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The Army allows people with full sleeve tattoos, criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people serve in the military. Clearly the Army isn't worried about looking professional or being professional. Numerous other Allied nations allow their service members to grow beards and have no problem with their SMs utilizing gas masks. Uniformity definitely isn't an issue either, since we have different hairstyles, uniforms, etc. What are your thoughts on this?
Uniforms
DA Pam 670-1
Facial Hair
Professionalism
Grooming Standards
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 669
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Wow! So, you can walk into your neighbourhood Army Recruiting Station, even though you are a convicted felon, crack addict, schizophrenic paranoid, with wrist to shoulder Disney princess tattoos, and be all you can be? Not likely! Nobody needs to make mission that badly. There are cracks in the system, and some slip through, but it is not norm. Even if it was, the answer isn't to lesson standards, but to tighten them up.
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MSG Louis Alexander
So other then demeaning the Army, what you’re saying is the Corps is squeaky clean. Umm, If I had to guess anyone who was or is a convicted felon, doper, schizophrenic or sports a tattoo will kill you just as fast as let’s say, a Marine right? Or perhaps Marines possess this fantasy of being intellectually and physically superior over everyone else. Surly some slip through the cracks as well, and even make it to Gunnery Sergeant – amazing.
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GySgt Charles O'Connell
MSG Louis Alexander - I'm not demeaning the U.S. Army at all. I don't believe for a moment that, as the original poster suggests, the U.S. Army actively recruits,"...people with full sleeve tattoos, criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people serve in the military..." I do know that recruiting duty for all the service branches is demanding tour of duty, that recruiters, by and large, seek out that best qualified applicants. Recruiters targeting, again as the original poster suggests, "...people with full sleeve tattoos, criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people serve in the military...", is myth, as these types of applicants do not meet the standard, and the shear number of waivers required to try and get them in makes them a waste of the recruiters valuable time.
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I think you read a false news story somewhere. In the 1990's I worked at USAREC HQ supporting their IT for their enlistment process. All USAREC level waivers and I mean all USAREC level waivers are submitted to Congress for review where the various Congressional staff members cherry pick specific waivers out of the pile and ask the CG of USAREC who usually is sitting before them why he feels the specific waiver is OK and why it was granted. Trust me, they are not going to grant a waiver under that kind of supervisory regime unless they are fairly certain the applicant is not going to represent a danger or a threat to the force.
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SPC Don Daniel
I think they are speaking of shaving profiles when they are talking about medical waivers. When I served, I frequently maintained a shaving profile. My facial hair is coarse and curly and keeping it close shaven often results in a ton of ingrown hairs and irritation.
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CPT (Join to see)
I believe someone was pulling your leg while you were at UASREC. General military waivers are not decided by congress. If you think it's bad up there now, imagine the backup in the halls of congress with the shuffling of about 80,000,000 pages of documents relating to enlistments! The only promotions (including waivers for age, etc.) that routinely involve Congress relate to the promotion of General Officers. All other waivers are handled at the service level (e.g. Dept. of the Army) or most often at a much lower level. Medical waivers that cannot be addressed at a lower level are handled by the Office of the Surgeon General within each respective service. For the most part there are waivers for just about everything you can imagine, and guidance is provided by Army, Navy (including USMC?), Air Force and Coast Guard Regs. or US Code. The JAG corps can become involved in some situations and DOD in others. No, "Joe Snuffy's" application for a waiver is not handled at the Congressional level.
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"The Army allows people with full sleeve tattoos, criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people serve in the military."?
Tattoos have been an on again off again debate about what image we want to present to the American public. Criminal history? Waivers for non-violent offenders and at one time was used rehabilitate a person in service to the country. Not always successful. As for the other troubling characteristics, blame your chain of command for not doing a better job chaptering individuals for failing to meet Army standards of fitness, discipline, and conduct.
As for the facial hair, again has to do with the clean image for public appearance and how facial hair caused problems for the earlier versions of gas masks. Times have change but the main argument will come down to "what image of a soldier do we want to advertise?".
Tattoos have been an on again off again debate about what image we want to present to the American public. Criminal history? Waivers for non-violent offenders and at one time was used rehabilitate a person in service to the country. Not always successful. As for the other troubling characteristics, blame your chain of command for not doing a better job chaptering individuals for failing to meet Army standards of fitness, discipline, and conduct.
As for the facial hair, again has to do with the clean image for public appearance and how facial hair caused problems for the earlier versions of gas masks. Times have change but the main argument will come down to "what image of a soldier do we want to advertise?".
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Ever tried putting on your gas mask and getting a 100% tight seal with a beard? Yes it is because the military says so but also because of readiness.
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Suspended Profile
It would be nice, but can you imagine how unprofessional a lot of soldiers would look.
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It must be an Army thing. The Air Force don’t let in over weight people. My daughter is trying to join but they told her she has to lose 16lbs first and I haven’t heard about letting people in with dissorders. I know if you are already in and developed a disorder you can stay of it don’t prevent you from duty and if you become over weight after joining than they let you stay in if you can pass a PT test. If you fail 3 PT test in a row you are out the military
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
And I never said they explicitly allow fat people to join. I said that I’ve seen overweight people serving in the army.
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SSG(P) (Join to see) That is the grooming standards. Civilian jobs may allow beards but most do have grooming standards along with a dress code. I do not think beards should be allowed.
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Lice. Soldiers live in close quarters, like jails and prisons. A lice infestation is hard to beat with long hair and a beard.
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PO2 Raven Attwood
I cannot fathom what you think marital status has to do with how long a female soldier or sailor grows their hair, sir.
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SSG (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) - What about all of the soldier that don't even have a mask to put on. I was not issued one on my last deployment. The other deployments it would have taken a lot of time to pull it out from the bottom of my bags.
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CPT (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - You cannot be blamed for the short-sightedness of your command. However you are a senior NCO, you know from experience that it should be carried by every soldier within your command influence. Reach out to a QM / Logistics SSG you know and see how many masks (or masks with hoods) they have have available to be drawn. Bring this information to your Company Commander and express your concerns in a well thought out and logical manner. Hopefully he will have the sense to at least equip his command with the minimally appropriate MOPP masks. I will leave what to do if he has no sense to colonels and above or VERY experienced long serving MSGs and above. Remember you cannot (kiss butt or) exceed expectations for promotion if you're dead. I never operated without a mask. There is a reason.
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SSG (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) - Sir I understand that you have a concern for CBRN attack that has never been a major concern in any area of operation that I have been in. I work a Garrison mission now and my Unit is not authorized a pro mask. I have not had a mask or been in a unit with a mask in years. That is my issue with using the pro mask as the reason for the entire army to strictly remain clean shaven. I can understand it in certain AO or unit or a time when pro masks are needed.
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