Posted on May 30, 2015
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Apft
If you are taking an APFT, and roll your ankle during the run, and as a result you run slower to the finish line and fail, should this still count as a failure? I read Chapter 14 of FM 21-20 and the only mention of injuries I could find was that the injury could be annotated in comments box. I feel as thought in this scenario, the APFT test should not be counted against the injured soldier. What are your thoughts?
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SFC 116th Brigade Equal Opportunity Advisor
I don't think there need to be any "provisions" in any Army publication for injuries! I have seen too many Soldiers faking injuries in order to get out of the APFT. The Army publications are written the way they are in order to leave room for each commander to run their organization. All units are not created equal!

In my opinion, it goes back toward leadership. If I have anPT stud scoring 250 or higher and out of the blue they score a 181 then I will try to apply logic and figur out why. Injuries happen and are not predicatable but it's up to leaders to not be cookie cutter leaders. Writing in the comments that the Soldier sustained an injury during the APFT will give the next grader a hint. If we use the paperwork properly, then a pattern can be established for everyone!
SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
10 y
The question remains though. I have also seen injuries during PT tests (shoulder during pushups and knees/shins during runs) that were actual injuries, not faked.

How do we know they were real? Because the soldier went to the Aid Station and proper diagnosis was made.

I have also seen soldiers get injured and nothing was done to see about proper treatment/follow up, ie. they were either forced to continue injured or simply left standing there with a failed APFT.

The point about leadership is valid, but the issue remains when the leadership fails, which is why there should be a provision that addresses this situation.

Aggravating a soldier further because they are forced to continue their APFT injured is not only reckless but it demonstrates that said leadership is more concerned about hitting their numbers than taking care of their soldiers..
MSG Cyber Network Defender
MSG (Join to see)
10 y
MAJ Oberg and SGT Rojas, When I first was reading PV2 Walker's post, the 1st question that popped into my head was, "how can you quantify and qualify an 'injury'?". If such a provision were ever tried, I think it'd quickly be abused as a way to excuse PT failures.
SPC Human Resources Specialist
SPC (Join to see)
10 y
I believe I have seen soldiers who attempt to fake how ever when they go see the PA the PA will be that deciding factor weather or not that person was faking it's too many people out here who think they automatically know when someone is faking if your not a DOC don't assume ask the PA
SFC 116th Brigade Equal Opportunity Advisor
SFC (Join to see)
10 y
SPC Major, that's not the point here. The questions was about provisions. There already are provisions and I have a reason why I think it's a bad idea to add more. If your hurt then go to the DOC but your APFT will still go as a failure. It should be noted that you most likely failed because of injury but nothing more! No "harm" should come to that Soldier but it's still a failure!
LTC Strategy And Policy Advisor
Edited 10 y ago
PV2 Walker, this can be a tough one. I'd first ask what's the difference between an injury and an "owie?" Not exactly a professional term, but one I used to ask my football players. An injury prevents you from completing the mission and is not something that feels better a day or three later. Some injuries can't be faked, while others can. When is a PT failure not a failure? When you pass your APFT with strong scores both before and after the injury. If you barely get by and suddenly have an injury on the test, it doesn't bode well for your credibility, professionalism, or Warrior Ethos.
SSG Skylur Britz
I've seen this happen before.
Good leadership didn't hold it against the soldier (he averaged 250-270) when he was better he took another APFT.

Not so great leadership threw him (different soldier) under the bus.
SPC Clinic Ninja
SPC (Join to see)
10 y
We had a PT stud dislocate his shoulder during a PT test.... Was flagged and lost his P status. Ended up having surgery, and discharged....
SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
Edited 10 y ago
After reading all replies to this question, it saddens me to see such a low level of expectations and trust from the leadership towards their soldiers.

Most here assume that soldiers will fake injuries or will abuse the possibility of having a retest if injured during the APFT.

Somewhere I was taught that soldiers are a reflection of their leadership, so if in everyone else's experiences you have "cheating/abusing" soldiers, that tells me that they have not been taken care of in the first place, or else they wouldn't have to resort to those tactics.

If a soldier claims an injury during the APFT, he/she should be taken to the Aid Station right away and properly diagnosed. If the injury is real, a retest is scheduled and end of story. If the injury is just an owie or faked, then the soldier has failed his/her APFT and a counseling will ensue, and end of story.

No need to assume the worst of soldiers.
CPT Owner
CPT (Join to see)
10 y
I like that response, thanks Sgt.
SSG Linda Holt
SSG Linda Holt
10 y
It's been awhile but, as I recall, that's exactly what happened when someone did fall or sprain something during the test or regular PT. They went to the health clinic, got a "Profile" until they were healed-up and then had a retest. In fact, soldiers were routinely given a retest for failing the APFT even without an injury being involved. I'm pretty sure they had about 90 days to retest
SFC Sexual Assault Response Coordinator (Sarc)
SFC (Join to see)
10 y
SGT Rojas, I agree to an extent what you state. As a Senior Leader I have seen all types of Soldiers come through the ranks and in most cases you will always see lower enlisted who are the ones "faking injuries". I agree with the "direct reflection of their leadership" statement because I use it every time I brief my Soldiers because I don't like childish attitudes.

In my experience, people that fake injuries do not last long in the Army and are clinging to any line of hope before getting to the end of their line and moving out and on. The ARs and the FMs are there to guide, but the only units that have issues like these use the regulation to the T and have little or no common sense and gavre higher echelons that correct this.

Example, there was an E5 in a unit that was malingering and was trying to get out of a PT Test. There was a company APFT conducted and he did not show up as directed. He showed up when they where conducting the H&W (and yes this was a little time ago) and his PSG grabbed the Soldiers needed to conduct the APFT and this E5. He took the APFT but in the second lap out of 4 in the run event he collapsed. The Soldier went to the ER in an ambulance and the COC wanted to flag him. They put in the 705 that he suffered an injury and the he did not complete the run event. When it reached the BN S1 to process the flag the S1 NCOIC rejected the flag, notified the CSM and informed the COC that it cannot be done.

BLUF, every unit is not the same and every Soldier is not the same. Teach, coach and mentor is our job. We have to take care of Soldiers and ensure they are doing right. It is my duty and yours to ensure they are set up for success to be able to take your job in the future and mine.
SGT Jim Z.
I was doing the sit-up event and had a hernia, my 1SG said she was going to throw the test out but when it came to re-enlistment time guess what the command said I was flagged because I failed my record APFT. I agree with you that a legitimate injury that occurs during the APFT should be taken into account and not held against the Soldier. However, the Army does not always use common sense and logic when writing FM and AR.
1SG First Sergeant
1SG (Join to see)
10 y
Doctrine writers cannot take every possible scenario into account. It is on the leadership to apply common sense. If there were a provision about injuries sustained during an APFT, the unfortunate truth is that Soldiers would take advantage of it in an attempt to get over. Either way, you wind up with less than desirable results. Bottom line is that leaders need to do their jobs.
SFC William Farrell
To me it looks like they are making provisions already. When I had to take it we just got down in the sand or the mud or gravel and did what we had to. Now they have artificial grass! Nice.
SSG Linda Holt
SSG Linda Holt
10 y
We also ran in our boots, not sneakers.
SFC William Farrell
SFC William Farrell
10 y
Those were the days my friends. Its a much kinder, softer military today!
SPC Training Room Nco
No. Get injured, see the medic. Medic says you're actually injured, then soldier up, drive on and take it again when you're healed up. I injured my back on the situps during a APFT at Carson (Fell back on a rock), and still ran. Ran slower than all hell, but still passed (if only by seconds). Come to find out, i had chipped one of by vertebrae. the chipped piece is still floating around somewhere back there. It doesnt hurt, so I leave it alone.
MAJ Strategic Plans Officer
I have never understood why an injury is an automatic failure. If a Soldier gets injured in the execution of duty, saddling her/him with a failing grade is hardly expedient in my opinion. It was probably done to discourage cheating, but I will stand by my opinion of it not being expedient
MAJ Anne McGee
The regulations are a guide or framework for leaders to work with; if every single option were covered then there would be no room for leaders to apply discretion to situations.
CPT Owner
If you're on patrol and roll your ankle, you still have to finish the patrol. You're still out there with your team.
It's also written like that to allow commanders to maintain discretion in making decisions. That's a commanders call.

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