Posted on May 16, 2022
MAJ Norm Michaels
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This social experiment on soldiers was started in the late 1960s, and it mostly died away in the late 1980s, with the exception of SP4. Is a team leader SP4 any less of a leader than a corporal?
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LTC Jeff Scribner
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Army wants to have "super privates" who are paid more but have no real NCO duties. This may be a head in the sand idea but it does allow for more soldiers to reach pay grade E-4 quickly without becoming a NCO. From time to time the Army has experimented with ways to pay more without requiring the soldier to become a NCO. Most of them have failed and SP4 is the only "Specialist rank" left. Army and soldiers would be better served to pay PFCs more and do away with the rank of SP4. Corporal and above should all be NCOs.
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MAJ Norm Michaels
MAJ Norm Michaels
>1 y
Maybe they should allow E4s and below to stay longer, being professional privates. I remember a few professional SP4s in the early 70s. I remember two SP4s that each had nearly 12 years in the Army. Both kept getting busted back to E4; they each said they could not, nor wanted not, Sergeant Stripes.
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SGT Dick Lindgren
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I was a Spec 4 on the flight line in 1969. They made me a Acting Buck Sgt in charge of the flight line. In 1970 some of us got promoted to E-5’s. They promoted me to a E-5 but wanted me to continue as acting Buck. I said no, if want to fill that slot, I get the strip, if not give the acting Buck title to someone else. There was a lot of responsibility that went with the Buck Sgt strip. I said I would go back to being a crew chief. Well I got the Strip and continued on.
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MSG Lonnie Averkamp
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(Talking out of both sides of my mouth) I don't LIKE the Specialist Grades, but I think that they are good, especially in many technical jobs. In 1970, I was in Basic Training with a man who was drafted and was a Journeyman Plumber. Upon graduation, he was given Sp/5 pins. Should a man with 9 weeks in Service be a Sergeant? No. Does a Journeyman Plumber or Electrician rate E-5? Absolutely!
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SPC Jerry Gobble
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I was a Spec4 in 1959 and my Section Chief was a Spec5, so I believe the "social experiment" started before the late sixties.
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1SG Brian Holt
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I think they did away with SPC 5 through 8 because they thought that warrant officers could fill the void... but like others have said, not everyone can be a good leader.
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SP5 Joseph Coble
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I left the Army with the rank of SP5. They tried to challenge me to re-up and try to make it a hard stripe. I just smiled and said I get paid the same as a Sargent but don’t have to go to command meetings.
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SFC Retired
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Edited 2 y ago
I started my 20+ yrs. in the Army in 1979, had 3 specialist ranks before making SFC, and yet I have no idea what some of you are talking about - in all of my specialist MOS's I had leadership duties, was sent to PNCOC, SNCOIC, SEJPME, etc., and retired as head-NCO of a med battallion section, w/ only my 1SG, CSM and Commander above me in my unit (also had some limited exposure to MI before retiring). How did most of that happen during my specialist ranks if I had no leadership duties or skills? W/ those specilaist ranks I also had to train on the shooting range regularly w/ 45 pistols, M-16s, some M-60s & grenades, ran 5 miles minimum every day but Sundays, had regular BIVACs & field training (not in CONUS)... I'm confused by this ever-recurring subject.
Warriors Forever!
-Ed Boles
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SFC Retired
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Also, I'm aware of "official information" on the dates, but I don't understand how I was promoted to "Spec-6" after 1985 (fact: 1990+) if the practice stopped 1985. Hmmmn...
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SPC Brian Stephens
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A better and more relevant question is why does the Army persist with the rank of Corporal? Why doesn't the Army just promote E-4s who run their own shops to E-5 so they can get not just the authority but the rank too? Why make an E-4 pay NCO Club dues if you are not going to raise his pay to Sergeant?
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CPL T.A. Nelson
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The SPC 4-9 used to be a path for Warrent Officer but now it is a non-leadership role to prepare people to become SGT without a serious qualification of leadership. We need the SPC to go back to what they were meant for and CPL to gain it's importance again...
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SSG Ralph Belander
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It wasn't "started in the 1960s." In WW2 we had technical Sergeants and in WW1 and before we had NCO ranks tied to vocational areas like "Mess", "Motor", "Farrier" "Transport" etc that were identified as specialized, non combat leader skills. The idea of making everyone the same with a simplified rank structure is actually the modern "social experiment" within this discussion.
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LTC Field Artillery Officer
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Cause with no SPC's there would be no E-4 Mafia... MAJ Norm Michaels..!
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CPT Special Forces Officer
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They need more privates of the guard than they need sergeants of the guard.
A corporal is an NCO, but a SP4 is not.
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SPC James Williams
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I had no desire to be an NCO. I had the points to do it, but had no plans on reenlisting, so never went to the board. There were plenty of soldiers that wanted to make a career out of the Army, so why take an NCO slot? That was my thinking.
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SFC Tomaso Santomauro
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Excellent point Sir.
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SSG Brian Carpeneter
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Keeping it really simple Tech ranks would have no authority but would still want to yell bitch and moan at any NCO rank below them. But alas if you were a tech rank the NCO rank automatically outrank you when it comes to troop training and discipline issues in such there is your dilemma. A SGT can tell a SPC8 to go fly a kite if they wanted to.
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LCpl Michael Cappello
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Because they are "Special". So Special.
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SGT Erick Holmes
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Ahhhhh the famous E4. The best rank you can have LOL. I hope they don't change this rank. I think there should be more opportunities for the e4 rank. At the time I was in it was WLC. This shouldnt be a pass or fail it should more of knowledge and training.
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SGM Art Hudson
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Because of the specialization of this rank. all will not be in a leadership position to wear the rank of corporal. So this rank recognizes those in a non-leadership position.
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SSG John C Quigley II
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It is strange that they did away with the Specialist ranks, yet there are many NCO's who are specialists such as Nuclear, Computer Programmers, and for me I was a E-6 supply Sgt. I kind of look at that as a specialty and there are others that might be seen as specialty ranks as well. But like all the nonsense the military has experimented with over the years, this is one more.
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CW2 UH-60 Pilot
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Its roots were actually a Congressional Budget Issue: The Army SP4 and USAF Senior Airman "SRA" Ranks were created to slow down promotions to Sergeant!
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