grooming Standards
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 669
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I got in trouble once for asking a female Major if she had a shaving profile. Good Times!
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SPC Ron Salsbury
Damn funny MSG Colby, this is why I am finding myself gender confused, with all the different identities now a days, I cannot tell the difference anymore. This is why I choose to pee outdoors, because I can stand and it is gender neutral, the critters don't judge and don't care!!!!! HHHHaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!
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SGT (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see) Being disrespectful to another SM is unacceptable and if that's how you feel and are still in then its time to get out as there is no place for you in the military.
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SGT (Join to see)
Lisa, pushing the limits and being disrespectful aren't synonymous.
But thank you for your feedback.
But thank you for your feedback.
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"The Army allows people with full sleeve tattoos, criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people serve in the military."
Not sure what Army you are talking about, with the exception of the tattoos, I really don't believe the Army or any other service, knowingly, allow these issues to the extreme that you are insinuating. We are not like other countries in the way we run our armed forces which is why we are the best in the world. Facial hair has many detractors both in the field and in garrison. Professional appearance is important and policing facial hair is nothing but a headache for commands.
Not sure what Army you are talking about, with the exception of the tattoos, I really don't believe the Army or any other service, knowingly, allow these issues to the extreme that you are insinuating. We are not like other countries in the way we run our armed forces which is why we are the best in the world. Facial hair has many detractors both in the field and in garrison. Professional appearance is important and policing facial hair is nothing but a headache for commands.
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CPL Earl Kochis
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen thank you sir it amazes me how many soldiers have no common sense!
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SGT (Join to see)
Gas masks have problems sesling if you have a beard and the enemy is not going to allow you time to shave before putting on your gas mask.
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SGT (Join to see)
CSM (Join to see) I don't see how a gas mask can properly seal over a beard. I doubt it could. So no beard.
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Because you are in the Armed Forces, and there are grooming standards that must be maintained.
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MGySgt (Join to see)
GySgt Charles O'Connell Oh... but, there is quite the assortment of mustaches across the Corps that fall within the regs.
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GySgt Charles O'Connell
MGySgt (Join to see) - My answer to the original question" Why Can't We Grow Beards?", I thought, was pretty straight forward, "Because you are in the Armed Forces, and there are grooming standards that must be maintained". Of course I recognize that certain operational requirements may necessitate deviation from, or hinder, adherence to grooming standards, i.e. SOF, or extended periods of time in the field where grooming standards cannot be met. In the latter example, once out of the field, have'm shit shower and shave, service their utilities, get ready to get back in the game. As to the former example, It's up to the unit commander to decide what is in the best interest of successful mission accomplishment, and as a commander it up to them to justify deviation from regulations.
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SGT Jim Wiseman
LTC James McElreath - I had the greens and I had the blues. I've always liked the pinks and greens. The blue wasn't bad, but there's something about them that doesn't look right when bloused into jump boots. I'd left the 101st before the change to blues, but I didn't like the way it looked in pictures of friends. Not having the unit patch or a combat patch on them seemed wrong too. I like that they returned to that. I also had a friend that was a recruiter and said his dress uniform would be mistaken for Marines'. Let the Marines have their look, they've had it for longer. I've heard the pinks and greens referred to as the "Eisenhowers." I liked that term.
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SSG Edward Tilton
It is sad that we are even discussing this. If you don’t want to look like a soldier?
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Beards are highly over rated. upon retiring I grew a full beard; it came in white as snow and while I thought it looked cool it came off the day a waiter told my daughter it was nice that she could go to lunch with her grandpa.
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SFC Raymond Burge
My majestic moustache that every CSM, SGM, and 1SG, hated grew in to a majestic beard.
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SGT Jimmy Russo
I had my Sam Elliot mustache an a Deep Southren Drawl , them German girls melted like butter on hot taters
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TSgt (Join to see)
Noooo CSM! Let me live in sweet ignorance that upon separating my beard will be amazing and no ichy whatsoever.
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Given that religious exemptions are given to allow beards the grooming standard is out of date and unbalanced.
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CPL Steve Freeman
SGT David Greth that makes as much sense as letting a meth head repair a grand piano. Wtf are you on? You need to quit that stuff.
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CPL Steve Freeman
All these exemptions are why the Army is now paying for sex changes instead of newer weapons and vehicles. All these exemptions are making the Army less combat ready and more full of shit. You of all people should know that. You're a colonel, not a private. Be a leader and do your job, not a peon follower who has to be told to do his job.
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COL William Oseles
CPL Steve Freeman - Glad I started a discussion on this.
The thing is, the regulations should be uniformly applied to ALL service members.
So either apply them to all service member by changing the regulations or do away with the exemptions.
The thing is, the regulations should be uniformly applied to ALL service members.
So either apply them to all service member by changing the regulations or do away with the exemptions.
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CW3 (Join to see)
He got a lot of soldiers killed at Fredericksburg. Bad General. Due to facial hair? I'll leave it to you.
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CPL Steve Freeman
Back in the days when flag officers were appointed to their lofty positions with NO prior military experience.
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SPC Cody Voye- of the items you mentioned, "full sleeve tattoos, criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people", which one gives you a professional edge over your opponent? If having a beard helps a Soldier be a better professional then I would be all for it. If not, you don't need it.
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SPC Christopher McMahon
MAJ John Adams Major, firstly, I’ll be 51 years old in a few days. I haven’t been a “lad” for quite some time. Secondly, I don’t think you read my comment. I never said anything about “real men” being clean shaven. In fact, I made no comment about “real men” at all. I simply said when I was in I was told it was due to sealing our personal protective mask. I also said in my opinion beards on soldiers don’t look professional. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you, doesn’t make them “brainwashed.”
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MAJ John Adams
SPC Christopher McMahon - I'm 68, so in comparison you're a lad. No insult or offense was implied or meant. Your replies -- except this last one -- have shown nothing but firm support for current regulations regarding beards, and some fair contempt for anyone who didn't agree with you. I don't agree with you. You don't agree with me. I'm fine with that; everyone is entitled to his own opinion.
Thanks for your service, SPC McMahon.
Thanks for your service, SPC McMahon.
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SPC Christopher McMahon
MAJ John Adams Major, I think possibly you’ve mistaken me for someone else (or you haven’t taken your meds.) At no time did I “show contempt” for anyone who didn’t agree with me. If any contempt was shown, it was by you (re-read your comment.) My opinion that beards do not look professional on a soldier, is just an opinion. If the Army changed the regulation tomorrow, it wouldn’t effect me nor would I care.
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MAJ John Adams
Do I really come across that way? I don't think so, and I've carefully read all of my comments. I hear you say that you're just expressing your personal opinion, but the way you're doing it comes across as a regulation quoting AR type. For all I know, you're a great guy to drink a beer with. So let's end this now. Is that all right with you?
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It’s simple economics Cody. We can’t grow beards because some general officer somehwere hasn’t had the opportunity to use that to make money or find his way into congress after service yet. Once that opportunity arrises rest assured that beards will be everywhere.
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MAJ John Adams
I always figured that the reason was that some general couldn't grow one as a lieutenant, back when they were all the rage in the service. When he got his stars, he decided that since he couldn't have a beard, neither could anyone else.
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I was always told it was to ensure a proper seal on a promask. On that note I have never seen other allied nations who allow facial hair doing mask training. Or the reasoning was to be professional looking. With the other examples you put, hair and tattoos, have standards in policy. Such as length of hair and where tattoos can be on the body. Facial hair is harder to "regulate" outside a mustache or clean shaven.
Personally, I like having a shaven face. My facial hair is itchy and reddish when I allow it to grow in. My beard also does not grow in very thick so I look like a 70's porn star. Or criminal. Same difference. My current civilian job requires being clean shaven just like the Army did so I am happy and used to that rule.
When I was overseas, there was a pool going to try and get me to grow a deployment stache. It got up to about $700 in my pocket if I grew one. The only other person who didn't grow one was my former squad leader, a very respected E-6. He was my hold out, if he grew one I would. And he never did.
Personally, I like having a shaven face. My facial hair is itchy and reddish when I allow it to grow in. My beard also does not grow in very thick so I look like a 70's porn star. Or criminal. Same difference. My current civilian job requires being clean shaven just like the Army did so I am happy and used to that rule.
When I was overseas, there was a pool going to try and get me to grow a deployment stache. It got up to about $700 in my pocket if I grew one. The only other person who didn't grow one was my former squad leader, a very respected E-6. He was my hold out, if he grew one I would. And he never did.
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SFC Lawrence Born
Deployed to both Iraq (09-10) and AFG (12)...number of masks issued to me? 0......add to that that a large amount of the crap that our current enemies would use masks would be ineffective against ......the "seal" issues is basically moot.
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PO3 James Dudley
when we were in gas chamber training for proper use of the chemical and biological masks we were trained on how to insure a proper seal....be clean shaven and have a properly fit mask, and on securing the mask to our heads
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SPC Earl Semler
When I was in the Navy was allowed to have beards but other services weren't not even the marines. When I asked my Sgt in Vietnam why the Navy could have them and we couldn't he came up with the perfect reason. He said if you get wounded in the face out in the jungle and have a beard the wound has a greater chance of getting infected, because your beard will have all sorts of crap on it.
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SPC Casey Ashfield
I went to Afghanistan in 2010. As part of the JLIST (I think that was the acronym) we had chemical masks. They were in vacuum sealed bags which eliminated the purpose of "fast deployment." But we also had mustache growing contests and pools. So NBC preparation was not a high priority.
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