Posted on Sep 8, 2016
Why does each service branch have repeated functions? Inf., Avn., Boats, Med, HR/Pay, etc? Save $ with one branch with specialized functions?
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Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 10
Sorry, Major, but no Air Force fixed-wing pilot is ever going to land on a carrier.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
Also Doolittle, but they only Launched from a carrier and they were ARMY Air corp!
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Tradition is not reason enough to waste our military capabilities. With a smaller military and budget concerns, it is important to maximize where troops are placed.
Why does each service need its own aviation, medical service, payroll system, personnel system, logistics, transportation, etc.? Why have infantry, armor and artillery in the Marines and the Army? Why have boats in the Army, Marines and Navy? I am sure there are many more examples.
Here is my proposal:
Consolidate all the branches into one military (Department of Defense) service with one medical, human resource, pay, supply and other support systems. All support positions (hospitals, supplies, finance, personnel) will follow one system. This will reduce the number of troops needed to fill those support positions by probably about one-quarter to one-third of the current level. These positions can be moved to the combat arms.
A lot of the permanent garrison positions could be civilians, thus freeing up more troop numbers for the combat arms.
There would be one branch of infantry, armor, artillery, aviation, naval assets instead of being spread across all services. Internally, there can be specialized units for unique missions.
Instead of each service having its own special operators, have one the can also have specialized functions internally.
Consolidate bases into about seven joint locations; one forward-operating base each in the Pacific and Europe; one each, west coast, east coast, southern US / Texas (all with lots of training / maneuver space, private airstrips and docks for ships); central US and somewhere in the northern Midwest (all with lots of training / maneuver space, and private airstrips).
Being consolidated assets, there would be less time needed for emergency coordination as procedures would be internal to that location and under one commander.
This would also reduce the number of senior officers (specifically, flag officers), the need for a Joint Chiefs of Staff and the number of people needed at the Pentagon.
Another cost savings would be in the minimized number of types of uniforms, awards, accoutrements, and Service Schools / ROTC programs.
I am sure I am overlooking many other areas. I am also sure that there are tons of costs involved with such a transition.
I look forward to the responses I get.
Why does each service need its own aviation, medical service, payroll system, personnel system, logistics, transportation, etc.? Why have infantry, armor and artillery in the Marines and the Army? Why have boats in the Army, Marines and Navy? I am sure there are many more examples.
Here is my proposal:
Consolidate all the branches into one military (Department of Defense) service with one medical, human resource, pay, supply and other support systems. All support positions (hospitals, supplies, finance, personnel) will follow one system. This will reduce the number of troops needed to fill those support positions by probably about one-quarter to one-third of the current level. These positions can be moved to the combat arms.
A lot of the permanent garrison positions could be civilians, thus freeing up more troop numbers for the combat arms.
There would be one branch of infantry, armor, artillery, aviation, naval assets instead of being spread across all services. Internally, there can be specialized units for unique missions.
Instead of each service having its own special operators, have one the can also have specialized functions internally.
Consolidate bases into about seven joint locations; one forward-operating base each in the Pacific and Europe; one each, west coast, east coast, southern US / Texas (all with lots of training / maneuver space, private airstrips and docks for ships); central US and somewhere in the northern Midwest (all with lots of training / maneuver space, and private airstrips).
Being consolidated assets, there would be less time needed for emergency coordination as procedures would be internal to that location and under one commander.
This would also reduce the number of senior officers (specifically, flag officers), the need for a Joint Chiefs of Staff and the number of people needed at the Pentagon.
Another cost savings would be in the minimized number of types of uniforms, awards, accoutrements, and Service Schools / ROTC programs.
I am sure I am overlooking many other areas. I am also sure that there are tons of costs involved with such a transition.
I look forward to the responses I get.
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SN Greg Wright
I agree that tradition is not a good enough reason...but it IS the reason it's never going to happen. I like the idea for support stuff like admin/medical, etc. But how are you going to teach Air Force to storm a beach like the Marines? Or Army guys to fight Naval vessels? No, I think the idea is entirely sound...but will never happen.
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SCPO (Join to see)
Brilliant concept, Vance, something that a vast number of cities/counties are doing across the nation. Combining police/sheriff crime labs. Combining jails. Combining vehicle maimtenance. Etc., etc., etc. I think you idea has tons of merit. Getting two green, one blue, and one black Class A uniform to agree is your first hurdle.
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TSgt (Join to see)
How about starting with basic training! Have a single basic training for all military with a focus on physical development and military culture (in general). Based on the assessment at basic training, recruits can move on to other further training that either focuses on developing the functional skills before indocterinating the branch culture.
Also, if we have a single basic that focuses on physical development, imagine the opportunities that civilians could pay to endure and make significant gains in short period of time. Say a 30 day regiment. The DOD could justify it as necessary to ensure national readiness due to the rise in obesity in todays youth as well as todays skilled workers.
Also, if we have a single basic that focuses on physical development, imagine the opportunities that civilians could pay to endure and make significant gains in short period of time. Say a 30 day regiment. The DOD could justify it as necessary to ensure national readiness due to the rise in obesity in todays youth as well as todays skilled workers.
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It's very practical. Each service has its own operating environment which requires a unique philosophy, doctrine, culture, policies and procedures. Each service has optimized its procedures to maximize effectiveness in their own environment.
Consider HR/Pay types. Would they all be trained in the procedures used both aboard ship and also in the desert? Would they have to learn 4 sets of regulations?
Different procedures make for a different mindset: Air Force pilots use mile-long runways and gradually settle down on the glide path until touchdown halfway down the runway. Navy pilots won't put a foot of runway behind them; they'll put it down on the numbers. Different policies: In the Navy, if there is a fire, all hands attack the fire until Damage Control arrives. In the Air Force, all hands evacuate and wait for the Fire Dept. Different capabilities: A common specialty is dermatology. In the Army, derm doctors are needed right up front, as combat wounds almost always involve the skin. But how many doctors can you fit on a ship? In combat: The services don't have the same radios or the same language.
Importantly, each Division commander or Wing commander has under his personal command all the resources required to prosecute war without needing some other commander to provide supply, transportation, housing, etc. Very effective and efficient in war. Don't change it.
Consider HR/Pay types. Would they all be trained in the procedures used both aboard ship and also in the desert? Would they have to learn 4 sets of regulations?
Different procedures make for a different mindset: Air Force pilots use mile-long runways and gradually settle down on the glide path until touchdown halfway down the runway. Navy pilots won't put a foot of runway behind them; they'll put it down on the numbers. Different policies: In the Navy, if there is a fire, all hands attack the fire until Damage Control arrives. In the Air Force, all hands evacuate and wait for the Fire Dept. Different capabilities: A common specialty is dermatology. In the Army, derm doctors are needed right up front, as combat wounds almost always involve the skin. But how many doctors can you fit on a ship? In combat: The services don't have the same radios or the same language.
Importantly, each Division commander or Wing commander has under his personal command all the resources required to prosecute war without needing some other commander to provide supply, transportation, housing, etc. Very effective and efficient in war. Don't change it.
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Not too sure I agree with that idea. Aviation is one complicated branch. In the Marines, they put their own pilots on the ground with the grunts just so they know how to communicate with the pilots. The Army wasn't even allowed to have the Mohawks because the Air Force got some Freudian complex about letting us have our own fixed wing toys. there isn't one airframe in the armed forces that is universal across all the branches. It takes a good 10 years MINMUM to be able to contribute to a complicated aviation deployment discussion and that figure only figures units with only 2 different airframes. The Marines have ancient helicopters that have been upgraded so much that they are hardly recognizable from their initial design. The logistics of an all inclusive aviation branch would need hundreds of connexes just to handle the common hardware and the special tools and parts would require a division of truck drivers to move.
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MAJ Vance Fleming
And that is why I ask "why?" Great reply! I don't understand the complexities of each branch so thanks for the insight. Would be easier to have fewer aircraft types (keep the most reliable fighters - F-somethings, cargo and helicopters and scrap the ancient or overly expensive / complex).
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SFC Mark Merino
We all have different missions and require specialty toys. I don't even think that cooks could be universal. God knows I wouldn't want a Marine feeding my gullet. Those crazy kids are used to eating the ass out of a dead rhino and asking for seconds.
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SrA Ted Smith
Technically there is one service, the military reporting to Sec of Defense who reports directly to the CIC the president. The branches are the specialized functions. While the newest branch, the Air Force, might at first glance be the odd man out as both the navy, including marines and the army use air craft (including helicopter) for tactical support and air defense the mission of the Air Force is primarily strategic. The paygrades are the same even though the corresponding rank might have a different title and everyone is governed by the UMJ.
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Good Damn Question. I don't have a good answer. I give a damn what Uniform you wear as long as I get Paid and get Fed.
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Your suggestion has lots of merit. the issue is as always control. And the SecDef is currently busy helping transforming America and its military arm.
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Holy SHIT! The Air Force has boats!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_United_States_Air_Force
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_United_States_Air_Force
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List of ships of the United States Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Starting in 1957 the US Air Force began operating a small fleet of Missile Range Instrumentation Ships to support missile test ranges. They were designated "ORV" for Ocean Range Vessel. They used the ship name prefix "USAF" (e.g.: USAF Coastal Crusader (ORV-16)).
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I don't disagree. Logistics is logistics. Medical is medical. CAS and short range sorties are different than transport and heavy bombing. Why do we have Marine air wings when the Navy is there? DFAS is a good example of consolidation. Heck, the
Navy took over the obsolete Costal Artillery mission. Go figure.
Navy took over the obsolete Costal Artillery mission. Go figure.
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Love this question. While some functions may be too specialized for the individual branches such as aviation or infantry, other functions would just make sense to render as a shared-services corps such as medical/dental, chaplain, or legal.
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Why do we even have different branches of the Military?
Why do we even have a Military? We got a shitload of nukes just gathering dust....
Why do we even have a Military? We got a shitload of nukes just gathering dust....
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MAJ Vance Fleming
Nukes are good when necessary, more of a deterrent to logical countries, but would you want to be boots on the ground AFTER we nuked a country? Not this guy!
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MSG Pat Colby
MAJ Vance Fleming - Well Sir, Like I always told my wife while raising our 3 Kidz, "Never threaten anything you aren't willing to back up."
Drawing "red lines" doesn't work. Some cultures only understand the language of violence. OK. Maybe we need an Air Corps to strategically bomb and strafe the living shit out of certain areas. Start with mecca. Level that shit.
Why is it we have the technology to identify from satellites how many hot dogs I have on my grill, yet ISIS can have fucking parades and we do nothing?
Drawing "red lines" doesn't work. Some cultures only understand the language of violence. OK. Maybe we need an Air Corps to strategically bomb and strafe the living shit out of certain areas. Start with mecca. Level that shit.
Why is it we have the technology to identify from satellites how many hot dogs I have on my grill, yet ISIS can have fucking parades and we do nothing?
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