Posted on Feb 15, 2018
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Why do you think there are so many school shootings now as opposed to say 25 to 30 years ago? We all know that guns can’t shoot themselves, so obviously that is not the problem in my opinion. I honestly believe that there is a direct correlation between the rise of school shootings and the taking of God out of the classroom, and kids not getting a well deserved a** whooping. Thoughts on this?
Posted in these groups: Activeshooter Active ShooterOriginal Crime
Edited 8 y ago
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SGT Jamarl Jones
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Because we are raising absolute monsters that are capable and willing to murder innocent people...
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SGT Jamarl Jones
SGT Jamarl Jones
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You're right! We tell these kids that they are just sophisticated chimpanzees and then we act surprised when they act like savage animals....
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How come school shootings are such a rare occurrence in countries that are more secular than the United States if "taking God out of the classroom" is the reason for the increase?
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That looks like a Non Sequitur argument to me.
I read the Bible up to the Book of Job. That was enough for me.
PO2 Mario Lofaro
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Edited 8 y ago
There are so many shootings because there are really very few. What's worse, is any shooting that stops or ends the shooter is not reported by government run or millionaire/billionaire owned mainstream media.
This is the lefts' agenda to get us to eventually disarm. Which, most of us won't allow.
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SSgt James Harvey
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I've been listening and reading all day, people wondering what we can do about school shootings. They blame the NRA, or the style of gun among a host of other things. Well here is my take on it. WE are all to blame, not the kid, even though he did pull the trigger. I'm not giving him a pass, the thing with freedom is a little thing called personal responsibility. It is us who hold the ultimate responsibility by tolerating things that would never have been accepted when we were 17,18 or 19. You can't discipline your kids or it's abuse. You can't talk about morality because it's not your place to decide what's right and wrong. They've succeeded in removing G*d from our schools, and now they're trying to take him out of our lives. There is no justice in the justice system, it's a continual revolving door. You CAN NOT be a parent and always be your kids best friend, sometimes you have to lay down the law. We carried our guns in our trucks when I was in school and no one was ever shot, because our parents taught us, sometimes painfully, the difference between right and wrong, something recent generations seem to have forgot, and we get kids who think they are entitled to $15/hr for flipping burgers, or the $200,000 job right out of high school. Yeah, it was the kid who pulled the trigger, but it was our "tolerant" society that failed the kid.
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CW3 Kevin Storm
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All incorrect IMHO. It has to do with the individual getting attention for what they did. If the media never reported another shooters name, no one would know who they are. I honestly believe this would reduce the violence.
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SPC Erich Guenther
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I think it is a chain. 1 Stagnant Wages and gridlocked government make people angry about immigration and a host of other issues. 2. Social Media tends to inflame people more and there are some (witness this website) that cannot handle Social Media by remaining civil. 3. Increasing congestion on a Interstate Highway system falling apart in places......road rage. 4. More and more people turning away from family values and God.......which will change but is en vogue now.
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SPC Erich Guenther
SPC Erich Guenther
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PO2 David Dunlap - They have since institutionalized his younger brother. I guess Satan runs in the family......huh?
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CW2 Electronic Warfare Technician
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Honestly, more are reported and on the news than there used to be, especially with social media and instant alerts on phones. It is more talked about and spread than it used to be.
Taking God out of the classroom has nothing to do with anything. That goes to the fact that there are other religions out there and we can't favor a specific one, so it's out. Religion may help some people "be good", but it may drive others to do horrible things, others to not go to school, and others to cry and whine that they aren't represented. Religion is a personal thing, not a public one. We also used to have guns in schools but they've been taken out as well (school rifle and pistol teams - it was a competitive sport)
Education is what is needed. The plans for active shooters in school suck. They. Suck. Many call for all students to gather in a corner or closet, which makes a very easy target as well as multiple casualties from less rounds fired.
Many people wish to ban guns. That's like taking painkillers for a broken leg. The problem is still there, but you feel better. Remember Columbine? Guns and.... a propane tank, they were planning on more than just shooting. If we ban guns, then the bad guys will do a few things: 1. still use guns. 2. use knives, bats, etc... 3. open up one of a ton of books and articles, go to their local Walgreens, Lowes, and/or pool supply store and make some serious HME and that'll be a whole lot worse than a shooting.
Our mental health system is very lacking. It needs improvement, and drugging everyone with anti-psychotics isn't the answer. Institutions help people, we can't institutionalize the severely mentally ill who want to shoot people, but we can fill the overfull prison system with weed dealers.
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PO2 David Dunlap - I think you need to take some emotion out of the discussion. 1. I have read the bible, I feel I should be knowledgeable on something if I am going to be able to discuss it. There's no need to attack me about this. I understand you are very proud and into your religion, that doesn't mean you should force it on me. Inspiration is not authoring. Plenty of people have been inspired by LSD but that doesn't mean LSD wrote a book.
As for truth, the word itself involves undeniable proof. There is no proof (yes actual proof, not belief) for the existence of god, so, unless it can be proven to me, I will not waste my time. I do not need a book or fear of hell to tell me to be a good person, not kill, steal, or commit adultery. I choose not to do those things out of being a human being and a member of society.
It is an argument that will go on for time. You count the bible as proof, I do not. That means we agree to disagree and that is that. I do not wish for you to give up your faith, just like I don't wish for you to force it on me.

Some parts of the bible as we know it were written just before the year 1000, so my statement was true, yes the old testament may be as old as 3000 years, but it was still written by man, translated into 1000 languages by man, and passed down and altered by different factions of men. Without reproduceable events.
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PO2 David Dunlap - OK, the sun isn't a planet - it's a star, and it's called fusion, not burning, hydrogen is being fused into helium, no oxygen needed. One day it will burn out, because there won't be enough gravity to fuse iron atoms together. It has been around for over 4 billion years, and will continue for like 4-8 billion more.
Exact copy, it had to be translated didn't it? Things get lost in translation. Yes, there was a copy of the book of Isaiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls, that doesn't prove anything. There's a dictionary on my desk, does that make Merriam Webster a gospel? What about ll the gospels that aren't in the bible? The stories the Church specifically left out because it wasn't "enough of their idea of the story of Jesus", more were left out than made it in. So, yeah the bible has its flaws.
But to you, the Bible is perfect, and the one word, the truth. And that's fine for you. Use it, live by it, it works for you, provides you guidance, so keep on it. Just don't force it on others. Every single person has the freedom to choose THEIR OWN religion (or lack of), the one they feel is right for them, which, and this may hurt, may or may not be Christianity.
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CW2 Electronic Warfare Technician
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No need to get snarky, it's a simple discussion. Don't take things so seriously.
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SPC David Willis - We don't need to poke fun at his choices. It's his right to believe anything he wants. Looking at this entire discussion has shown that he is very passionate about his religion and his beliefs and is very set in his ways. Nothing we say will change that. The Constitution allows a person to choose their religion and beliefs, it's not my place to try to change that, and in my experience, they won't if I try. Beliefs are deeply rooted and require a LOT to change. There's no sense in arguing over it, especially religion vs atheism, the two types of people just don't see things the same way to even talk about it and understand each other properly.
The best we can do is look at a topic, present facts, and educate each other on those facts. If someone chooses to discuss other things, well we should stay on topic and not jack somebody's thread.
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SGT James Bertram
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Perhaps we need to do a little research. School shootings go back to the 1800's. This isn't s new phenomenon at all. To me, it's directly related to bullying. If you weren't bullied in school, you can't possibly understand. I was bullied in 9th grade. In Catholic school. Once I kicked his ass, it stopped. But if I hadn't it probably would've continued. I was depressed. My mother had died of cancer just a year or two earlier and it changed my outlook on life and my bigger picture of the world in general. I questioned everything that I had been taught. By the time I graduated high school, I was a full on Atheist. A year later I joined the Army. I served 15 years, until my body couldn't do the job I was being paid to do and I got out. I give this information only so you understand where my point of view comes from.

I honestly believe this epidemic is getting worse because of ACCESS to weapons. It also has to do with kids/teens not having access to help. When you are being bullied, even your friends don't know what to do. Kids and teens that are being bullied need someone they can talk to and that can help to make the pain go away.

It used to be, if you stood up to a bully, they have you respect. These days, if you stand up to a bully, they feel like you have disrespected them and they make it worse.
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I agree that bullying is a major problem and probably contributed, but you definitely can’t just blame that. There are a lot of people that are bullied, but they don’t go on shooting sprees.
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There was also no internet, global news, 24 hr news outlets, major news networks, and only like 7 TV stations at the time. So there was a lot less coverage of what was happening in the schools and more of things like USSR, Korean War, Coup in Iran, and Brown v Board of ed.
Just because you never heard of something doesn't mean it never happened.
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Shootings are nothing new, there's just more press and access to information. First recorded one in what would be the US was in 1764, 10 dead.
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SPC David Willis
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I'm not sure it has anything to do with society. Folks used to go to arenas and watch people fight each other to the death for fun, leave and visit a prostitute legally. Immorality is not a 21st century issue.
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SPC David Willis
SPC David Willis
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PO2 David Dunlap - Ha oh boy. I love being told I was raised a certain way by people who don't know me or my family. My generation is not in charge. Yours is, so if there is a problem with how things are run please look to your own peers. Also I never said its the same today as it was in the 50s but if you do want to compare generations at least ours has desegregated schools and isn't freaking out trying to black ball people for their political views.
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SPC David Willis
SPC David Willis
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PO2 David Dunlap - Hmmm ok and who taught my parents how to parent? Im sure your grandparents were shocked at things like simple rock and roll and women showing their ankles. God I hope Im not cranky and crotchety when Im old.
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SPC David Willis
SPC David Willis
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PO2 David Dunlap - Immorality is relative and subjective, its impossible to compare what you view as immoral to what your grandparents thought was immoral. Think about this. Hitler went to hell for killing millions of innocents we all understand that. But if hell is a collection of all people across all of time he is going to be down there with some people who were alive during a time when killing innocents due to religious beliefs wasn't frowned upon. He may share the same 7th circle of hell with a guy who was condemned for eating a hamburger on a Saturday. Youre generation was the most immoral that your parents had ever seen, until you had kids... and it will always just go on and on.
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CPL Crystal Pettway, MBA
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School shootings since the first of the new year....................
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CW2 Electronic Warfare Technician
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That graphic shows, it's not that school shootings are new or rare, just that the media decides what a big deal is in this country and what isn't. How many of those have we actually heard about? Plus it only encompasses school shootings and not others. Why is a non school shooting fine but a school is so much worse? It is still innocent people being murdered.

The media exploded about Parkland, did they say a word about Dearborn, the Bronx, or Oxon Hill? This is the first I've heard about them.
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LCDR Robert S.
LCDR Robert S.
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Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. - I don't have a link for the graphic, but the source of the data is everytownreasearch.org - and a reasonable assessment of the data, and the graphic, is that it's sensationalistic garbage intended to influence, rather than inform. Three of the more egregious examples are the "school shootings" in St Johns, MI, Maplewood, MN, and Denison, TX. In the first, a guy committed suicide in the parking lot of a *former* school, that had been closed permanently at the end of the previous school year. In the second, a third grader caused a negligent discharge of a uniformed officer's holstered weapon. In the third, students at a college were getting instruction on a firearms simulator - when the instructor (a law enforcement officer) left the room, taking the simulator weapon with him, a student picked up what she *thought* was the simulator but was actually the instructor's service weapon and fired it at a target on the wall.
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LCDR Robert S.
LCDR Robert S.
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CW2 (Join to see) - local media covered all of them, but most of them weren't national news because shots fired during an altercation in a parking lot after a basketball game, with no one being injured (Dearborn), a shot being fired into the floor when a gun fell out of a student's bag (Bronx), and a student shot in a mugging in a school parking lot in the evening (Oxon Hill) aren't the sorts of things that make national news.

So, as a followup to what I said in my previous comment, a number of these are incidents that only a person who is trying an anti-gun agenda would classify as a "school shooting". To meet Everytown's criteria for a "school shooting", all that's required is a firearm being discharged, or a bullet ending up, on school grounds (and they include colleges and universities), and for it to make the news. I'm sure, if there were a college somewhere that had a rifle range, and Everytown found a news story about weekly practices by the college shooting team, they'd report that as a weekly school shooting at that college.
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CW2 Electronic Warfare Technician
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LCDR Robert S. - Good point, even with 24/hr world wide media, we are still only shown what major news desires based on their own political alignment. What we can see with some research is that, sadly, school shootings aren't that rare, but also aren't a "new" thing. It's happened for a long time.
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