Posted on Aug 5, 2014
Why do so many service members feel they are owed something once they get out/retire?
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I always hear young Marines talking big about when they get out how they are owed a high salary once they seperate because they spent the past XX amount of years defending the country etc etc etc. What I don't understand is why they feel this way when the majority of them have done nothing to further their education while in the service. So many young NCOs feel that since they led/managed in the military especially in combat that they are destined to jump right into a middle or upper management job upon seperation. It reminds me of the movie Cocktail when Tom Cruise's character gets out of the Army and is interviewing on Wall St and says he will start at the bottom and is told that he is aiming too high. What can we do to temper our troops expectations upon seperation?
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 13
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I've been working in staffing and with young vets for over a decade and I can tell you much of what you hear on active duty is just talk... Marines being Marines. Once in an office with a recruiter the truth comes out and they are mostly humble, self-deprecating and honest to a fault. Most of the time those high salary expectations are made when comparing civilian sector wages vs what you are making for same basic skills. Once out and reality sets in those sights are lowered or met or even exceeded based on the economy, the market, the business need as well as location. There are a lot of vets working in the civilian hiring sector who are watching their backs and setting realistic expectations.
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SSgt Gregory Guina
Sir thank you for your input. I try and talk with all my separating Marines and try to manage their expectations well before they depart. At the same time you often have to explain to them that the 12 dollars an hour they were making in HS is no longer a wage that is going to support them. It is a difficult thing to do but I hope that my Marines are prepared to exit the service with the advice that I give them.
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CWO2 Shelby DuBois
Setting expectations and being honest in the endeavor is often the hardest challenge. Good job on your part. Once an EAS date is set its easy to get wrapped up in finishing up, checking out and getting on home. Many come to me with the lopsided expectation that everything will just fall into place. The hard reality is that they have to realize they are jumping into a still weak economy and the competition for jobs are compounded by not only civilians looking for work, but a military drawdown that is pitting vet against vet in many of the jobs. Hang in there and keep setting expectations. Being prepared is half the battle.
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PO2 (Join to see)
When I got out, it was hard to find a job. It was because employers thought I was TOO qualified, and wanted too much money. Since the mid 1900's I have been abdicating colleges accept military education. But, colleges want more tuition money. The way I got jobs was showing what I can do.
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How can you expect a high salary when you haven't prepared yourself for leaving the military? I've always been an advocate of getting as much education as you can while your in. Put yourself in a position not only to advance in the military but to make your self more marketable once you do get out. You have to be prepared when you get out, to expect that the private sector is going to kiss your ass and give you what you want is ludicrous! The only thing that being prior military will do is get your foot in the door the rest is up to you. You are competing with a younger workforce whose probably better educated and again younger than you are. After I was hired at my job the company decided they were going to hire a younger workforce and wanted us older workers to train them. Not a problem if they would show up to work on time! Any way prepare yourself and don't expect the private sector is going to kiss your feet because you are prior military. My thoughts.
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PO1 Rudy Lopez
Nicely put. I definitely agree with you balance of the younger/older workforce. I wrote a thesis paper on this subject a while back. Educators were a little annoyed when I pitted the older experienced vs the young and freshly educated.
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Capt Christian Olson
Gentlemen. I must say that if you are a generalist and not a technichian with a direct position in the civilian world, then it is PARAMOUNT that you get an education. All those civilians are getting their degrees, this makes the barrier to entry higher. I know it sucks, but it is expected in today's market. It is hard and it will be difficult on the family but a degree will open doors.
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PO2 Anthony Franchino
What you all are failing to realize is that an education DOES NOT guarantee you a better paying job. In fact, there are many people that have their master's degree and are flipping burgers because no one is hiring right now or have you forgotten the economy today? I am a prime example. I haven't had a full time job since 2005 even with all the experience I have with the military and civilian sector. I haven't had any job at all since 2010. In March of 2010 I started going to school for my bachelor's degree and December 20th of 2013 I finished my Master's degree. That's 3 years, 9 months it took with no prior college experience to get my Bachelor's in Accounting and Master's in Management/Leadership and I still can't find even an entry level management position in which I deserve because make no mistake, I have the experience and now the education to show that I deserve a mid level, not entry, but I know that I won't get a mid level.
You all can debate it all you want and you all have very valid points, but none of you will ever come to an agreement because we ALL think differently about these things. Overseas a person that does just 2 years of service not only is handed a job, but a house and a car to start him off with. Nothing extravagant mind you, but something to start them on their own path and what they do with it is up to them. If America is indeed a super power, we should definitely treat our honorably discharged service members at least as good as other countries, if not better. I am a firm believe that, depending on the rank, MOS/rate, time in service a person in the military puts in, should determine what they get when they are honorably discharged. Most of the military members are given an education when they get out with the G. I. Bill and 9/11 Bill, there is another way for a Veteran to get an education that few know of, which is the way I got my education.
Not all of us are fortunate enough to be lucky to have a job no matter how hard we try, no matter how good our resume is. Don't forget, the one job you are applying for, 100 more might be applying for that same job. I applied for a job as a General Manager of a bowling alley on Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn. I received an email that stated I qualified for this position, but there was someone else that was more qualified. My councilor at the VA couldn't believe it, neither could I because she's seen my resume, she's helped me for the past 4 years to try and get a job and knows what I've been going through and also knows that no one can be more qualified for this position. Someone can be as qualified though. Don't always presume that an education is the end all to getting a job because it's not. Oh, and before you think my gpa must have been low, which might be a reason I'm not getting a job, I had a 3.69 for my Bachelor's and 3.36 for my Master's. I'm also a disabled American Veteran. Whether you feel this way or not, we owe a great deal to past, present, and future service members and should give them what they deserve so that they don't become a statistic like the 400,000+ homeless veterans that are out there today.
You all can debate it all you want and you all have very valid points, but none of you will ever come to an agreement because we ALL think differently about these things. Overseas a person that does just 2 years of service not only is handed a job, but a house and a car to start him off with. Nothing extravagant mind you, but something to start them on their own path and what they do with it is up to them. If America is indeed a super power, we should definitely treat our honorably discharged service members at least as good as other countries, if not better. I am a firm believe that, depending on the rank, MOS/rate, time in service a person in the military puts in, should determine what they get when they are honorably discharged. Most of the military members are given an education when they get out with the G. I. Bill and 9/11 Bill, there is another way for a Veteran to get an education that few know of, which is the way I got my education.
Not all of us are fortunate enough to be lucky to have a job no matter how hard we try, no matter how good our resume is. Don't forget, the one job you are applying for, 100 more might be applying for that same job. I applied for a job as a General Manager of a bowling alley on Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn. I received an email that stated I qualified for this position, but there was someone else that was more qualified. My councilor at the VA couldn't believe it, neither could I because she's seen my resume, she's helped me for the past 4 years to try and get a job and knows what I've been going through and also knows that no one can be more qualified for this position. Someone can be as qualified though. Don't always presume that an education is the end all to getting a job because it's not. Oh, and before you think my gpa must have been low, which might be a reason I'm not getting a job, I had a 3.69 for my Bachelor's and 3.36 for my Master's. I'm also a disabled American Veteran. Whether you feel this way or not, we owe a great deal to past, present, and future service members and should give them what they deserve so that they don't become a statistic like the 400,000+ homeless veterans that are out there today.
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CPO Jim Turner
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To answer the main question, "Why do so many service members feel they are owed something once they get out/retire?" One of the reasons is because it is pumped into our heads while active duty how important our training is and how it can apply to jobs on the outside. As a corpsman who when on for additional training as an operating room technician, I felt it would be easy for me to find a job. I looked some at the end of my first 6 years, but realized I didn't have what it takes, so I continued my education. At retirement, I left with a BS in Health Care Admin and MS in Information Systems.
As PO2 Franchino states, an education does not guarantee a high paying job. This is true, I had the "dream" employers would knock down my door to hire me. As I said, this was a dream. I searched for about 6 months prior to retirement and landed a job in the last 3 weeks.
The current feeling of the youth is, people who attend school are owed a good job. Look at what happened a few years ago with "Occupy Wall Street". These kids not only thought that they should get the 6 figure job, but they shouldn't have to pay for their schooling. Those currently in the service are "promised" to get a hand up when looking for jobs, and lots of companies state they want to hire military, but either those getting out do not coordinate well with the companies or their training doesn't match what the companies are looking for.
I got my current job, as a GS Employee in Northern VA by networking with other people at church. This is the tried and true way of getting employed. Employers want to see you out there doing what you can do before they hire you. What better way to show leadership than leading a committee for some activity.
Bottom line, landing that great job is not as easy as it sounds. My suggestion is to keep looking, lots of jobs are available, you just need to find the right fit.
RNSMFELQDUSCOUUUUOTFOSGGDT
H2104106E412CEDD
JIM-PC Network
PaBP5WwiNldJ2os23JBFvP
AP PIN 76997525
Vollara Login Info
Customer #1022621
To answer the main question, "Why do so many service members feel they are owed something once they get out/retire?" One of the reasons is because it is pumped into our heads while active duty how important our training is and how it can apply to jobs on the outside. As a corpsman who when on for additional training as an operating room technician, I felt it would be easy for me to find a job. I looked some at the end of my first 6 years, but realized I didn't have what it takes, so I continued my education. At retirement, I left with a BS in Health Care Admin and MS in Information Systems.
As PO2 Franchino states, an education does not guarantee a high paying job. This is true, I had the "dream" employers would knock down my door to hire me. As I said, this was a dream. I searched for about 6 months prior to retirement and landed a job in the last 3 weeks.
The current feeling of the youth is, people who attend school are owed a good job. Look at what happened a few years ago with "Occupy Wall Street". These kids not only thought that they should get the 6 figure job, but they shouldn't have to pay for their schooling. Those currently in the service are "promised" to get a hand up when looking for jobs, and lots of companies state they want to hire military, but either those getting out do not coordinate well with the companies or their training doesn't match what the companies are looking for.
I got my current job, as a GS Employee in Northern VA by networking with other people at church. This is the tried and true way of getting employed. Employers want to see you out there doing what you can do before they hire you. What better way to show leadership than leading a committee for some activity.
Bottom line, landing that great job is not as easy as it sounds. My suggestion is to keep looking, lots of jobs are available, you just need to find the right fit.
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Leaving the service is all about the preparation before you get out. For some, the preparation is 20 years or more, gaining education, leadership and management experience, and skills. However, the most important position you must take when you get out is that you have to humble yourself to the point of saying that no one owes you anything. If you are getting out and you have the expectant attitude to have something handed to you, you will be humbled fairly quickly. Getting a great job boils down to one fact: how you market yourself. In the job market today, there are so many applicants for every job to choose from. Unfortunately a resume screener takes about 30 seconds to scan your resume, and if they see something that stands out that meets a criteria for the job they are trying to fill, then you have a foot in the door, but that does not guarantee that you will be hired. You can say in so many words that you served in the military and did this or that, but those actions do not necessarily transfer into skills required for a particular civilian position. The only thing we should expect as a veteran is respect for serving our country, and yet there are employers in our own country that do not give a rat’s behind if you served or not. It comes down to being a business decision to hire you or not. In no way shape or form does serving in the military translate into owing you a job or better pay. You have to admit, though, that through your service, you have acquired so many skills and have lived a regimented life of good character, but those are the intangible qualities that are hard to put on paper and will only come out in an interview or once hired. I am glad to see many corporations hiring veterans for all of the right reasons, but even they have a screening process and will hire personnel based on what they can bring to the company. I left the service after 27 years four years ago with three masters degrees and a boat load of skills and training. I have gone through a number of hiring processes and jobs. A few of them were low paying jobs, but in this economy sometimes you have to humble yourself to the bottom rung of the ladder. Just because I wore four stripes in the Navy did not guarantee me anything. It takes time and persistence to land a great job. I finally did, but it took me quite some time to do so. I have seen some guys roll right into great opportunities fresh out of the service. Those are the exception and not the norm. Nobody owes you anything. Start with that attitude, and then market yourself.
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Whether or not one is "owed" something for your service is really irrelevant in the civilian job market, unless its in the context of veterans preference for a GS job. If one has that attitude, chances are that's not going to translate well when networking and looking for employment. Employers will thank you for your service - sometimes - but what's most important is being able to demonstrate in language they understand how you can benefit their company.
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I think many service members look back upon their careers and figure the paychecks weren't enough compensation for their experiences. The nation holds a high respect four service members as a stereotype, and this gets into service members' heads. They feel that being the one percent of the population who sacrificed a lot for their country, and they deserve more than just a paycheck. They are used to "military discounts", free healthcare benefits, tax free housing and food allowances, and other benefits. They get accustomed to a lifestyle of having all of the basics taken care of, and think life will always be that way. At military installations all over the world, you see expensive cars, designer clothes, and high value electronics. This is due to the benefits our government provides the service members. They can afford to live lavishly with housing, food, and health insurance already provided. When they decide to leave service, they feel they are owed the same pleasures for the rest of their lives.
This is, of course, my opinion on the matter. But I firmly believe it to be true. Also, with inflation comes more expectation.
This is, of course, my opinion on the matter. But I firmly believe it to be true. Also, with inflation comes more expectation.
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SSgt Guina I can understand what these SM perhaps may be thinking, I was pretty much like them. By that I meant (Working in wall Street, in an office, making allot of money), dreams are far different then reality. Yet what caused me to think as such was the fact that I ran and worked as a leader in a communications shop responsible for expensive equipment. Instead looking for a job when out was not what I expected. Considering that I never got any real help from anyone to teach me how or where to look for a job, my first job was messenger. Yes I did get to visit Wall Street and I saw with my own eyes how unrealistic that dream was. Today I'm a computer Technician and yes I did work at 60 Wall Street for the past 5 years. Now I'm unemployed. But to work in wall Street doing office work, is something I would never do, not even if the pay were good. Lets just say its not me. What I'm saying by this is that no matter how one may feel, nothing out here is for ever. I have had many jobs since I been out and have worked in many different companies doing IT. Being in the military seemed as if you can hold a job forever, get pay raises then retire with out a problem. Out here that is far from reality. I have seen people with PDH's (Actual Medical Doctors) homeless living in shelters and while education may be something its up to those who do the hiring that will decide if they hire you or not. While I may be in IT doesn't mean I have a wonderful career, it's who is looking to hire and how much they need you. Interesting part is that those who do the hiring are themselves in this same exact boat, they can also lose there jobs and find themselves in the unemployment line. One of the best things I can say is that anyone can find a job, but a career is something you are willing to do until you retire in your late age and in both one can always lose there jobs specially with the way the economy is today. I have been out of the active duty Army since 1986, and these were the actual lessons I have learned the hard way. I don't expect anyone whom in currently act to understand nor tell there subordinates on what to expect when that SM is out unless they themselves have lived such experiences. But then again that's why we have RP and there are allot of veterans here to share our experiences and or help all SM to the best we can.
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Many boast what they are told. Not often do they reach out to their peers following separation for a reality check. Bottom line in my experience is most end up in school or training. Many land respectable positions with salary’s in the mid 40 to 50 and work on it from there. There is a-lot of competition out their. Many should look into local or federal law enforcement. Those qualified with personnel, or technical trades should look into federal while they navigate through the realities of the private sector.
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I know old post. However, I once worked with a freshly retired SSG who thought she was literally owed a management or supervisory position. Yeah ok, doesn't work that way and me and her butted heads quite often because of her entitled attitude. You have to start out at a lower position a lot of the time and working your way up is doable.
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Well, let's see...Our troops should always understand that while they are in the service, 'the service' is the center of their world. They must live, breath, serve the mission they took an oath to defend and support. Break, Break...once you are done with this part of your life, our troops must understand they are entering another world. A world far different than the one they are leaving and this new world will welcome their maturity, their leadership skills, their technical talents, etc. as long, repeat, as long, as they can market and sell themselves in this new world. They need to understand that while they were on the frontiers of defense and walking in harm's way there were others that lived in the world they are now entering and those people speak the language, walk the walk, and are very likely better networked. If you cannot sell yourself in this new world then expect the new world to look at you askance. They don't know you. You come from a world they've read about, a world apart from anything they've ever known. You must work doubly hard to convince them you can do the job. You must immerse yourself in their world. Get out of your old world and embrace their world. Show them that what you bring to the 'new world' table is worth it for them to sit down with you. Discuss your attributes and how it will help them, not about all the things you did in Iraq and AF. Talk about how your talents will make them a better company!!!
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