Why does the Army appear to have a discipline issue with the lower enlisted ranks?

From all the talk I have heard from my time in the Navy we had a slightly similar issue. For us the East Coast tended to be more strict, disciplined and tighter on the rules than the West Coast Navy. The same could also be said for the Big Navy (Aircraft Carriers) they tended to be more of a corporate structure and less tolerant of breaking the rules while at the same time you were just another face in the crowd. Conversely in the Small Navy ( Destoyers, Crusiers, Frigates) we where a lot less formal and a little more personal. We could be more understanding but if you stepped out of line everybody knew about. Also we had smaller groups with clear line for the chain of command which I think allowed us to handing things more directly and in house then a larger group of people like the army. CO->XO->Department head-> Specialty Officer (Main Propulsion Assistant, Damage Contol Assistant)->Division Officer. Command Master Chief (E-9)-> Departmental Leading Chief Petty Officer (LCPO) (E-8)-> Divison LCPO(E-7)-> Leading Petty Officer (LPO) (E-6). Also I would say that the rank culture in the Navy is vastly different. E1-3 are generally all treated as the same and you don’t have an E3 bossing and telling E1’s around and if you did people would raise an eyebrow and probably stop you. E4’s aren’t really look at too differently other than a you should know better / get your act together because you’re gonna start being in a real leadership position in the future. E5 is when hey you’re 2nd Class Petty Officer you know what needs to be done and help those bellow you get the job done. E6 your in charge now and if it’s wrong fix it. E7 you’re coming to me because something is really messed up and the Ship is gonna be affected because of it or you can’t find the 1st class.

I've served in the Active duty Marines, Army and reserves Army National Guard, Air Force, Marines. 16 years spanning 1974 to 2004. I have seen the real underbelly of the Service with murders, rapes , assaults. The crime and drug use in the Marines 1974 to 75 was rampant until they cracked down in 1976. Drug testing, dogs etc. I use to escort prisoners
.. mostly murders and worked some in a correctional facility..

It was Rampant in the Guard aswell until the DOD cracked down after the USS Nimitz crash in 1981. The Guard was relaxed and was fueled by drinking and drugs. Many troops were gang members who were given the choice jail or guard. What Mayhem that turned out to be. We had assaults and murders. The Air Force was very relaxed with no problems. The Gulf War era Guard was professional and Active Duty like. The 2003 Army was professional but with super bad behavior by women. The language and sex. Saw some assault and rape aftermath, normally dependent wives playing around at the club while husband is deployed. During my time I have seen or came across some really bad behavior by the Officer Corps. NCO's.. Normally prostitution... Adultry... Sexual harassment..etc.. my behaviour was not the best at times. Thus the CPL rank. But I would conclude that discipline is from the top down and if you give a inch.. human nature will take the mile.

Attitude and behavior reflect leadership. You could ask, “why does the Army (or military, in general) have a discipline issue with the higher enlisted and officer ranks?”

It’s not a simple question, and there isn’t one simple answer. Additionally, it’s not limited to the Army. Having worked primarily in joint environments, it was my experience that the Marines most often confused ‘discipline’ as a synonym for ‘professionalism’ or ‘respect’. However, They don’t mean the same thing. Marines were often the most unprofessional, disrespectful and ultimately, ineffective team members.

Much like headlines with higher ranking folks (across all services) acting ridiculous, headlines involving Marines doing ridiculous sh*t aren’t hard to find. From self-inflicted gutshots to mass roundups at battalion formations, to murdering Soldiers to etc etc, “Marines acting crazy” is an easy, common story to find.

The only thing that the Marines are elite at is instilling the idea in Marines that they are elite. But the Corps absolutely has a discipline issue; as much as any branch of service. They’re just more hyper focused on looking good to support the image. That stated, the Army isn’t perfect. There are a lot of valid answers to the question, and each would warrant their own paper.

A simple one is that as new generations come up in the Services, the older ones find them undisciplined. The WWI guys thought the WWII/Korea guys were undisciplined. The WWII/Korea guys thought the Vietnam guys were undisciplined. The Vietnam guys thought the Gulf war guys were undisciplined. The Gulf War guys thought the GWOT guys are undisciplined. The GWOT guys are going to think The ____ War guys are undisciplined. Etc. Just the nature of the beast. It’s kinda like why parents don’t like their kids’ music. And the Grandparents didn’t like the Parents’ music.

Another simple one is that folks are just more aware of large scale, service wide problems. 20 years ago, if a Marine in DC shot himself in the stomach or if a Soldier in Florida got arrested for drug smuggling, odds are that the average PFC Snuffy wasn’t going to hear about. But in the past few decades, things like 24 hour nonstop news channels and smartphones and the internet have exploded like a Gremlin that ate past midnight. Every transgression, big and small, is available to just about everyone all the time. That makes it harder to diminish, and also makes it appear amplified. Similar to crime statistics in the US. Every statistic indicates that violent crime and mass shootings are at low points, but with heightened, nonstop coverage, it simply seems like they’re getting worse.

Another answer would be as to how you define ‘discipline’. I touched on it previously, but ‘discipline’ isn’t synonymous with ‘respect’ or ‘professionalism’. If I had to ask a service member to drive my car 1000 miles, and get it there in two days with no dents and a full tank of gas, I’d ask a Marine. If I had to ask a service member to drive my Girlfriend 1000 miles, and make sure she gets there in two days with no dents, I would ask any other branch. Who cares if the car gets a few scratches. The girl, I trust. The average Marine, Maybe not so much.

Ultimately, leaders get out what they put in. There has and will always be good/bad, disciplined/undisciplined Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, Airmen. It’s not a new phenomenon. But ultimately, If leaders want more discipline, then leaders need to conduct themselves in a more disciplined manner.

Sorry for getting a bit long winded. Best of luck.

Shoot, I don't know. A lot of the long-timers seem to think so, so while it's anecdotal, and perhaps worthy of a little pinch of salt, I am inclined to listen to what they have to say. I was only in for 8 years between my Active and Reserve time--and that just ended a couple years ago--so I have no actual historical perspective. I would echo what someone else here said when they noted there are differences between the combat and soft-skill MOSs; insofar as what I witnessed. Whether that's an observation that holds across the board or is applicable to, say, just soft-skill MOS Reservists and not Active I don't' know. I do know discipline was very important when I was on Active Duty though.

Just my limited observations. Take 'em for what they're worth.

You're not wrong. And the problem starts with the NCO's that don't enforce the standard, and those NCO's that don't follow the standards.