Posted on Nov 13, 2017
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The Army allows people with full sleeve tattoos, criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people serve in the military. Clearly the Army isn't worried about looking professional or being professional. Numerous other Allied nations allow their service members to grow beards and have no problem with their SMs utilizing gas masks. Uniformity definitely isn't an issue either, since we have different hairstyles, uniforms, etc. What are your thoughts on this?
Edited >1 y ago
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Responses: 669
PO2 Raven Attwood
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28
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We can't grow beards because of arbitrary and outdated social conventions regarding what a "well groomed" military service member should look like. Regs are regs, of course, and advocating a change is not the same as advocating breaking the rules, but it is a fundamentally arbitrary rule, insofar as not everyone in all forces is in a position to need to be able to use a gas mask at a moment's notice. In other professional environments that do not have these types of rules, men still manage to look well-groomed and professional even with facial hair, and long hair on their heads even.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
4 y
You are about half correct on why not beards. But remember the military is about what it takes to be on the pointy end of the spear. And yes that is only about 3% of the force and many will never see a firearm. However the theory is all may at anytime find themselves with an 11B beside them. Ala battle of th bulge style
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SSG Joseph VanDyck
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You want to grow a full beard? Either go into Spec Ops and grow one while deployed or get out completely. Those are your only choices.
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MAJ Executive Officer
MAJ (Join to see)
6 y
I think he's asking why he can't...not where or how he can grow one.
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SPC Andrew Johnston
SPC Andrew Johnston
>1 y
Sorry, Joe, here in CBP, the Border Patrol can't grow beards, but the booth troopers, er, CBP officers at the ports can, so not just any job, he'll have to be selective...
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SSG Joseph VanDyck
SSG Joseph VanDyck
>1 y
SPC Johnston, what does CBP have to do with being active duty US Army and growing a beard?
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SPC David S.
24
24
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Surprised this one hasn't been mentioned yet - "If the Army wanted you to have a beard they would have issued you one"
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SSG Squad Leader
SSG (Join to see)
6 y
If the army wanted you to shave they would of issued you one.
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SGT Patrick Wells
SGT Patrick Wells
6 y
PV2 Terry Carney - I had that problem. we shaved a 4 am. We then had formation at 8. My beard was already starting to show by 8. I usually tried to slip back into the barracks and do a quick shave again prior to 8. I didn't make it a few times. I got the privilege of dry shaving in formation on those days.
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SPC Medical Specialist
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6 y
I seem to recall them telling us if the army didn't issue you a beard then you can't have one. Besides that and tattoos would be out of uniform.
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SPC Rifleman
SPC (Join to see)
>1 y
Yeah but then there is this gem that goes hand in hand with that statement if the army wanted you to use wet weather gear they would have issued it to you. Well they did and we were never allowed to use it.
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CW2 Construction Engineering Technician
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Ok, so....what really concerns me about the “beardgate” discussion is that we are men. Most of us have a God given genetic ability to grow a full badass beard. Now, with that said. We as men should not be concerned only with the professionalism of the beard. Hell, it’s a symbol of masculinity. It looks damn good and profession in just about any situation. Again, we are men arguing the professionalism of our own facial hair. Doesn’t that seem odd??? You will tell me that an Soldier in the Special Operations community looks cool and professional, but all of a sudden you see average GI Joe with a beard and he’s out of uniform?? Give me a break! If we as a society and an Army are trying to be more politically correct, then we shouldn’t simply make concessions for religious purposes. If that’s the case then the pastafari Soldier should be able to wear a camo colander. Let’s push beyond the argument of Masks and professionalism. Afterall....we are men
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CW3 Chief Of Police
CW3 (Join to see)
>1 y
I disagree that SF looks professional. Most of the time, their beards are not necessary. It's just another way to separate themselves form the main Army/Navy.
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MSG Dude
MSG (Join to see)
>1 y
I love it. I wish I could have voted you up a hundred times.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
4 y
There you go assuming everyone can grow a beard. It ain’t so I can’t and one son can’t but the other needs to shave twice a day lots of the time. But what sort of beard you want. Big full never touched by a razor or one of those that really looks like he just didn’t shave a couple days.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
23
23
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Personally, I'm getting a LOT of gray hair in my beard.....so I'm keeping it clean shave.
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COL Vincent Stoneking
COL Vincent Stoneking
>1 y
Same here. I'm participating in movemeber for the first time ever and my face is turning mighty white. I have a few grey hairs on my head, but my beard (such as it is) is almost pure white...
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PVT Christine Shaw
PVT Christine Shaw
6 y
I'm proud of my silver...I earned every strand of it. Among other things, my ex-husband is great at driving me bananas, but were it not for him, I would not be here now. We divorced in 2009 after 25 years together, but we still get along great. Our friends say we should remarry. It's amazing that they tend to ignore that we're getting along so well because we don't live together. Has anyone else had that experience too?
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PO2 Larry Hensch
PO2 Larry Hensch
6 y
Beard is mostly gray now. I say it is hereditary, you get it from your kids!
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SPC(P) Warren Soriano
SPC(P) Warren Soriano
6 y
My grey comes in unevenly. If I let it grow even a little, it looks like I've been eating powdered donuts - which may or may not not be true...
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SSG James Behnke
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Your argument for beards includes quite a few insinuations and mischaracterizations. To say the Army now allows "psychotic" people to join is not just an exaggeration, but downright false. I believe you have higher standards than that. Do some real research or don't include statements like that.
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PVT Christine Shaw
PVT Christine Shaw
6 y
I saw that too. If I remember correctly, disciplinary problems were given the choice to join the military or go to jail, or that was the case when I was younger. Everybody is acting like its a big surprise? It's been going on all along. Now, with this intense focus on mental issues because of recent current events, people are beginning to pay attention. Also, I need to point out, that if one goes in with minimal mental issues, by the time they are discharged, those minimal issues would have blown up into major one. I firmly believe that NO ONE goes through the service and comes out unscathed. The tattoo part is new, however, and I can see how tatts can clash with a clean, military appearance, but it doesn't mean the wearer has a bad character. I'm sure there are clean cut "military" types that would slit your throat for kicks. Drug and alcohol abuse runs through all facets of life, and no matter how hard they screen, you're going to get alkies and druggies. It's just human nature, and humans aren't perfect. Besides, "perfect" and "normal" (whatever that is), is highly overrated.
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SrA Arnold Costello
SrA Arnold Costello
6 y
I got medically retired when my Bi-Polar Disorder got diagnosed.
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SPC William Heads
SPC William Heads
>1 y
PVT Christine Shaw I don’t completely agree with you. I have suffered from PTSD since the age of 11 and it actually made me a better infantryman!
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PVT Christine Shaw
PVT Christine Shaw
>1 y
I had issues from losing a parent early and sexual assault prior to my military service as well. I'm also a stubborn, independent, competitive personality, I grew up in the 'hood, which gave me an education in self defense, escape and evasion, and other skills. The military made them better. On the other side, I suffered what I considered a traumatic brain injury (poisoned with drugs), and was threatened with prosecution and lifetime incarceration for a crime I knew I didn't commit. I fought back and won, but I got a general discharge, which ended my dreams of a military career. Then, I suffered a psychotic break which led to years of fighting the system for the benefits I receive now (I'm sure they hoped I would suicide along the way, but I did not). The totality of that experience made me the person I am now: I live successfully on my own with support from the VA system. I still have to resist uncomfortable thoughts and impulses and its a very tiring fight, but I am now better equipped to do it. No matter how well the system thinks it can weed out undesirables, they still slip through the cracks. My concern is that the obviously unstable ones are being let in. Trump granted access to firearms to the one segment of people who should not have that under any circumstances and look what's happened. I've been reading that enlistments are down, especially here in the Midwest. With the high suicide rates among Veterans because they aren't getting the help they deserve after discharge, do you wonder that young people aren't seeing the military as a career choice these days?
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SPC David S.
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A 2012 study found that facial hair provided some protection from the sun's harmful UV rays. Beards also reduce the rashes and acne that come from shaving, hold in your face's natural moisturizers and trap allergens from entering your airways. Seems like there are benefits.
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MAJ Bill Maynard
MAJ Bill Maynard
6 y
And beards are great for saving bits of food you may want/need later when you don't have time to stop what you're doing
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PV2 Radio Operator Maintainer
PV2 (Join to see)
>1 y
The only time I get ance is when I grow my hair out.
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PV2 Radio Operator Maintainer
PV2 (Join to see)
>1 y
I mean my facial hair by the way.
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SSgt Avionics Craftsman
SSgt (Join to see)
5 y
Yeah I don’t want cancer
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SPC Roger Giffen
17
17
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You can always get discharged from the US Army and then enlist in any ther Army you wish. Uniformity is uniformity. Regulations are regulations. Just do as you are told and do it as well as you can
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SPC Leo Van Groll
SPC Leo Van Groll
>1 y
Well said !
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MSG Dan Castaneda
MSG Dan Castaneda
6 y
"Do what your told." What? "But Sergeant I don't understand why we are doing this." You are a toxic leader.

The military today.
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MSG Louis Alexander
MSG Louis Alexander
6 y
Castaneda don't forget them handing you a "Stress" card.
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SSG Plt Sgt, Adso, Bn Motorcycle Mentor
SSG (Join to see)
6 y
I was once told a complaining soldier is a happy soldier. Simply stating to dfo as your told and follow regulations is actua lot counterproductive to the argument. Personally I am trying to have as long a military career as possible, I also would like to have some facial hair (would have helped in the FT. Drum winters), but as of current those to wisdhes don't coincide so i follow regulations and shave until either the regulation changes or i retire. This does not mean i am not entitled to my opinion and should be quickly shut down with statements along the lines of "it does what it's told" in an informal forum such as this.
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SSG Lance Wendling
14
14
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Operators are able to wear beards because not only is shaving nearly 100% impractical for them, but there are times when they need to blend in with indigenous peoples.
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SSG Special Forces Engineer Sergeant
SSG (Join to see)
6 y
Not to blend it. But in many Muslim countries facial hair is a sign of masculinity. When you’re required to train, advise and assist and culture with those beliefs? It’s necessary to be able to gain that cultures respect. It just so happens something as simple as a beard can help with greatly.
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MAJ Bill Maynard
MAJ Bill Maynard
6 y
SSG (Join to see) - Yeah so is beating your wife and kids, but we certainly don't want to emulate that behavior
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SGT UH-60 Helicopter Repairer
SGT (Join to see)
>1 y
It is not "impractical" for them, even at the worst, it's inconvenient.

Having a beard has been considered more masculine than clean shaven by many cultures. (Something there Army does not consider in the decision.)
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SGT Jimmy Russo
SGT Jimmy Russo
5 y
an please dont sexuall harass The Goats !!
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MSgt Gerald Orvis
14
14
0
The gas mask reason is the primary reason the various branches of service prohibit beards. But the Navy allowed beards into the 1980's before they were finally prohibited. I recall that Navy men who wanted a beard had to have permission and their ID card photo had to reflect the beard, and they couldn't shave it off without command permission. We had a Navy LT who had a beard, and on the cut-off day for beards, he was a VERY unhappy LT when he came in clean-shaven. While I was on active duty in the Marine Corps, I had a moustache for many years (even while I was on the drill field) - I was careful to keep it exactly within regulations. But one day, my division commander (a MajGen) in Okinawa told a colonel on his staff that there was just something that he didn't like about a moustache on a Marine, and suddenly I was getting called in and told by my LtCol that he'd consider it a personal favor if I shaved it off. So I did - grew it back later when the MajGen realized his error and that he should be more careful what he said.

My study of military history revealed that the 18th and 19th century military services followed civilian trends with regard to appearance - while there were very specific uniform regulations, there were no grooming regulations in the Marine Corps or the other services before the late 1890's. And no gas masks, either. Hence, the Burnside look and (if you look at old military photos), longer hair. I use Custer as an example of that. In the 1890's, civilian fashion changed to short hair and less facial hair (moustaches only). The official excuse was that short hair was to combat head lice, but it was actually following civilian fashion. And that has stuck with us. All this was encapsulated in grooming regulations starting in the WWI period, when the military wanted to prevent head lice and make everybody look alike even more than they had before. And short hair and a clean-shaven face requires so much less care, which is important in a field environment.
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SPC Brian Aranda
SPC Brian Aranda
>1 y
Sooo...the "Man-Bun" is going to hit the military fashion scene soon? :D
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SPC Military Intelligence Systems Maintainer/Integrator
SPC (Join to see)
>1 y
I've gotta disagree with you there on the "requires less care..." comment. I've had a beard (albeit not a very magnificent one) and have obviously gone without. My neck truly dislikes being shaven, and, as such, I have a somewhat tedious ritual of witch hazel, face cleaner, alcohol, frequent blade changes, and a consistent change of shaving cream brand in order to keep my neck and face from getting irritated and breaking out. It woukd be a huge benefit to me, and many other SM's that Ive helped with the same issue, to no longer have to spend time or money on that ritual. I'm not saying that because of few, we should change the many, but I don't disagree with a potential regulation change on this matter, either. There are benefits.
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John Hermsen
John Hermsen
6 y
Shaving could kill you in the days before antibiotics and germ theory. A cut from a dirty razor and it could be the end.
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