Posted on Mar 24, 2016
Why do we tend to refer to our Grades instead of our Rank?
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CAPOC CSM Running visited my unit last Battle Assembly and among his points made was the fact that we are "Sergeants, Staff Sergeants, Sergeants First Class...not E's" He expounded this point with the observation that E-5, E-6..., is just what is on our LES to know how much we get paid.
His point was that NCO's need to take back our Rank and live up to the values of being Sergeants, not E's.
His point was that NCO's need to take back our Rank and live up to the values of being Sergeants, not E's.
Posted in these groups: 
Customs and Courtesies
NCOs
Customs and Courtesies NCOs
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 54
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I am confused with Air Force rank structure when it comes to E-6 and above and my work sometimes we DET to Air Force bases and once you they get to E-7 it comes with a Diamond or not, so I am confused to what to call them. I agree with most people the Army should call them by what there title is SGT, SSGT, SFC, etc.... The Marines are doing it the right way, and they Navy its usually by what our job is or MOS like me AO1(Aviation Ordnanceman First Class Petty Officer) E-6, but there are times in the Navy the you call someone E-4 Doe or what every there ranks is because they deserve to be called that for whatever reason.
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Even in a Joint unit I would use rank. When explaining someone else I would say "Air Force Master Sergeant Smith called", no confusion there, and it was never a big deal.
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I was a SSGT and I was an SSGT. But, one of me outranked the other. 6 to 5.
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SP5 Hank Vandenburgh PhD
You date to the early 60s, then. I remember when they had E-5 SSGs, and they were required to make E-6, but got no stripe when they did.
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Capt (Join to see)
SP5 Hank Vandenburgh PhD - I don't remember that. I was in the Air Force then. I was a SSgt E-5 in the Air Force from May 1964 until April 1967. Later I was a Ssgt E-6 in the Army Reserve (from 1978 until sometime in the early 80s.) I don't remember when I was promoted.
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SGT Jerrold Pesz
SP5 Hank Vandenburgh PhD - Very true. As I mentioned earlier even in the late sixties there were lots of those people still around. Many master sergeant E-7's retired without ever getting promoted to E-8.
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With all the fat sloppy undisciplined soldiers and NCO's you want to whine about this? The entire NCO corps needs to grow a pair and take back their authority and pride! It makes me cringe every time I see a Pvt/Spc tell a NCO to " Fuck off"! No self respect or mutual respect left!
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1SG (Join to see)
Hey...I am just passing along a message received from my CSM and thought it might make a good topic of conversation. What whining are you referring to?
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Must be an Army thing, never heard this from USAF, Marine, or Navy NCOs
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I have never heard anyone refer to pay grade, unless it was "SGT Singleton, E5 type."
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Worked in the joint service environment for many years. Use of E and O grades from time to time is useful because there isn't clear rank equivalency among the Services. The divergence between the land and sea services is greatest in the enlisted grades. The Air Force, Army, and Marines are the same in the officer grades (all Lieutenant Colonels are O-5s, but some O-5s are Commanders). Use of grades is useful when regulations specify certain privileges or benefits based on pay grade. For example, the household good weight allowance is pay-grade based.
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I asked this question a long time ago and a lot of people misunderstood or didn't agree with it.
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/pay-grade-vs-rank-title
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/pay-grade-vs-rank-title
Pay Grade Vs. Rank/Title | RallyPoint
How do you feel about SMs, especially Leaders, addressing or referring to someone by pay grade instead of rank or position? Are you guilty of it? Do you correct SMs on it? If you read the post SSG Joaquin Goicoechea wrote, you may understand my post better: "I am in passing and I over hear SSG A speaking to SSG B about a SSG C and instead of using his rank they refer to SSG C as "that E6". If this in fact is what you are...
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Your sergeant major could have made his point a little stronger by including corporals in the discussion.
Authority goes with the rank, pay and pay-related benefits go with the numeric grade. It's a distinction just as subtly important as the difference between being a soldier and an employee.
Authority goes with the rank, pay and pay-related benefits go with the numeric grade. It's a distinction just as subtly important as the difference between being a soldier and an employee.
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