Posted on May 16, 2015
Why do some people feel the need to be openly antagonistic to Christians?
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Why is it that there are people out there who feel it's their duty to abuse others verbally? I'm asking this in the context of people specifically going on the offensive because they are atheist (think Richard Dawkins, only more abusive), and the other person claims a faith, usually Christianity.
I mean, I know people who have NO beliefs in common with mine, but we can have philosophical discussions all day long without any animosity. Then there's the rather witty and very intelligent people that, once they discover a person is a Christian, flip a switch and become a shark in a feeding frenzy...
I can respect your lack of faith, even though it saddens me. I only ask that you respect mine.
***Editing Note: On 21 May 2015, I removed the tag "Politics." As the OP, I don't intend this question as an antagonistic one nor do I intend it as a political one. I am simply attempting to gain insight into the motivation behind behavior that I have personally witnessed.
I mean, I know people who have NO beliefs in common with mine, but we can have philosophical discussions all day long without any animosity. Then there's the rather witty and very intelligent people that, once they discover a person is a Christian, flip a switch and become a shark in a feeding frenzy...
I can respect your lack of faith, even though it saddens me. I only ask that you respect mine.
***Editing Note: On 21 May 2015, I removed the tag "Politics." As the OP, I don't intend this question as an antagonistic one nor do I intend it as a political one. I am simply attempting to gain insight into the motivation behind behavior that I have personally witnessed.
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 74
Because a great deal of time Christians are Just as aggressive and antagonistic of their faith. Case in point. There has been a discussion about some bases restricting what religious services are supported and which are not. Christians immediately are defending the notion. Primarily because as the majority they are not in harm of it affecting them and because they are the majority in the service a great many things are geared towards Christian practices (ceremonies, choice worship times, training endexed to accommodate Christian services only etc.) However as soon as anything threatens Christianity, oh boy. Watch out. There is immediately an outpouring of righteous indignation and the trampling of Christian freedoms and how Christians are constantly persecuted etc etc etc. I am a Christian and even I can see it. Case in point two: a SGM who walked into a training environment with a God hates fags t shirt and how the Christian Right advocates the killing of homosexuals. When delicately informed (respectfully pulled aside and quietly discussed) that he should in fact remove the shirt and the reg on proselytizing and EO was shown to him, he immediately became openly hostile and loud and combative. Yes. It's his right to believe that his Christianity is anti gay. It's a Christians right to spread the word. HOWEVER it is not their right to do so in uniform, force others to listen or take part, or feel intimidated or uncomfortable in order for Christians to practice their constitutional freedoms. Remember that our freedoms end when they infringe upon the freedoms of others and vice versa. So you ask the question why are people so antagonistic of Christians and I would say it's because of just how vocal, adamant, hostile and defensive Christians become when faced with people who don't share their faith and won't just roll over and allow it to take place. I have seen leadership, who are devout, absolutely black ball and fail to support soldiers who do not share the leaderships religious beliefs or practice other varying beliefs. I am reminded of this disparity every time I have a Muslim or jewish or Buddhist student that I am required to mandatorily force to attend a graduation ceremony where we practice Christian rites and prayers, even saying "in christs name..." During prayers (or listing in the program invocation and benediction, inherently Christian rites), and I bring it up to the powers that be that we should either make it optional to attend or remove that part from the ceremony and it starts a huge argument. So yes. As a Christian, I would say that it's more a conditioned response based on the expected and reinforced behaviors of the Christians we so often deal with. Now. NOT ALL Christians are like this. In fact Id say the majority are not, but the ones who are not seem to be the ones we most often deal with.
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SFC Don Ward
MSG(P) (Join to see) - But you are not saying anything to those that may have given you a "thumbs up" and not commented? Kind of hypocritical, isn't it?
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MSG(P) (Join to see)
It's not hypocritical. This is the place to make your opinion known and explain your logic. I have already done so. Simply thumbs downing something doesn't say anything. Nor does it explain what exactly you disliked or disagreed with. I don't need to say anything to those that commented or made a thumbs up because I have already said or voiced a point they agree with. If you disagree say so and we can discuss.
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SFC Don Ward
It is hypocritical - if you connected or made a point that someone agrees with, then they should comment on what the connection was or what point they agreed with, not hide in the background like some mute cheerleader. Thumbs up your post, for sure, but comment what they think was right.
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MSG(P) (Join to see)
Your argument makes absolutely zero sense and has zero to do with the topic at hand, that mind you is MONTHs old. I appreciate your comments. Feel free to make more if you choose but I won't continue a circular argument.
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LTC John Wilson
when respect is shown there ares no conflicts, just agreement to disagree and move on.
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GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad
Damn! We're not there yet? Do you guys think we should stop for directions? :-)
Sgt Richard Buckner
SGT Anthony Rossi
SPC Charles Brown
Sgt Richard Buckner
SGT Anthony Rossi
SPC Charles Brown
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SPC Charles Brown
Nope, we know where we are going, as long as we aren't following a 2nd LT with a compass and a map.
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Because, it appears, religion in America, and Around the World (with the advent of the mass media world we are in), have decided to go the political route. That is, the way they gain ground and members is putting down the others. This is really nothing new, but I think the media frenzy we have these days, makes it more intense and nonstop.
Religions often put down other faiths to prop up their own perspective. I have experienced that personally with the various church's on military posts.
This is Frustrating, as in America, we have a core value of religious freedom, which we espouse, but we don't really live that...
Religions often put down other faiths to prop up their own perspective. I have experienced that personally with the various church's on military posts.
This is Frustrating, as in America, we have a core value of religious freedom, which we espouse, but we don't really live that...
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as long as you dont try to force your god and your religion on me or any other american citizen...I have no problem...God does not belong in the congress...he doesnot belong in our laws...
you want "in god we trust" on our money? sure...I have no issue with that.
wanna say "so help me god"...so, I have no problem with that, either...
wanna tell women they are bad and committing murder when they have an abortion because your "god" says so...I now have an issue
wanna deny services to people of different sexes, religions, genders and races because "god made adam and eve, not adam and steve" then...we have a problem...
so, in essence...keep your god to your self...and Ill keep my heathenistic, atheism to myself...deal?
you want "in god we trust" on our money? sure...I have no issue with that.
wanna say "so help me god"...so, I have no problem with that, either...
wanna tell women they are bad and committing murder when they have an abortion because your "god" says so...I now have an issue
wanna deny services to people of different sexes, religions, genders and races because "god made adam and eve, not adam and steve" then...we have a problem...
so, in essence...keep your god to your self...and Ill keep my heathenistic, atheism to myself...deal?
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It's human nature. I was an atheist for a long time exactly because of this sort of behavior from Christians. Then I realized people are messy and usually don't quite make it to where they should be.
I think it's worth noting as well that there is a difference between Atheists and Anti-theists. Dawkins is an asshole, no matter how you look at it. Neil Degrasse Tyson is not.
I think it's worth noting as well that there is a difference between Atheists and Anti-theists. Dawkins is an asshole, no matter how you look at it. Neil Degrasse Tyson is not.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
Sgt Richard Buckner, oooh that's a hard question. The easy answer is "God got ahold of me" and while I honestly believe that, I don't find it all that helpful. haha
In part it was being around people who took their faith seriously but didn't conflate it with external things like political positions. Their faith influenced their politics, but there was no "being a Christian means voting [Party]" garbage.
It was being exposed to guys like Pete Enns and Biologos that rationally tackled the problem of interpreting 2,000 year old texts literally and in competition with modern scientific understanding.
It was also seeing people have their lives radically changed by encounters with God. It's easy to write off someone shouting babble or falling on the ground. It's another thing entirely to watch a drug addict or violent alcoholic completely change direction in a radical moment.
It was seeing the Nickel Mines Amish welcome the mother of the man who murdered their daughters into their community as a radical act of forgiveness. Or Mary Johnson's willingness to forgive, embrace and even become involved in the life of the young man who murdered her son. Both acts were faith-driven and both resulted in overwhelmingly positive outcomes
I also spent a lot of time reading C.S. Lewis. As a converted Atheist, he hit a lot of the things I had questions about. He also applies excellent rational logic without being so deeply enamored with it that he eschews beauty, emotion and human honesty.
I could go on and on, but really, at the end of the day, I started wondering if the awe I experienced while looking out at the universe was really just a biological reaction or if there was something more to the human disposition towards beauty and wonder. I wondered if the human need for rightness and justice coupled with a value of mercy were evolutionary/social constructs or something else. Eventually, I decided that Jesus was the kind of guy I could get behind and that the faith claims were at least plausible. It was all downhill from there.
In part it was being around people who took their faith seriously but didn't conflate it with external things like political positions. Their faith influenced their politics, but there was no "being a Christian means voting [Party]" garbage.
It was being exposed to guys like Pete Enns and Biologos that rationally tackled the problem of interpreting 2,000 year old texts literally and in competition with modern scientific understanding.
It was also seeing people have their lives radically changed by encounters with God. It's easy to write off someone shouting babble or falling on the ground. It's another thing entirely to watch a drug addict or violent alcoholic completely change direction in a radical moment.
It was seeing the Nickel Mines Amish welcome the mother of the man who murdered their daughters into their community as a radical act of forgiveness. Or Mary Johnson's willingness to forgive, embrace and even become involved in the life of the young man who murdered her son. Both acts were faith-driven and both resulted in overwhelmingly positive outcomes
I also spent a lot of time reading C.S. Lewis. As a converted Atheist, he hit a lot of the things I had questions about. He also applies excellent rational logic without being so deeply enamored with it that he eschews beauty, emotion and human honesty.
I could go on and on, but really, at the end of the day, I started wondering if the awe I experienced while looking out at the universe was really just a biological reaction or if there was something more to the human disposition towards beauty and wonder. I wondered if the human need for rightness and justice coupled with a value of mercy were evolutionary/social constructs or something else. Eventually, I decided that Jesus was the kind of guy I could get behind and that the faith claims were at least plausible. It was all downhill from there.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SGT Jeremiah B., I do believe your testimony is perhaps one of the most beautiful and touching personal journeys of faith that I have read in a long, long time. Thank you for sharing!
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Capt Mark Strobl
SGT Jeremiah B. We took different paths to the same destination. I really appreciate your insight(s) here. Great Post!
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I cannot figure it out. Normally, when a person is comfortable and confident in their own position, and happy to be who they are, they can discuss their own position and contrarian positions without emotion, condescension, or antagonism. When I see the threads become antagonistic, especially in RP, I think it's self-defeating and unprofessional.
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Suspended Profile
Every moderately sized group of people inevitably includes d*****bags
SPC Charles Brown
Not to mention that those d*****bags who do these things to bring negative impact on the Christian religions are the d*****baggiest.
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I think it is because (and this is not limited to discussions of faith) we have become so polarized that many seem to think the constitution guarantees freedom from hearing anything that might offend them.
And in some cases it may be because some Christians have tried to persuade them to believe exactly like them.
And in some cases it may be because some Christians have tried to persuade them to believe exactly like them.
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COL Ted Mc
Capt (Join to see) - Captain; I have absolutely no issues with some Christians (or Jews [or Muslims {or Sikhs <or --[fill in the blank]__>}])trying to persuade me to believe exactly like they believe.
If they get overly obnoxious then there is always the final recourse of "God wants me to believe exactly what I believe and I don't think that either of us should be going against God's Will. Don't you agree?".
That leaves the person who is trying to convert me to "God's Will" having to argue that the only way to comply with "God's Will" is to go against "God's Will".
At that point it is generally appropriate to put on the plastic raincoat and face shield to protect against being splashed by exploding brains.
If they get overly obnoxious then there is always the final recourse of "God wants me to believe exactly what I believe and I don't think that either of us should be going against God's Will. Don't you agree?".
That leaves the person who is trying to convert me to "God's Will" having to argue that the only way to comply with "God's Will" is to go against "God's Will".
At that point it is generally appropriate to put on the plastic raincoat and face shield to protect against being splashed by exploding brains.
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Capt (Join to see)
I usually do not have issues with folks trying to persuade me either. However, some go a little beyond the realm of considerate behavior. And some tend to belittle anyone who has a different belief.
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The door goes both ways on this one. I personally have never told anyone to give up God, but multiple times in my life I have been told by complete strangers I am going to hell.
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SSG (ret) William Martin
CPT (Join to see), Those people were wrong. They shouldn't have told your that you are going to hell. Its really none of their business.
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SGT Jimmy Carpenter
I had an NCO in my unit that was deeply religious and he used to tell me all the time that I was going to hell because of my tattoos. He'd say "your body is a temple, you shouldn't desecrate it." I'd tell him "you're right, my body is a temple and I've got to live in it so I'll decorate it however I want." Then he'd usually end it by telling me I'm going to hell.
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